Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[ItalianoVD]

What makes you think Frogsterking could be scum, because I don’t think so at all.

Don't forget, he didn't vote in RVS /s

Yeah that’s true, but did we ever solidify that that was alignment indicative?

[Redados]

As far as I was concerned, my vote didn't matter. The person we were going to execute was going to be shellyc and I was convinced by MUSHSHAGANA that it was not a good idea to suggest an alternative execution, which, as it happens I didn't have. Although my scumread on shellyc waned later, I still thought it was not a good idea to make that public, for I had no alternative execution.

Your vote

did

matter. You had the potential to hammer. We could have easily switched our vote for you if we had not found someone who would hammer. I think we were pretty close to that happening.

[Redados]

What makes you think Frogsterking could be scum, because I don’t think so at all.

Don't forget, he didn't vote in RVS /s

Yeah that’s true, but did we ever solidify that that was alignment indicative?

"/s" stands for sarcasm.

I'm personally townreading Frogsterking but I'm not sure if that's because he is townreading me. So I'm trying to acknowledge that.

[ItalianoVD]

If Shelly flips green... consider the value of a Frogster and Frederick scumteam and compare it with how their interactions and play have been.

Mush was saying this for the better part of Day 1. I know she could be wrong, but I’m gonna at least look at it.

I asked this before but no one answered? For those scumreading or suspicious of Frederick, what exactly is it that makes you think the way you do? And are these actions alignment indicative?

[ItalianoVD]

What makes you think Frogsterking could be scum, because I don’t think so at all.

Don't forget, he didn't vote in RVS /s

Yeah that’s true, but did we ever solidify that that was alignment indicative?

"/s" stands for sarcasm.

I'm personally townreading Frogsterking but I'm not sure if that's because he is townreading me. So I'm trying to acknowledge that.

Oh, lol thanks for clearing that up.

[ItalianoVD]

As far as I was concerned, my vote didn't matter. The person we were going to execute was going to be shellyc and I was convinced by MUSHSHAGANA that it was not a good idea to suggest an alternative execution, which, as it happens I didn't have. Although my scumread on shellyc waned later, I still thought it was not a good idea to make that public, for I had no alternative execution.

As for why I didn't hammer shellyc, I trusted MUSHSHAGANA to do it, as she said she would switch her vote over anytime but wanted to let others put their thoughts out.

What is YOUR thought on everyone’s scumread of you. At the moment the only thing I have on you is not voting and well that’s practically nothing.

[Redados]

As far as I was concerned, my vote didn't matter. The person we were going to execute was going to be shellyc and I was convinced by MUSHSHAGANA that it was not a good idea to suggest an alternative execution, which, as it happens I didn't have. Although my scumread on shellyc waned later, I still thought it was not a good idea to make that public, for I had no alternative execution.

As for why I didn't hammer shellyc, I trusted MUSHSHAGANA to do it, as she said she would switch her vote over anytime but wanted to let others put their thoughts out.

What is YOUR thought on everyone’s scumread of you. At the moment the only thing I have on you is not voting and well that’s practically nothing.

To clarify, this is all I have right now as well.

Mush was onto Frogsterking and Fredrick A Campbell. And looking back I think Fredrick A Campbell was working hard to blend in. I find it more scummy than others.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

What are your plans for Day 2 in terms of activity?

Also just so everyone is clear, Fredrick is at E-2 right now.

[LavarManos]

@Italiano I thought you admitting that ego was driving your early push of shellyc was townie. I can sorta relate to that feeling.
One of my fears is being wrong, so sometimes I might vote someone even if I don't strongly believe that they are scum. I need to work on that.
Redados, I just think that you are town because of how eager and natural you sounded. You can think I'm pocketing you, but that is just how I feel
I will look at Frogsterking. He just seemed helpful in general, but I didn't particularly townread him. I think we can do this, and I'm still confident in rocknil being scum. Perhaps with Frogster or Magik Horse. I'm not think Fred is that scummy right now!

[Fredrick A Campbell]

As far as I was concerned, my vote didn't matter. The person we were going to execute was going to be shellyc and I was convinced by MUSHSHAGANA that it was not a good idea to suggest an alternative execution, which, as it happens I didn't have. Although my scumread on shellyc waned later, I still thought it was not a good idea to make that public, for I had no alternative execution.

As for why I didn't hammer shellyc, I trusted MUSHSHAGANA to do it, as she said she would switch her vote over anytime but wanted to let others put their thoughts out.

What is YOUR thought on everyone’s scumread of you. At the moment the only thing I have on you is not voting and well that’s practically nothing.

Firstly, I believe only Redados, you and rocknil have expressed a scumread on me, though I may discover some other player were also scumreading me while rereading parts of the thread. In my opinion, Redados' and your scumread of me appears genuine as both of you appear to believe that my not voting was indicative that I am scum and rocknil's scumread of me also appears to be plausibly genuine.

