Newbie 2023 - Hedgehogs - Day 3

[the worst]

Nash seems pretty town

I thought we talked about the main post where you thought Nash was town and you agreed with me? Are you still townreading him for that post specifically, or are there other things you're townreading him for?

As an aside I agree with the whole forming townreads D1 thing. But lately I have been putting myself into shit positions on later days by giving out townreads with too low of a threshhold because it's hard for me to psychologically backtrack against an earlier townread I made. Then I just confuse myself on D2/D3 because I've townread everyone still alive to some degree

i can't believe iv was eliminated over my slot here.

@nash, wut

I mean her only townread was on a consensus town who says is experienced enough to act the same way as either alignment, because of activity.
Tin foil hat theory - scum!Clarity found it hard to engage with the thread, so activity was a towntell for a fakeread off the top of her head.

The slot needs more pressure.

might be tunnelled because nash is creeping me out and i have future-knowledge of bell being towny in the same slot, but
like
of every player alive at this point in the game i really don't think she needs attention; she's had votes the entire way through for fairly Bad reasons and her somewhat Bad post was like, not as Bad as the balance of her iso

[the worst]

I'll try

at some level i think ppl should reevaluate clarity and decide if they still think this slot is town because her posting here feels Really stiff but i think i need to apply more empathy when i'm less tired
i will i say strongly agree with her uncomfortable tonality in weighting her reads; i think there's likely townread scum on d1 at some point.

black hole

i kinda like, actually kinda townread the fluidity of tone and general thoughts from andres on this page and i was not expecting to
v v v strongly agree with the hot take on nash

[the worst]

I would say that Walter seems like Town to me so far. I see a Town mindset and some good probing and engaging.

i also think this is a fairly counter-intuitive fake read / pocket

[the worst]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Just my early guess. I can’t see a lot of what’s in 272. Hence, my vote.

Can you be more specific?

VOTE: Bellaphant

Just my early guess. I can’t see a lot of what’s in 272. Hence, my vote.

Can you be more specific?

I was in my immediate next post. I certainly can’t say either way what your alignment is Nash and I have a hard time seeing how anyone can argue that you’re a strong TR. That’s what made me most skeptical.

this is a really interesting engagement
i don't really get the impression nash was interested in andres' answer
particularly given he'd already explained it
i'll w8 and see if i'm wrong

I ISO’ed Clarity really quickly. I had Clarity as Lean Scum at first but I feel bad about that read now. Clarity is a bit null to positive for me. The vote on me via process of elimination I can’t really object to (though I would be interested in them maybe expanding on what you think has been Towny from Bellaphant and The Bulge), and otherwise they seem to be trying to figure out the game.

rn tho I think I will let andres keep posting

yeah i vibe this x2
andres has probably given the most sincere read on clarity which anyone has for a while; i feel like there's some noncommittal townreads on her and some noncommittal scumreads on her and people are kinda just Moving Around her slot

also feel like the bulge is rolling downhill, i don't have a ~particularly strong~ read on him yet but his posting is getting a lot more like, fun/interesting as i go on.

@The Bulge you should keep posting. Why was I SR you again? Whatever it was I was probably wrong.

at a meta level this post is somewhat Unlikely to come from scum!andres mid brainspam catchup


oh hold on i'm semi-live commentating this post

Spoiler:

At this stage I think {Nash, Bellaphant} is where I want to focus my energy on.

yes good.

Nash’s posting seems too detached, and I’m not seeing any genuine interest to figure out anyone’s alignment.

yes nash literally pops up with strange Conclusions with no trajectory

Not that boredom can really give away anyone’s alignment - I did call the game a bland read.

cripplingly

But Nash sounds smart to me, right? Comments about how one player is “less likely than random” to be Partner’s with another player usually come from experienced players with some sway.

certainly, and

Yet I’m seeing no hard stances almost,

n

o

t

h

i

n

g

j

u

i

c

y

.

yes yes YES YES YES

There’s already a lot of players highlighting Nash’s agreeableness. I’m 100% with them. Being safe is what I expect Scum to be doing here. Give me a reason to TR Nash.

