Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[RCEnigma]

Damn. I really wanted my cfj read to be right, but Taylor is playing pretty on par with how i thought scum would rep in.

[RCEnigma]

At least a point for recognizing cfj interacting with nos isn't how town goes about sorting someone they believe is scum.

[Frogsterking]

I called CFJ COJ in this post and I think it's still easy to understand so I will leave the typo in and try to fix for future posts.

I had issues with the formatting so my comments and their accompanying quotes are in non-chronological order. Nothing I said was that long or complex so again I will leave it how it is and try to correct in future ISOs.

Overall I think the RCE slot is town because there is some complexity to the scum play if it's scum play and there were several posts I think could have just been outright omitted from a scum perspective. I think it would be nice for town if this read is correct because RCE made some good points and seems to pay attention to details.

The town read is weak though because the position was really not that difficult to play from scum so far and because of the attention to detail you would expect the scum play to be fairly consistent.

Because that sort of post is more scummy from someone who has a lower post count. It doesn't matter much if one individual post is being guarded/defensive if the rest of the ISO is giving away information. It does matter if the majority of a player's posts are being cagey and the rest of the ISO isn't there.

Don't bullshit a bullshitter. Which posts were SJR giving away information pre post 50? Much less by post 27.

I think that this early timing was very strong and may have caught COJ off-guard.

@Mod

VC has inaccurate votes on Raya.

Fixed, and added "CFJ" as a nickname.

-gb

This is a good catch, shows RCE is paying attention to the votecount and leads me to believe he is conscientious, so values goal progression and organization.

But I only know one person that has voted scum for sure.

?

I see not mafia is being their normal day 1 self too

It's Raya, literally the only person to vote scum for sure this game.

VOTE: CFJ

Stop pissing off the mafia.

Like JayZ said "it was all good just a week ago".

Some filler. I feel like RCE was biding a little time before the COJ vote who he's suspected for a couple hundred posts by this point.

RCE How do you feel about Raya's vote on COJ?

Instead, you look at what people post, and think "why is this person posting about X? why is this person not posting about Y, when they apparently had the time to post about X?" Then you work out what reads a player must have in order for their actions to make sense, and if their apparent reads don't match their stated reads, perhaps there's scum there.

Mostly to see if my I initial read on your slot was accurate.

I can agree on the above and this is ironically pretty close to what brought me to that read.

Then the long and short is you scumread multiple sjr posts but not 27 because it's not indicative if the slot has other scum indicative posts.

But it also is indicative if that same post is made by a slot that has other scum indicative posts...but less of them.

From your pov.

I was really surprised at just how bad COJ looked in these early interactions while going through this ISO. I feel like it may have just been different communication styles that caused the conflict initially and COJ did not respond well. I view the COJ BW as much more credible after going through this ISO.

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

What if I told you I've already caught 2?

I believe here he is referring to SJReaver and COJ. And will at some point soon change his mind about SJReaver.

VOTE: Nosferatu let's dance

1. What is your mafia experience?
2. What is your play style strength(s)? Weakness(es)? Do you know?
3. In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for while scumhunting? While townreading?

1. Every game that has or will ever exist.

2. Strengths? Physical, I will bench press all of you.
Weakness?.........weakness????

3. Most important to look for scum when scum hunting I would think. I don't townread anyone ever so that's not relevant.

Takes pride in masculine qualities, plays with bravura, is skeptical and disagreeable. Assertive communicator. I'm guessing conservative politically because there are also early signs of conscientiousness.

The first player who caught my attention was SJReaver (newbie greeting tell in #13), but they've done it before as town (Newbie 2020).

Can we add this to the list of fallacies or scrub it from the wiki? This isn't a thing.

I think it should be rewritten as an NAI tell that the slot is a newbie. I feel like it's possible there is something to it but it would require a multivariate analysis.

I'd imagine it could also be indicative of a formal communication style.

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Lots of bravura.

By the end of page 3 I will have caught 1 scum.

Proceed.

Nope. By the end of day 1 no one will have caught scum. Never happened before, it isnt going to change here

What if I told you I've already caught 2?

