Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[Nahdia]

rocknil is eligible for another prod. As this is his third prod, I am now seeking a replacement.

[Frogsterking]

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

rocknil is eligible for another prod. As this is his third prod, I am now seeking a replacement.

Maybe it won't be as necessary now after a replacement.

[Frogsterking]

Thank you for doing that effort. How much value do you place on kill analysis?

@Italiano: I still wanna know who you think is maf.

In this game I decided to place a little bit more because I'm townreading too many players and in the past that would help me in this kind of situation. Often I wouldn't do it because in the games I'm used to there either wasn't this much time or there didn't appear to be the need.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Pretty certain Frog and Lavar aren't buddies.

I am still townreading Italiano and I still townread you, so I am thinking we can try to find the scumteam in the remaining pool of four players based on how they have interacted. I do not think rocknil is scum with Fredrick because there is no need to open up the day with a vote on his scumbuddy. I also do not like how rocknil chose to ignore my vote on him.

In Day 1, I pushed hard for shellyc. I thought there was something tangible there but I was wrong. I don't blame you for scumreading me. But you are wrong. I am now going over the thread to find the scum team. I have this feeling that I've missed something.

How did that go?

I can confirm this.

What are you confirming?

[Redados]

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

Care to elaborate?

[Casey]

If we don't get a replacement within 24 hours, I'm okay with limming Rock as-is.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

To be specific, are you saying you think he is mafia?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

If we don't get a replacement within 24 hours, I'm okay with limming Rock as-is.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

To be specific, are you saying you think he is mafia?

Exactly.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Frogsterking, why do you seem the most obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill.

In the mafia format I have almost all of my experience in (livechat, roughly 5-20 minute days and 1-5 minute nights on average) I relied extensively on analyzing night kills to complement behavioral reads.

Part of the reason that method was useful to me was I understood how players of different levels approached their night choices in that format.

Things are different when players get a couple days to make their choice instead of a couple minutes and I'm not sure how much of what I know carries over to this format and I'm trying to learn quickly.

Actually, I just noticed that this answers the question "Why are you so interested in the nightkill?" and not the question I actually asked, which is "Why do you seem the most obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill?"

So that you don't get to pretend to not understand what I am trying to say, let me put it bluntly. Please answer the question (Why are you so obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill?)

[Fredrick A Campbell]

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

Care to elaborate?

Originally, I started to scumread Frogsterking for his obsession of what everyone thinks of the nightkill. Then, Casey made the following post.

Okay so look at these.

Welcome to the town Casey!

Welcome aboard, Casey.

Welcome to the game Casey.

Italiano and Rock welcome me to the game / aboard, but you specifically welcome me to the

town

.

The post added more fuel to my suspicions. I first questioned Frogsterking's obsession over what everyone thinks of the nightkill. Meanwhile, I reread some part of the thread and misinterpreted a post Frogsterking made. I prepared to make a post to question Frogsterking on the post and saved it as a draft. Frogsterking appeared to answer the question of why he was so obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill, so I dismissed it. I then posted the draft. After Frogsterking clarified the meaning of the post I misinterpreted, I actually didn't understand the clarification. However, while I started to make another post to further point out what was the problem with the post, I noticed that no such problem actually existed. Instead of questioning on an issue that was now evident to me was non-existent, I unvoted instead since I had no further reason to scumread him. Several hours later, I look at my spreadsheet with the list of all my reads thus far and the post(s) from which I deduced them. I noticed I listed Frogsterking's post 640 as my reason for scumreading him. Actually, when I made the post you quoted, I still thought I only remembered scumreading Frogsterking for post 640 and the post I misinterpreted. It is only while looking into the question I remember asking Frogsterking something that I didn't remember that I remembered my true reason for scumreading Frogsterking.

In conclusion, my current scumread on Frogsterking is over his obsession of what everyone thinks of the nightkill, while my reason for scumreading Frogsterking when I made the post you quoted was for post 640 and my very first suspicions on Frogsterking was because of his obsession over the nightkill.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Actually, on looking back, apparently I was initially scumreading Frogsterking for something which I didn't even post because I forgot about it before I posted it or recorded it in my spreadsheet.

[ItalianoVD]

Mush seemed fine with Italiano about midway through the day, weakly townreading him. Around post #300 though Mush's opinion of Italiano went sharply downhill and deteriorated rapidly throughout the day.

