Newbie 2023 - Hedgehogs - Day 3

[the worst]

For the record I am withdrawing my andres/plusjoyed team suggestion.
I guess I'll need to nail the scumteam next time

[shellyc]

Welcome the worst! I'm going to read the posts you've made since replacing in and respond in one post.

[shellyc]

Sorry, I implied that the way we’re playing together is extremely rare for scum partners if you look at how we’re interacting with each other.

I see. What town tells am I dropping?

Having a townie mindset and thought process, not being afraid to push votes. I still remember you immediately questioned me after I replaced in and you did the same thing with PlusJoy.

[shellyc]

VOTE: PlusJOYED (this is a placeholder vote but also serious)

How is a placeholder vote serious? Contradictory.

[shellyc]

For the record I am withdrawing my andres/plusjoyed team suggestion.

Why are you withdrawing it without much happening after you suggested it?

[shellyc]

Andres, well, seems too scummy to be scum, with the exception of being really agressive like a how I think a VT should be, and not posting as much, even with an ATE like you said. Since he is experienced, if he is scum, then he is acting like scum to get away with being scum, do you think the other newbies would WIFOM like that? I'd think not; most newbies would probably call him out on being scummy and wagon him with newbie majority; that gambit is too risky for anyone but a VT (I also did something similar as a town role) in a newbie game. So therefore, he is probably town.

IMO "too scummy to be scum" is all WIFOM. I don't know why scum can't WIFOM it and play this gambit.

[shellyc]

The worst, do you have any questions for me? I read NS / PlusJoy reading me as town and I'm curious how you think of this.

[the worst]

VOTE: PlusJOYED (this is a placeholder vote but also serious)

How is a placeholder vote serious? Contradictory.

We're close to deadline and I don't think I have the weight or energy (or really inclination yet!) here to convince people to vote with me.

But it's definitely a vote on a player I think is mafia.

[shellyc]

We're close to deadline and I don't think I have the weight or energy (or really inclination yet!) here to convince people to vote with me.

But it's definitely a vote on a player I think is mafia.

Didn't you retract Andres / PlusJoy? Contradictory AGAIN.
VOTE: the worst

Pressure's on lad.

[the worst]

For the record I am withdrawing my andres/plusjoyed team suggestion.

Why are you withdrawing it without much happening after you suggested it?

I think a lot happened. I gather that Joyed has been townreading Andres for the bulk of the game. Yet when presented with an opportunity, he backed off on it. When I suggested that his reasoning for townreading Andres might be dubious, he backed off it and (despite me actively trying and failing to discern the reason for his actual read in the first place) his tact changed. Despite allegedly townreading Andres all game, he suddenly seemed to actually quite urgently want to shift his vote to Andres. And yet when I asked for an explanation on the scumread, all I got was posturing around who may/may not be an Andres partner.

I don't think Joyed's read on Andres is real, and I think Joyed was all too happy to shift his vote onto Andres. Partners (particularly newbies) tend to signal that their partner ~could be scum~ or even outright vote each other. But I think it takes a pretty uncommon scum mindset to actually defiantly shift your vote against the flow of your reads in order to E-1 your partner despite having townread them all day and then fail to explain why you're changing your mind and scumreading them.

There's just a lot about my exchange with Joyed which didn't feel like I was engaging with town, but also didn't feel like I was engaging with someone who was scum with the person they were townreading.

pedit: I'm like literally confused as to what you think is a contradiction. I'll be very surprised if that is the scumteam after my exchange with Joyed.

[the worst]

The worst, do you have any questions for me? I read NS / PlusJoy reading me as town and I'm curious how you think of this.

I'd like an explanation on the JOYED read and a bit on how you felt through our dialogue over the last few pages - read on Andres as well while we're at it?

[the worst]

regardless, one of these days you'll see someone make an actual contradiction and you'll eliminate them for it and they'll flip town and you'll be so confused and I can't wait

contradicting one's self is the opposite of a scumtell. it tends to suggest that your thoughts are still open minded because you're solving a puzzle; not rigid because you're (scum) pushing a narrative.

regardless I didn't contradict myself, I just vomit mafia theory out of habit.