Right now, I don't have any townreads or scumreads and believe that some townreads and scumreads that I gathered during the night phase and before were inaccurate.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah guys just gonna say I think it's Larvar and Rocknil

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Rocknil

[Frogsterking]

Strong town game.

[LavarManos]

Why are you voting rocknil instead of me though and why do you think we are scum together? Do you really think I would choose to attack him, but have him completely ignore my presence?

[Frogsterking]

Why are you voting rocknil instead of me though and why do you think we are scum together? Do you really think I would choose to attack him, but have him completely ignore my presence?

VOTE: LavarManos

[Frogsterking]

I'm up against a Charmeleon this time

[LavarManos]

Answer my question

[Frogsterking]

#1

Why are you voting rocknil instead of me though and why do you think we are scum together?

#2

Do you really think I would choose to attack him, but have him completely ignore my presence?

Answer my question

(added numbers and bold)

#1

Because I had already voted Rocknil and both you and Van's slots had seemed so townie it felt more intuitive to just vote Rocknil

#2

Yes

[LavarManos]

That literally doesn't explain why you find me scummy?

[Frogsterking]

#1

As for why it's you two together it's purely through priority of elimination. I think most newbies queued up for this game because they wanted to find scum and I think the other slot lurked when they rolled scum (Rocknil's) and your slot replaced through until the most competitive personality joined (you).

To be more specific I don't think either Frederick or Magik would have killed Mush if they were scum I think both would have killed Redados and between the newbie slots alone you're a lot more likely even though you and the other replacement seemed townie in your initial posts.

[Frogsterking]

The fact you're asking for an explanation instead of accusing me of being scummy (as though you're more worried that I cheated than if I really know if you're scum or not) is another tick in the scum direction from my point of view.

[Frogsterking]

I also think you were most active at the beginning of the daystart because you were the one to hammer the night action.

[Frogsterking]

Now let's see how Charmander handles Watergun!!

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Why are you voting rocknil instead of me though and why do you think we are scum together? Do you really think I would choose to attack him, but have him completely ignore my presence?

VOTE: LavarManos

Why did you decide to switch to LavarManos after he/she questioned you?

[Frogsterking]

Now, play explanation!

If I pressure someone and don’t tell them my reads, my pressure is increased tremendously. The default assumption is I have a scumread. It is also that that player has a TELL that I am reading off of and do not want them to be aware of and get rid of. If it’s true, the reason to play this way is obvious. If it’s untrue, it implies that there is a scumtell that is exceptionally strong and I’m putting the screws on. I am going to make you crack. The whole town will scumread you. Just you wait. This leads to town players floundering and scum players rapid fire trying to change their play styles to blindly avoid a scumread.

Sometimes, they actually do start to scumtell. Sometimes. Even if they don’t, the rapid, apparently /pointless/ playstyle changes provide information to town: this person is more concerned with how they look than finding player alignments, and that’s a scum playstyle.

If I then interact positively with that player, relief occurs. “Ah, I’m safe, I must be town read.” Town and scum react differently to these, more so even than to the initial pressure. Scum wants to get buddy buddy a bit more than town: town gets more wary or dismissive of me where scum wants to avoid the pressure and scrutiny and try to, even if not necessarily buddy me, certainly to play a more accommodating and cooperative game when it comes to me.

The longer I wait to share my reads, the more the pressure builds for both of these. Scum don’t feel safe until I sort them as town, town flounders and becomes defeated as hope of getting pressure off goes down. These aren’t universal, there is crossover, but they’re important information.

Another thing: STRONG baseless pushes tilt the play field. Everyone has to react to me and my target. We get a ton of associative information based on this, because town and scum have different world views when under fire: town sees baseless pushes, scum sees “oh damn I am scum telling and I don’t know about it”, or better still, “my partner is scum telling and is a weak link in the chain, I need to eliminate them as fast as possible”.

The best part of this is that it keeps working even when I tell you all about it. Because there is always the chance that I see scumtells that I am keeping under my hat until I’m good and ready to share them.

This is not necessarily pro town play, but it is exceptionally effective in Day 1, when information is nonexistent or open to interpretation. On later days, it loses effectiveness, creating noise where actual data exists. I imagine more experienced players would be less prone to it, also, though highly critical or anxious players may never be resistant to the style.

That is what has been going on. Read back through and tell me how many associative information with Frederick weren’t intermediated by my gigantic push, just by way of example! Ultimately, I believe more discussion and information came from this playstyle than would have otherwise been seen.

Why are you voting rocknil instead of me though and why do you think we are scum together? Do you really think I would choose to attack him, but have him completely ignore my presence?

VOTE: LavarManos

Why did you decide to switch to LavarManos after he/she questioned you?

Because I don't care. I will vote Rocknil or Lavar today unless you have some insight otherwise. If you would rather lynch Rocknil on D2 because you think he's a better ML candidate I will switch right now.

[Frogsterking]

By don't care I mean I don't care if I have to vote Rocknil or Lavaar, not that I don't care about the outcome of the game! I do want to win and I am town and I think either one of these is the best move.