In the spoiler I have posts 257, 268, 304, 310, 312, 319, 386 and 495

I wouldn’t say fine, I believe she was tolerating me all throughout, the way I was her. She initially pressured me over how I was reading shellyc and the so called “stubbornness” of my play. I still don’t get how she could pressure me on that, but pressuring her about Frederick didn’t receive the same fairness, calling my dislike of her push on Frederick personal. And no, I wasn’t trying to game solve on Day 1. Shelly seemed like scum, I voted for her.

In my opinion the Mush kill benefited Italiano the most next to Frederick obviously. I'll touch on what Mush said about Rocknil a little bit later, but in my interpretation Mush viewed Rocknil as more of a policy lynch with a scumlean and had more substantial concerns about Italiano. I can't imagine a world where Italiano is expecting to win a lylo as scum with Mush alive unless he is expecting to persuade a townie to lynch Mush which seems unlikely. This definitely was a tick in the scum direction for Italiano for me because in my opinion Mush had to die at some point as far as Italiano's win condition is concerned. Consider 386 and 460, it seems as though shelly's erratic play drew all of Mush's attention away from Italiano which was why we did not hear about him more from Mush by the end of the day.

Of course, but in my mind Mush getting killed could incriminate two people, mainly Frederick, which is why I said what I said in 627 and asked Fredrick what he thought about it. You were the other person. Mush was basing her read of you on the shelly flip. She stated you would have been her main target had 1) shelly townflipped and 2) she survived.

Mush's sentiment toward him was also something he was clearly aware of, because they both acknowledged it to each other in 496, 498 and 499

Of course I was aware of it. Not sure why you are framing it otherwise.

Italiano is also keenly aware he could night kill Mush to remove a key threat without being overtly blamed for it as evidenced by his response to me in post 627

Sounds like a thought or premise from a biased point of view. It makes sense, but you’re assessment is wrong.

[ItalianoVD]

Thank you for doing that effort. How much value do you place on kill analysis?

@Italiano: I still wanna know who you think is maf.

I don’t solve for partners so if you want me to try to solve the game that way then you’re gonna be disappointed. I think scum is somewhere within rock, Lavar and you/MagikHorse. I’d be okay eliminating

As I’ve stated already, Redados, Frederick, and somewhat Frogsterking are in my no lynch pool

[ItalianoVD]

Ok, I suppose I will ignore Casey's scumread on me then. I do think I have shown attempts to solve.

Not sure why you would just ignore it.

[ItalianoVD]

rocknil is eligible for another prod. As this is his third prod, I am now seeking a replacement.

This game has had a lot of replacements. The most since I been on here.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Thank you for doing that effort. How much value do you place on kill analysis?

@Italiano: I still wanna know who you think is maf.

I don’t solve for partners so if you want me to try to solve the game that way then you’re gonna be disappointed. I think scum is somewhere within rock, Lavar and you/MagikHorse. I’d be okay eliminating

As I’ve stated already, Redados, Frederick, and somewhat Frogsterking are in my no lynch pool

Since you townread Frogsterking, what do you have to say about my scumread on Frogsterking.

[Frogsterking]

Frogsterking, why do you seem the most obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill.

In the mafia format I have almost all of my experience in (livechat, roughly 5-20 minute days and 1-5 minute nights on average) I relied extensively on analyzing night kills to complement behavioral reads.

Part of the reason that method was useful to me was I understood how players of different levels approached their night choices in that format.

Things are different when players get a couple days to make their choice instead of a couple minutes and I'm not sure how much of what I know carries over to this format and I'm trying to learn quickly.

Actually, I just noticed that this answers the question "Why are you so interested in the nightkill?" and not the question I actually asked, which is "Why do you seem the most obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill?"

So that you don't get to pretend to not understand what I am trying to say, let me put it bluntly. Please answer the question (Why are you so obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill?)

Night kill analysis isn't a scum tell. The harder you push this the less sense it makes to me from a town!Frederick perspective and the more sense it makes from a scum!Frederick perspective. The timing of your post also makes it appear as though you decided to re-FoS me once you saw Casey's post.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

The scumread isn't over your obsession of the night kill. It is over your obsession of what others think of the night kill.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

Care to elaborate?

Originally, I started to scumread Frogsterking for his obsession of what everyone thinks of the nightkill. Then, Casey made the following post.

Okay so look at these.

Welcome to the town Casey!

Welcome aboard, Casey.

Welcome to the game Casey.

Italiano and Rock welcome me to the game / aboard, but you specifically welcome me to the

town

.