[shellyc]

I think a lot happened. I gather that Joyed has been townreading Andres for the bulk of the game. Yet when presented with an opportunity, he backed off on it. When I suggested that his reasoning for townreading Andres might be dubious, he backed off it and (despite me actively trying and failing to discern the reason for his actual read in the first place) his tact changed. Despite allegedly townreading Andres all game, he suddenly seemed to actually quite urgently want to shift his vote to Andres. And yet when I asked for an explanation on the scumread, all I got was posturing around who may/may not be an Andres partner.

I don't think Joyed's read on Andres is real, and I think Joyed was all too happy to shift his vote onto Andres. Partners (particularly newbies) tend to signal that their partner ~could be scum~ or even outright vote each other. But I think it takes a pretty uncommon scum mindset to actually defiantly shift your vote against the flow of your reads in order to E-1 your partner despite having townread them all day and then fail to explain why you're changing your mind and scumreading them.

There's just a lot about my exchange with Joyed which didn't feel like I was engaging with town, but also didn't feel like I was engaging with someone who was scum with the person they were townreading.

pedit: I'm like literally confused as to what you think is a contradiction. I'll be very surprised if that is the scumteam after my exchange with Joyed.

This is literal trash. You made me spend a minute of my life looking at this which doesn't even give a read on PlusJoy.

You say PlusJoy has shifted their read; but you say scum wouldn't be this bold. The pivoting to Andres might be scum trying to bus here - scum bussing now would get massive towncred.

[the worst]

actually I will grant, you can spot contradictions in bad scum who create bad negatives with holes in them. probably best to actually try and work out whether you're looking at a contradiction or not, and if so why the person made it. analysing the insides of people's brains is fun~

[shellyc]

regardless, one of these days you'll see someone make an actual contradiction and you'll eliminate them for it and they'll flip town and you'll be so confused and I can't wait

contradicting one's self is the opposite of a scumtell. it tends to suggest that your thoughts are still open minded because you're solving a puzzle; not rigid because you're (scum) pushing a narrative.

regardless I didn't contradict myself, I just vomit mafia theory out of habit.

#1295, #1276 and #1311 is IIoA. I am not inclined to believe you spit out mafia theory as a personality trait. Your posting has been a confusing mess to me. The only thing that's relevant you've said the entire game is how andre's scumgame is mediocre. (and then you retracted the scumteam proposal)

Can I have your initial thoughts or reads?

[the worst]

This is literal trash. You made me spend a minute of my life looking at this which doesn't even give a read on PlusJoy.

You say PlusJoy has shifted their read; but you say scum wouldn't be this bold. The pivoting to Andres might be scum trying to bus here - scum bussing now would get massive towncred.

yuck.

I don't think scum!JOYED put that much effort into really ensuring that they bussed Andres, no. despite signalling a townread on Andres, I don't think they *actually* want Andres alive.

[shellyc]

This is literal trash. You made me spend a minute of my life looking at this which doesn't even give a read on PlusJoy.

You say PlusJoy has shifted their read; but you say scum wouldn't be this bold. The pivoting to Andres might be scum trying to bus here - scum bussing now would get massive towncred.

yuck.

I don't think scum!JOYED put that much effort into really ensuring that they bussed Andres, no. despite signalling a townread on Andres, I don't think they *actually* want Andres alive.

Scum want VCA towncred. They really want it. If Andres flips red then PlusJoy will get ALL THE CREDIT for pivoting and ensuring Andres' death.

[the worst]

regardless, one of these days you'll see someone make an actual contradiction and you'll eliminate them for it and they'll flip town and you'll be so confused and I can't wait

contradicting one's self is the opposite of a scumtell. it tends to suggest that your thoughts are still open minded because you're solving a puzzle; not rigid because you're (scum) pushing a narrative.

regardless I didn't contradict myself, I just vomit mafia theory out of habit.