:partying_face:

ty for listening

[the worst]

I'm in a constant loop with you iv

sometimes I feel like your brazenness cant possibly be coming from scum, but the longer I dwell on any such wifomy territory the more i feel like i am being Played.

do you ever reread your old town games as scum?

hi this kinda reads like he's actually trying to sort iv

i'm starting to realise i am probably Incorrect on someone i liek atp

[the worst]

Spoiler: not game related.

I'm in a constant loop with you iv

sometimes I feel like your brazenness cant possibly be coming from scum, but the longer I dwell on any such wifomy territory the more i feel like i am being Played.

do you ever reread your old town games as scum?

I sometimes reread my old scum games as town

I haven't rolled scum yet since my most recent hiatus

except for this game

But if I were to roll scum I'm probably also in a town game already concurrently so I like to post in both threads in a similar timeframe to blur the line between my scum and town mindset

i like u

[the worst]

UNVOTE: annoyingly, Andres doubling down makes more sense as town. Although if hia focus stays relatively narrow, I'll look at it again.

yeah this page is increasingly Good for andres.
i'm starting to see why people were kinda skethcy abt my slot

[the worst]

Why do you believe it is too early to have a hard stance?

It's D1. Personalities can be faked, lynches cannot.

this whole shtick is highlighting how blatantly incorrect this post is but w/e
i'd like to note that out of audacious/tonal towniness and early surface reads oreo has now successfully ignored literally all of the stuff i have found interesting in d1 so far and my townread on him is Waning

@Clarity, how did Andresvmb's recent posts affect your PoE?
@NS, how do you read TB now?

hey i was right he didn't care about andres answering his q i wonder if he cares about this one : ]
readlist here was an "oh you asked me for reads here's a readlist" readlist, and didn't contain anything that made me have Brain Thoughts about nash so i'm basically just going to ignore it

VOTE: Clarity

VOTE: innocentvillager

vote ending on IV (constantly wagoned, nash has ~zero trajectory save the original read whiplash) is quite Bad

I don't think speculation about a newbie replace our is helpful of conclusive and like....that has my Spidey sense pinging.

Can you tell me a bit more about clarity?

I think her reads are pretty vague in a way that can be faked easily as scum.

i like vehemently disagree with this tell
it's almost like newbies post Actual Thoughts? and Actual Thoughts aren't crystal clear and concise and well edited???
unreal bro.
i am lowkey iffy about that clarity slot and it's not for the same reason.

she's not very... clear

gottem

i kind of think Nash is null leaning town now

you're already dead and you're still breaking my heart wtf

@NS, how do you read TB now?

Town?

Maybe?

STill havent reread will hopefully have time tonight but I have stuff to do all day.

i wonder if nash cares about this answer.

not sure what to make of bella's dismissiveness without somebody else's input but I'm wary. maybe this isn't the time.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: iv

actually UNVOTE:
VOTE: walter

walter's last couple posts in particular have been very lazy and felt opportunistic. his iso is riddled with similar questions and comments actually. I recently played a game where scumwalter's presence was similar, always seeming to be the one to ask the questions everyone sees but nobody bothers asking.

walter were you under the impression that this was ouroel's first time answering a question not directed at him this game?

this is liek
a chain of the two (2) worst votes in the game
help

I had to join this game because hedgehogs.

relatable content.

[the worst]

Did I ever try to leverage anything or do anything other than say she’s town and the suspicions of her are dumb?

A cursory look at my past games tells you I do that a lot

i was actually kinda just startled that notscience couldn't hold the engagement on this page then saw

A)I was voted first post in the game
B) I don’t like unsubstantiated reads on me. It’s too easy to toss out reads if people aren’t called on it,
C) I feel like I was pretty actively against the wagon but sure, let’s talk about your interpretation of the thread and not what’s actually in it
D) yeah I’m down to clown iv

Pedit
Lol

and felt fuzzy again
@bell throw me an updated read on notscience / how this post made you feel if you could please
try to forget getting distracted by innocentvillager

What's the case on NS?

WOW COULD IT BE
ANOTHER QUESTION
NASH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT

[the worst]

To answer your question, I hate being Scum. I’ve said this repeatedly in my home forum

i can like. hard vouch for this

[the worst]

idk.