More bravura.

NM might be town lol.

Why?

I'm with it VOTE: SJReaper

Surely it couldn’t have been this easy?

It was actually even easier than that tbh. As I'll explain in my tell all book later this day phase.

Bravura etc.

I'm starting to read comments about posting big comments later as a town tell.

Frog is probably town. That's a wild wild take.

I like this post because I'm Frog.

It's also congruent that RCE, an assertive communicator who posts a bunch of bravura early on, immediately townreads me after playing with bravura and communicating assertively while under counter-pressure.

I think my problem with this game is all of the surface level accusations that are surely to go nowhere. Some of them might even be on scum! But I only know one person that has voted scum for sure.

Nos I think you reducing Frogs case down to unintelligible babble is disingenuous at best. But the strong reaction to a weak case concerning.

What's more concerning is your attention being directed at frog and not the following votes on a wagon that you should recognize doesn't hold much weight.

What's up man talk to me, what's got you bothered?

This post marked a turning point IMO and seems more contemplative. I think RCE was beginning to question his reads here.

What's more concerning is your attention being directed at frog and not the following votes on a wagon that you should recognize doesn't hold much weight.

IM VOTING someone on a wagon that doesn't hold much weight like what the fuck am i reading

The voters on YOUR WAGON.

I think this is a good catch and a sign that RCE is paying attention to the wording. It's also a post that seems perfectly acceptable to omit as scum, especially in a scum vs scum scenario.

hmm
I am not sure about it being hard to imagine, but I think for you the possibility of nos being town is far fetched. from 488.
Not sure I agree that sarcasm is weak.

Frog, Could you elaborate on why you think there are 4 scum?

Agreed with gerain on italiano's post on frog.
K, Gerain, you are saying it is how you play D1s.
497 seems towny, but then there seems to be a self-counscious statement with 'Have I explained myself well enough."
At least that is how I see it.
Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in.

(added bold)

I feel like no one looks very townie and from what little I know about the range this setup could be there are probably three or four scum. If the setup is balanced so that there are four scum against extra prs for town that could explain the general lack of towniness.

I would have preferred this not be explained. But +1.

I think this is congruent with the change in tone over the course of D1. Contrast this for example with the earlier post:

We don't know anything about the set-up?

No idea how many mafia there are, if there are more than two factions? No idea what roles people might have?

This is weird. I don't like it.

Assume the setup is 10-3.

If we Lynch 3 mafia and the game doesn't end. Panic.

I think RCE ended up with too many srs. And changed his mind about one of the early 2 srs (Reaver.) I think these things are indicative of someone who is playing with incomplete information and therefore a town tell.

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I think he was referring to the activity around the Taylor Swift slot, that he or someone else thought the slot was scummy, possibly referring to the earlier suspicion on the soro guy in the same slot, then you remarked you were a fan of either the player or the name or the slot being replaced, then NM voted the slot. For some reason Walter found this activity notable.

I'd also like Walter to elaborate on this.

I still don't get this. raya has voted for not mafia, callforjudgement and walter. are you saying you are 100% sure scum is within those 3? as you follow with a vote for callforjudgement, I assume this is what you meant.

Nope, Walter could be scum sure. NM town. 1 scum within cfj.

I think it's congruent for RCE to be pushing on COJ who has a very analytical communication style. I can't really imagine these two cracking open some beers together.

Gamma what if I told you that you aren't the scum I've found but you are one of the slots I'm scumreading at the moment?

I feel like he probably didn't feel very threatened by this statement because it appears you are scumreading many slots.

...and I don't believe nos/frog to be partners.

Why not? Could you be wrong there?

I could be wrong about everything I've said here. But it would be silly of me to think I am.

Sharp answer.

[Frogsterking]

By the way guys at this point in time I have three serious scum reads and I'll disclose them another time. I also have one other very weak town read I'll ISO now.

[Nosferatu]

whoops did not mean to hit submit there. sometimes im a bit premature.

407 (nos) uh calling you scum is scummy? by self voting as town arent you necessarily playing against wincon?
413 (gamma) in what world is a self-vote not scummy?
436 (banana) hmm odd timing depending on flips this could be an attempt at a counterwagon?

