[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Isis]

Mafia&Mafia

3 Red Mafia
4 Blue Mafia
2 Masons
8 Vanilla Townies
Nightless. At any time, a Red Mafia may submit a kill by PM. If the named player is mafia, they will die. If the named player is a Mason, nothing will happen. If the named player is VT, the submitter will die.
At any time, a Blue Mafia may submit a kill by PM. If the named player is a Mason, they will die. If the named player is a Mafia, nothing will happen. If the named player is VT, the submitter will die.
Red Mafia win the game and exit the game when they outnumber Vanilla Townies and Blue Mafia combined. Blue Mafia win the game and exit the game when their numbers are tied or better with the red mafia and are tied or better with the town. Town win when all mafia have been eliminated and at least one town aligned player is alive, but lose instead if both mafia groups exited the game.

[Isis]

I like the statistical mindset, but I think that specific solution goes against the original setup idea
The setup seems based around the static locations of the players. Taking that away creates a chaotic not-really-system that just seems less interesting.

I hear this. Maybe make it quasi-static like Deathlist? Things get mutated based on the actions of the previous day but something about the order of the initial rand affects the game every phase.

[Gamma Emerald]

At any time, a Blue Mafia may submit a kill by PM. If the named player is a Mason, they will die. If the named player is a Mason, nothing will happen. If the named player is VT, the submitter will die.

:thonk:

[Isis]

Typos

[Isis]

It's fixed now.

It's a shitpost setup anyway

[Awoo]

You forgot the town win condition.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I think we should do a few runs of that trapdoor setup using the different ideas proposed during the upcoming marathon weekend

[Hoopla]

You might be interested in skimming Deathlist since it was a somewhat similar setup.

i just checked that out. really interesting concept!

[Hoopla]

I like the statistical mindset, but I think that specific solution goes against the original setup idea
The setup seems based around the static locations of the players. Taking that away creates a chaotic not-really-system that just seems less interesting.

this is pretty much my thoughts.

i'm sure there could be more specific tweaks made to ensure a greater likelihood of a balanced scum distribution. but additional complexity to shave off potential outliers seems like an unnecessary trade off at the expense of elegance/simplicity.

[Hoopla]

btw I think we should do a few runs of that trapdoor setup using the different ideas proposed during the upcoming marathon weekend

mmm true.

i'll make sure i'm around in some capacity to mod and/or play

[TemporalLich]

A shitpost-quality semi-open setup that can either be multiball or not be multiball.

Multiball or Not?

13 players

Randomly decide between the Multiball or Non-Multiball setup.

Multiball Setup

2 Mafia Goons

2 Werewolves

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot Seer

6 Vanilla Townies

Non-Multiball Setup

3 Mafia Goons

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot Seer

7 Vanilla Townies

[Kerset]

Wouldn't informed townie just spoil this at d1?

[TemporalLich]

Wouldn't informed townie just spoil this at d1?

They wouldn't know until the start of Day 3

[Isis]

I think you want the investigative to check mafia, not wolves, so that it doesn't incidentally determine which setup you're in, right?

[TemporalLich]

I think you want the investigative to check mafia, not wolves, so that it doesn't incidentally determine which setup you're in, right?

That was intended as a counterbalance as the multiball setup looked a little scumsided. And Masonizer is already a mafia-investigative in spirit.

[Gamma Emerald]

probably save the seer shot for a mason recruit, that seems like a pretty good way to boost town winrate?

[TemporalLich]

probably save the seer shot for a mason recruit, that seems like a pretty good way to boost town winrate?

As in a "not-mafia" 1-shot Masonizer or a "confirmed town" 1-shot True Masonizer?

[Gamma Emerald]

confirmed town 1 shot true masonizer

doesn't mean masonizer should act only once fyi

[TemporalLich]

Multiball or Not? v1.1

13 players

Randomly decide between the Multiball or Non-Multiball setup.

Multiball Setup

2 Mafia Goons

2 Werewolves

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot True Masonizer

(adds someone to the True Mason Lodge once in the game during night. This only works on a Town-aligned target.)

6 Vanilla Townies

Non-Multiball Setup

3 Mafia Goons

Town Masonizer

(adds someone to the Mason Lodge if they are not Mafia-aligned)

Day 3 Informed Townie

(learns what setup is picked at the start of Day 3)

Town 1-shot True Masonizer

(adds someone to the True Mason Lodge once in the game during night. This only works on a Town-aligned target.)

7 Vanilla Townies

v1.1 with Gamma Emerald's change

[Gamma Emerald]

no, don't change the role, I was thinking about how it should be played

[Hectic]

Death Curse

5 Mafia

15 Town

Nightless.
Each day, players vote to give someone a scroll containing a death curse. That person must pass the scroll to a second person, who must pass it to a third. Then, the 3 players who came in contact with the scroll simultaneously die and are flipped.
This repeats until mafia have parity or majority over the town, or all mafia are dead.

I want to /in this to the large theme queue, is it balanced? In theory, mafia can get up to 4 "nightkills" as long as they aren't the 3rd scroll bearer.

[callforjudgement]

It's slightly more townsided than a 15:5 vengescum setup would be. mith puts the balance of the vengescum version at 45.98%. As a Nightless, it would be 50%. So the EV is clearly between those two values.

I think that, given the mechanics, the EV should be a bit lower than that to produce a balanced setup. Maybe 13:5 is about right. (That said, I'm less good at balancing Larges than Minis.) Perhaps 14:5 would be better in order to avoid the potential for screwy endgames (you probably don't want a player count divisible by 3).

[Hectic]

The weird thing about making it a 14/5, is that it makes the endgame quite different. If 1 scum remains in the final 5 for 15/5, town has a 3/5 in getting them. If 1 scum remains in the final 4 for 14/5, town has a 3/4 of getting them. It's weirdly more favourable for town in that instance.

Of course, scum can achieve parity earlier with 14/5, given they can have 2 members alive in the final 4 and outright win.

How about givung scum the best of both worlds? Keep it as a 15/5 and give scum a factional 1-shot dayvig? One which they can use at any time on anyone not holding a scroll, and which reset the votes and extends the deadline by 48 hours. This means they can use it when at 11 if they have 5 alive to achieve parity, or at 5 if they have 2 alive to achieve parity. Or they could just shut down someone early on who's gonna be a lot of trouble for them.

[callforjudgement]

Giving scum a dayvig has a larger balance impact than might be expected. On the other hand, in this setup, that might be a good thing, making it easier to get the right balance from a 15:5. I think it might be worth a try.

[yessiree]

Proposing to make one change to Lovers and Losers. Instead of a mafia lovers trio, they are split between a lovers pair and a loner.

Lovers and Losers

9 Players:

2 Mafia Lovers
1 Mafia Goon

4 Town Lovers (2 pairs)
2 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Nightless
  
• Only one VT may get eliminated and only one Town Lover may get eliminated.
  
• If someone attempts to eliminate a role that has already been eliminated, the game ends in a mafia victory.

The original setup had an EV of 2/3 favouring town, by mass claiming during start and eliminating from VT claims. This change aims to combat that.

Edit: I thought this change would make the setup slightly scum-sided but I just did some calculations and the EV is exactly 50% which should still make this somewhat town sided in practice.