I feel like Andres is scummy but I tend to believe people when asked about their favorite alignments and I think hes been too present for him to be scum.

I dont think Bell is scum. I liked Clarity's posting and I didn't hate his entrance like Andres did.

I'm back and forth on Bulge and Bella. I know Bella does better one on one and I understand where shes coming from with it being hard to engage Our but I don't feel like you're difficult to engage with, IV. So that's weird. Bulge is doing just enough i feel like too but I know thats hypocritical.

Our is very wagon happy. I'm kinda curious which alignment he prefers to play as but I found a weird disconnect between you and Nash being in his three strongest townreads but then later saying he struggles to read you guys.

Still liked Nash's posting.

Walter- idk. I liked him following up on his earlier questioning but I feel like there had to have been scum on that four man IV wagon earlier.

scumteam is now notscience + whoever nash is now
i closed post#0
i could check rather than posting excuses for not checking
but i'm excited

[the worst]

I learned stuff.

He has two scum modes. The unsure one he isn’t playing as but the more aggressive, confident one he could be. That’s fairly difficult to differentiate from his town games though. He’s more excited, happy, and sort of side chatty when he’s town.
He posts a lot as either alignment.
His ‘haha’ thing is just a thing he does. So, I won’t read into it.but one day in the future I will be able to differentiate between his town hahas and his scum hahas.

Probably not.

outside of literally how much he posts, did you like.. read the content of a d1 or d2 in one of his games for read progression/an idea of where his scum & town ranges actually intersect in terms of ability to play the game? at a tonal level i think this is his towngame with a margin of error due to low presence but i think his posting when he got fired up was actually fairly strikingly town indicative. site culture stuff too; m451 tends to get more shorter posts at rand than mafiascum newbie games do (people often take it a little slower and more detailed in these games).

i realised i'mkinda posting a LOt close to deadline and i'm sorry

[PlusJOYED]

This is literal trash. You made me spend a minute of my life looking at this which doesn't even give a read on PlusJoy.

You say PlusJoy has shifted their read; but you say scum wouldn't be this bold. The pivoting to Andres might be scum trying to bus here - scum bussing now would get massive towncred.

yuck.

I don't think scum!JOYED put that much effort into really ensuring that they bussed Andres, no. despite signalling a townread on Andres, I don't think they *actually* want Andres alive.

Scum want VCA towncred. They really want it. If Andres flips red then PlusJoy will get ALL THE CREDIT for pivoting and ensuring Andres' death.

look me in the fact and say you think newbscum!JOYED was so stressed in that situation that they felt they needed to switch their vote onto their partner despite having townread them like 2 posts before and having absolutely no downwards read trajectory. I'm pretty sure anyone reading that exchange would be absolutely baffled as to why JOYED is shifting their vote onto Andres. like the vote shift makes no effort whatsoever to be a cohesive thought, and rather than explain why his read is changing he starts posturing what we should do if Andres flips green.

so like

please look me in the face and tell me you actually read that exchange and thought "oh boy town!worst sure did talk scum!JOYED into voting scum!Andres".

if JOYED is as new as he reads, I reeeeeally don't think some vague possible speculative vca benefit crossed his mind and made him want to bus? experienced players in current meta also tend to realise that nearly nobody uses vca atm?

Interesting.
UNVOTE: Andres
Actually, I still townread Andres and scumread you, I just didn't want to be direct. I just wanted to see your reaction when I put you in a situation where I would go after you next if Andres flipped town and died, and so you want to get rid of me the next day.

[the worst]

No matter which way I look at it, the last few pages have seen a whole lot of towning it up. If andre is town, does scum benefit in this position from doing anything rather than keeping up appearances? If andre is scum, does anything need to be done besides let him defend himself? bella is sliding toward my townlean side with basically every post and I think bell comes out of these last few pages looking good as well. I want to say the same for iv but I still really have no idea how to interpret his tone and thus don't think I should be letting high activity dictate my read of his slot.

my vote stays on walter but I'll be around today with an eye on andre's wagon

i like literally all of this except the vote staying on walter.