VOTE: cfj

inactivity followed by empty statements saying "this is scummy/towny" are scummy

[Nosferatu]

also 4 scum is kind of insane for 13 players?

[geraintm]

also 4 scum is kind of insane for 13 players?

Quicknpop in, but i assume 3 always unless something really, really squiffy happens. Like killing 3 scum and the game nit being over

[Tayl0r Swift]

whoops did not mean to hit submit there. sometimes im a bit premature.

407 (nos) uh calling you scum is scummy? by self voting as town arent you necessarily playing against wincon?
413 (gamma) in what world is a self-vote not scummy?
436 (banana) hmm odd timing depending on flips this could be an attempt at a counterwagon?

VOTE: cfj

inactivity followed by empty statements saying "this is scummy/towny" are scummy

yes because its totally me choosing to be inactive by subbing into a slot... do you feel that ive been inactive since subbing in?

Damn. I really wanted my cfj read to be right, but Taylor is playing pretty on par with how i thought scum would rep in.

how exactly would you expect scum to play? by catching up and offering thoughts?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I was noting the mixed reactions by people.
The main thing that stuck out to me was italiano's meme and scum post.
It is really weird to have a take based on last slot so quickly in my opinion.

The one thing that has me worried though is the lack of a voting block.
You'd think there would be a second wagon, instead it is cfj and everyone else.
Kinda has me suspicious but if this keeps up this reminds of something, but site rules.
The 4 scum being explained is good.

[RCEnigma]

whoops did not mean to hit submit there. sometimes im a bit premature.

407 (nos) uh calling you scum is scummy? by self voting as town arent you necessarily playing against wincon?
413 (gamma) in what world is a self-vote not scummy?
436 (banana) hmm odd timing depending on flips this could be an attempt at a counterwagon?

VOTE: cfj

inactivity followed by empty statements saying "this is scummy/towny" are scummy

yes because its totally me choosing to be inactive by subbing into a slot... do you feel that ive been inactive since subbing in?

Damn. I really wanted my cfj read to be right, but Taylor is playing pretty on par with how i thought scum would rep in.

how exactly would you expect scum to play? by catching up and offering thoughts?

By projecting themselves onto the leading wagon. It can appear "natural" since there aren't any previous reads or stances to double back on.

[RCEnigma]

also 4 scum is kind of insane for 13 players?

I highly doubt GB runs 4 scum but 9-4 normals aren't unheard of. They just suck.

[Nosferatu]

whoops did not mean to hit submit there. sometimes im a bit premature.

407 (nos) uh calling you scum is scummy? by self voting as town arent you necessarily playing against wincon?
413 (gamma) in what world is a self-vote not scummy?
436 (banana) hmm odd timing depending on flips this could be an attempt at a counterwagon?

VOTE: cfj

inactivity followed by empty statements saying "this is scummy/towny" are scummy

yes because its totally me choosing to be inactive by subbing into a slot... do you feel that ive been inactive since subbing in?

Damn. I really wanted my cfj read to be right, but Taylor is playing pretty on par with how i thought scum would rep in.

how exactly would you expect scum to play? by catching up and offering thoughts?

i'm not talking about you

[Gamma Emerald]

also 4 scum is kind of insane for 13 players?

I highly doubt GB runs 4 scum but 9-4 normals aren't unheard of. They just suck.

if we want to get crazy we could try reviewer meta? But yeah 9-4 in a normal is pretty unfun-sounding

[geraintm]

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I was noting the mixed reactions by people.
The main thing that stuck out to me was italiano's meme and scum post.
It is really weird to have a take based on last slot so quickly in my opinion.

The one thing that has me worried though is the lack of a voting block.
You'd think there would be a second wagon, instead it is cfj and everyone else.
Kinda has me suspicious but if this keeps up this reminds of something, but site rules.
The 4 scum being explained is good.

What do you mean, voting block? Is that when a bunch of people declare themselves as town and start throwing their votes around?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's specifically referring to when a set of players votes together and moves their votes together

[geraintm]

By the way guys at this point in time I have three serious scum reads and I'll disclose them another time. I also have one other very weak town read I'll ISO now.