#1295, #1276 and #1311 is IIoA. I am not inclined to believe you spit out mafia theory as a personality trait. Your posting has been a confusing mess to me. The only thing that's relevant you've said the entire game is how andre's scumgame is mediocre. (and then you retracted the scumteam proposal)

Can I have your initial thoughts or reads?

can you like, read the rest of my posts, please?

if you find anything I'm saying confusing, please quote it and make an effort to explain why you're confused and I'll try to explain it. I think you're being more hurtful to my personality than valuable to sorting my alignment and I'd appreciate if you could put some effort in.

I just got off work like less than an hour ago, and haven't had a chance to fully read the game; you asking me to explain thought processes takes my time which delays me reading it. no I'm not going to give you a readlist in a neat tidy package because I don't have confident reads aorn.

[the worst]

This is literal trash. You made me spend a minute of my life looking at this which doesn't even give a read on PlusJoy.

You say PlusJoy has shifted their read; but you say scum wouldn't be this bold. The pivoting to Andres might be scum trying to bus here - scum bussing now would get massive towncred.

yuck.

I don't think scum!JOYED put that much effort into really ensuring that they bussed Andres, no. despite signalling a townread on Andres, I don't think they *actually* want Andres alive.

Scum want VCA towncred. They really want it. If Andres flips red then PlusJoy will get ALL THE CREDIT for pivoting and ensuring Andres' death.

look me in the fact and say you think newbscum!JOYED was so stressed in that situation that they felt they needed to switch their vote onto their partner despite having townread them like 2 posts before and having absolutely no downwards read trajectory. I'm pretty sure anyone reading that exchange would be absolutely baffled as to why JOYED is shifting their vote onto Andres. like the vote shift makes no effort whatsoever to be a cohesive thought, and rather than explain why his read is changing he starts posturing what we should do if Andres flips green.

so like

please look me in the face and tell me you actually read that exchange and thought "oh boy town!worst sure did talk scum!JOYED into voting scum!Andres".

if JOYED is as new as he reads, I reeeeeally don't think some vague possible speculative vca benefit crossed his mind and made him want to bus? experienced players in current meta also tend to realise that nearly nobody uses vca atm?

[the worst]

and like I just do not think newbies know that kind of voting pattern is vca anti-s/s indicative

[shellyc]

if you find anything I'm saying confusing, please quote it and make an effort to explain why you're confused and I'll try to explain it. I think you're being more hurtful to my personality than valuable to sorting my alignment and I'd appreciate if you could put some effort in.

The reason why I'm being so aggressive to you is trying to sort your alignment

One thing I did was voting you when I already knew my vote was on you. I was trying to provoke a reaction from my posts. #1314 was baiting a reaction as well.

I don't know if this is AI. "put some effort in" is a town mindset for me.

[the worst]

I mean I'm here to have a good time and play to my wincon. I don't really enjoy playing with people who are aggressive and don't make an effort to read what I'm saying so.. ┐(´д`)┌

[shellyc]

look me in the fact and say you think newbscum!JOYED was so stressed in that situation that they felt they needed to switch their vote onto their partner despite having townread them like 2 posts before and having absolutely no downwards read trajectory. I'm pretty sure anyone reading that exchange would be absolutely baffled as to why JOYED is shifting their vote onto Andres. like the vote shift makes no effort whatsoever to be a cohesive thought, and rather than explain why his read is changing he starts posturing what we should do if Andres flips green.

so like

please look me in the face and tell me you actually read that exchange and thought "oh boy town!worst sure did talk scum!JOYED into voting scum!Andres".

if JOYED is as new as he reads, I reeeeeally don't think some vague possible speculative vca benefit crossed his mind and made him want to bus? experienced players in current meta also tend to realise that nearly nobody uses vca atm?

I'm literally a complete newb. The meta I've experienced was chat mafia meta where scum love bussing for towncred.

I'm also confused as to why PlusJoy is shifting alright? The conclusion I came to was bussing scum and you point out it is incorrect and I respect that. Yet you can't come to a conclusion...

[shellyc]

I mean I'm here to have a good time and play to my wincon. I don't really enjoy playing with people who are aggressive and don't make an effort to read what I'm saying so.. ┐(´д`)┌

I did read your posting. I looked through your ISO thrice.

[the worst]

this is literally a conclusion. I think JOYED is scum and that struck me as non-partnery. I am so confused.