Bulge

does his posting on this page come from scum who is (as bella correctly pointed out) increasingly fatalistic?
if it does it's because he thinks he will actually lowkey survive; i don't think andres is the type to go to this length to anti-spew a partner

Sorry. I am back.
I see andres is at e-1
I would rather not have to hammer Andres unless absolutely needed.
I have to do some dishes rn so I will be back in 20.

VOTE: IV

Wagon ho

a town counterwagon to town might be a faint town indicator for notscience actually

i guess when i actually think about it this helps scum as well
i'm not married to this read

soulread ns/bell/iv town - there is not really much manipulation in this exchange and if there is gth i'd call it bell but if it is we're probably gonna lose. lol.

i just think the me NS dynamic is hilarious and I can't wait to find out the results. if I had the complete opposite direction reads that would be fucking hilarious and i would cry at how good NS is at manipulating me

this is my current mood, ns just yeeted himself up my readlist and i have no idea why

Hey, back and reading.

in an EOD full of increasingly towny players
this is a truly wolfy pop-in

VOTE: Nash

yeah

VOTE: Nash

It occurs to me that I might sleep through the 8 hour deadline.
Since it’s 11:55pm and the deadline ends at 8 pm and I fall asleep around 1

This is scummy af.
IV, why do you TR Bell again?

this is probably the towniest part of his posts on this page and it's kinda still..... : \ i guess i'd say very hard to relate to?

Nash wagon is ass is anyone around to help make a better wagon

a truly, gloriously unlucky take if town and a truly, spectacularly badass post if scum

Day 1, VC 9

Nash (3) -

Bell,

innocentvillager

,

WaltertheDunce10

innocentvillager (2) -

Andresvmb, notscience

Andresvmb (2) -

The Bulge, Nash

The Bulge (1) -

Ouroe

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

Bellaphant

Not Voting (0)

-

[the worst]

VOTE: innocentvillager

his contributions to this EOD are
1) ignoring all those DAMN QUESTIONS HE KEEPS ASKING THAT HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT : )
2) not sorting or advancing reads
3) voting survivalistically
like
i benefit from hindsight glasses given iv & walter (two slots who like, were probably fairly questionable preflip to some extent) were town
am i going crazy or is nash's posting just phenomenally bad

VOTE: andrevmb

@bell why did you move here

Nash wagon is ass is anyone around to help make a better wagon

This, basically

:c wagon was righteous.

Move to Andres then, he lied about showing up again

I stand corrected, on reiso he did not.

towny fuckup or double deepwolf s/s with andres slip.

It was not clear.

update: day 57, still no sign of nash doing anything except voting survivalistically

One hour 30 minutes pretty unlikely that we’ll be able to move vote off IV.

Blind hammer.
Might as well have done it on Nash

mood.

[the worst]

This is literal trash. You made me spend a minute of my life looking at this which doesn't even give a read on PlusJoy.

You say PlusJoy has shifted their read; but you say scum wouldn't be this bold. The pivoting to Andres might be scum trying to bus here - scum bussing now would get massive towncred.

yuck.

I don't think scum!JOYED put that much effort into really ensuring that they bussed Andres, no. despite signalling a townread on Andres, I don't think they *actually* want Andres alive.

Scum want VCA towncred. They really want it. If Andres flips red then PlusJoy will get ALL THE CREDIT for pivoting and ensuring Andres' death.

look me in the fact and say you think newbscum!JOYED was so stressed in that situation that they felt they needed to switch their vote onto their partner despite having townread them like 2 posts before and having absolutely no downwards read trajectory. I'm pretty sure anyone reading that exchange would be absolutely baffled as to why JOYED is shifting their vote onto Andres. like the vote shift makes no effort whatsoever to be a cohesive thought, and rather than explain why his read is changing he starts posturing what we should do if Andres flips green.

so like

please look me in the face and tell me you actually read that exchange and thought "oh boy town!worst sure did talk scum!JOYED into voting scum!Andres".

if JOYED is as new as he reads, I reeeeeally don't think some vague possible speculative vca benefit crossed his mind and made him want to bus? experienced players in current meta also tend to realise that nearly nobody uses vca atm?