I wish people would stop being so cryptic. If you have an opinion then say, don't save them for later when they can be tailored to the game state. That is just potentially scummy...

[geraintm]

I think it's specifically referring to when a set of players votes together and moves their votes together

how is that different to what I just described?

[geraintm]

VOTE: Taylor Swift

As helpful as ever. Have you always been like this?

[geraintm]

I think you underestimate how puzzled I can be by other players. I had had a conversation with them about how they knew someone had voted for scum, worked out they meant one exact vote on one exact player, and then they just went and vigged someone else. I wanted to know why.

I guess it's natural to want to know why someone does something weird. But information that doesn't help in figuring out anyone's alignment is

dangerous

to know as town, especially if publicly posted in the thread – the scum will learn it too, and they can make better use of it than a townie can. This is why, for example, it's hugely anti-town to push someone to claim (except if you have a guilty on them, or during a generally agreed-upon massclaim). So as town, you have to train yourself into not asking questions when you can't make use of the answers for scumhunting/townhunting purposes.

Your next post though confuses me, where you attack Walter for only interacting with me. You think you have found two scum in me and Walter?

They're reads that work independently (although obviously, they fit together with each other quite neatly). On day 1, reading players based on their interactions necessarily has to take a lot of possibilities into account; without flips, there's rarely enough information to be able to make use of associative tells. (It's still worth recording them, though, so that when people look back over the thread after a few players have flipped they have the information to understand what they mean.)

oh I am.strobgly anti claim. You can go back through my old games and see that. I am aboutb90% sure that even a town role shouldn't claim except in direct circumstances, because it just doesn't lead to a good outcome. If late enough in the day you get a panicked lynch, just so many reason to not claim.

[geraintm]

whoops did not mean to hit submit there. sometimes im a bit premature.

407 (nos) uh calling you scum is scummy? by self voting as town arent you necessarily playing against wincon?
413 (gamma) in what world is a self-vote not scummy?
436 (banana) hmm odd timing depending on flips this could be an attempt at a counterwagon?

VOTE: cfj

scummy (or to better express what self-voting actually is, anti-town) doesn't mean scum

But it can be enough to vote for them, especially in a tiebreak situation. I hate people being actively anti town. Lying about your role. Fakkng a guilty verdict on someone!

[WaltertheDunce10]

Weird though we get a scum then a fan post and before that Nm with a vote on a person who just replaced in

What does this even mean?

I was noting the mixed reactions by people.
The main thing that stuck out to me was italiano's meme and scum post.
It is really weird to have a take based on last slot so quickly in my opinion.

The one thing that has me worried though is the lack of a voting block.
You'd think there would be a second wagon, instead it is cfj and everyone else.
Kinda has me suspicious but if this keeps up this reminds of something, but site rules.
The 4 scum being explained is good.

What do you mean, voting block? Is that when a bunch of people declare themselves as town and start throwing their votes around?

Yeah kinda, but not really what I meant. Usually in most games there are two or 3 wagons, but maybe that will be true there is like a week left after all.
the fact there does not seem to be a consensus on who is scum it is considering there are a lot of separate single votes.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's specifically referring to when a set of players votes together and moves their votes together

how is that different to what I just described?

voting blocks don't have implicit agreement that everyone is town

[callforjudgement]

For what it's worth, I had a moderately strong scum read on RCEnigma until #525. Although I can easily imagine a hypothetically scum RCEnigma deciding that Tayl0r's entrance is scummy, I don't think scum RCEnigma notices (and/or points out) that if Tayl0r is scum, that likely makes me town. (Tayl0r's catchup posts look somewhat like they're trying to find an excuse to join the large wagon and push me over the line, which is very opportunistic behaviour; opportunistic behaviour is one of the few scummy things that it's often worth doing as scum because the gains are so large, and the way I normally end up getting caught when I am scum. But if I were scum, then it wouldn't be an opportunity worth taking.)

[GeorgeBailey]

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[GeorgeBailey]

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