Interesting.
UNVOTE: Andres
Actually, I still townread Andres and scumread you, I just didn't want to be direct. I just wanted to see your reaction when I put you in a situation where I would go after you next if Andres flipped town and died, and so you want to get rid of me the next day.

well like
right now we have three wagons
on andres (who i think is town)
the bulge (who i would say gth is town but idrk)
and myself (i am town)

i will now be dedicating my energy towards getting people to vote you, because you are mafia

so if you townread andres and scumread me then like

1. once again, why did you originally start townreading andres? please quote his posts which made you think he was town.
   
2. why did you vote andres given i was asking for your read on him, absolutely explicitly not suggesting he was mafia and why would you listen to me anyway since you were scumreading bella=>me?
   
3. why did you unvote just now instead of voting me and turning me, your scumread, into a leading wagon?

[shellyc]

Interesting.
UNVOTE: Andres
Actually, I still townread Andres and scumread you, I just didn't want to be direct. I just wanted to see your reaction when I put you in a situation where I would go after you next if Andres flipped town and died, and so you want to get rid of me the next day.

What?! After me and the worst read you as scum for the vote, you decide to unvote. This sounds like scum trying to rectify

[the worst]

and you aren't voting scum who is trying to rectify whyyyyy exactly?

were my walls & walls of insightful catchup with clear read trajectory too scummy?

[the worst]

actually @JOYED as an addendum why did you find that post the only post since you left last night that was worth responding to..?

[shellyc]

and you aren't voting scum who is trying to rectify whyyyyy exactly?

were my walls & walls of insightful catchup with clear read trajectory too scummy?

I read your catchup - imo you could have put that in your notes PT but yeah sure I see your townie mindset. Your vote is a placeholder and I'm currently reading PlusJoy's ISO to read them as I can't really get a read off there

[PlusJOYED]

Interesting.
UNVOTE: Andres
Actually, I still townread Andres and scumread you, I just didn't want to be direct. I just wanted to see your reaction when I put you in a situation where I would go after you next if Andres flipped town and died, and so you want to get rid of me the next day.

What?! After me and the worst read you as scum for the vote, you decide to unvote. This sounds like scum trying to rectify

No, I wanted to do something like that to gauge the replacements reaction to something scummy, called a slayers gambit. Though it was a bit risky to do, and I can see why you'd wanna elim me. On the bright side, once I flip town we'll have a mafia pretty soundly proven
VOTE: the worst

[shellyc]

No, I wanted to do something like that to gauge the replacements reaction to something scummy, called a slayers gambit. Though it was a bit risky to do, and I can see why you'd wanna elim me. On the bright side, once I flip town we'll have a mafia pretty soundly proven
VOTE: the worst

Woah woah. OMGUS? I have no idea why you would OMGUS there. Btw what happened to your NS scumread as the parts of your ISO i've read so far you've been SRing NS

[shellyc]

That's E-1 by the way if I recall correctly.

I no longer scumread the worst. Those posts are solid gold town mindset.
VOTE: Unvote

[PlusJOYED]

No, I wanted to do something like that to gauge the replacements reaction to something scummy, called a slayers gambit. Though it was a bit risky to do, and I can see why you'd wanna elim me. On the bright side, once I flip town we'll have a mafia pretty soundly proven
VOTE: the worst

Woah woah. OMGUS? I have no idea why you would OMGUS there. Btw what happened to your NS scumread as the parts of your ISO i've read so far you've been SRing NS

I still scumread NS, a the worst / NS scum team seems plausible. Not an omgus. If you scumread me shelly, you should elim me.

[the worst]

Interesting.
UNVOTE: Andres
Actually, I still townread Andres and scumread you, I just didn't want to be direct. I just wanted to see your reaction when I put you in a situation where I would go after you next if Andres flipped town and died, and so you want to get rid of me the next day.

What?! After me and the worst read you as scum for the vote, you decide to unvote. This sounds like scum trying to rectify

No, I wanted to do something like that to gauge the replacements reaction to something scummy, called a slayers gambit. Though it was a bit risky to do, and I can see why you'd wanna elim me. On the bright side, once I flip town we'll have a mafia pretty soundly proven
VOTE: the worst

if anyone wants me to baby step through why this is fake i'm down but i think we have a red flip today