The post added more fuel to my suspicions. I first questioned Frogsterking's obsession over what everyone thinks of the nightkill. Meanwhile, I reread some part of the thread and misinterpreted a post Frogsterking made. I prepared to make a post to question Frogsterking on the post and saved it as a draft. Frogsterking appeared to answer the question of why he was so obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill, so I dismissed it. I then posted the draft. After Frogsterking clarified the meaning of the post I misinterpreted, I actually didn't understand the clarification. However, while I started to make another post to further point out what was the problem with the post, I noticed that no such problem actually existed. Instead of questioning on an issue that was now evident to me was non-existent, I unvoted instead since I had no further reason to scumread him. Several hours later, I look at my spreadsheet with the list of all my reads thus far and the post(s) from which I deduced them. I noticed I listed Frogsterking's post 640 as my reason for scumreading him. Actually, when I made the post you quoted, I still thought I only remembered scumreading Frogsterking for post 640 and the post I misinterpreted. It is only while looking into the question I remember asking Frogsterking something that I didn't remember that I remembered my true reason for scumreading Frogsterking.

In conclusion, my current scumread on Frogsterking is over his obsession of what everyone thinks of the nightkill, while my reason for scumreading Frogsterking when I made the post you quoted was for post 640 and my very first suspicions on Frogsterking was because of his obsession over the nightkill.

Frogsterking, why do you seem the most obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill.

In the mafia format I have almost all of my experience in (livechat, roughly 5-20 minute days and 1-5 minute nights on average) I relied extensively on analyzing night kills to complement behavioral reads.

Part of the reason that method was useful to me was I understood how players of different levels approached their night choices in that format.

Things are different when players get a couple days to make their choice instead of a couple minutes and I'm not sure how much of what I know carries over to this format and I'm trying to learn quickly.

Actually, I just noticed that this answers the question "Why are you so interested in the nightkill?" and not the question I actually asked, which is "Why do you seem the most obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill?"

So that you don't get to pretend to not understand what I am trying to say, let me put it bluntly. Please answer the question (Why are you so obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill?)

I don't like the shade here where you assume that I intentionally misinterpreted your question, when you yourself just tripped over your own words and notes in the lengthy paragraph above trying to explain what exactly you're doing here. I'm not an expert on your thoughts so it's not necessary that I would pretend anything to misunderstand what you're saying. This inclusion in your case is unhelpful at best and scummy at worse.

The "obsession" angle looks like poor or made-up reasoning and is also unnecessary to the case. Analyzing the night kill is simply another means of finding the scum. You seem just as "obsessed" here as I do, you seem very over-reactive to the idea of analyzing the night kills, something that as a behavioral player I value more than the night kill analysis itself.

This is also my answer to your question, by the way: I did those things because analyzing the night kill and asking questions are both methods of scum hunting.

Your double-take going into this FoS looks strange as well. I'm tempted to give Casey town credit if Frederick flips scum either now or at a later date because it appears as though Frederick decided I would be his best push only after he read her most recent posts. I will elaborate on this in the next post.

The only way I can see Frederick being town here is if it's in his meta to FoS for night kill analysis as town or if it's a pre-emptive townie OMGUS because he feared I would push him after my long post #734 (which I was not planning.)

In case of the latter situation I could see an equal argument your play here is an example of a scummy OMGUS. At this point I would be the second townie you overreacted to in an OMGUS, the first being shelly, something which made me believe you might be an anti-town townie.

In case of the first situation of a TvT I'm imagining, where it's in your meta to FoS for night kills,

Frederick do you have any completed games on this site where you FoSed another player for night kill analysis and you were aligned with town?

I will unvote you if you can supply an example of this.

VOTE: Frederick

This also reminded me of something you said which is incongruent, Frederick:

@Frederick: what do you think about the Mush kill?

I think nothing of it.

You mean you weren't pleased that the player who tunneled you all game was killed during the night? Not even a little bit? And you allegedly kept a spreadsheet of all of our tells yet you don't bother to make any notes whatsoever about the night kill? This looks like a lie to me. I think you wanted to kill the discussion on this topic because it was inconvenient to you.

This type of play on Frederick's part is exactly what I was referring to about letting the scum force plays in the part I bolded below. Frederick, your scumread looks like something you're trying to force into the game because night kill analysis ultimately is not a scum tell it's a method of scumhunting and the situation you're introducing it as a scum tell is convenient for you to avoid blame.

Spoiler:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels uncomfortable with the dynamics of Shelly, Redados and Italiano. Redados has, at least, modified his play after having been called out to something that could be considered more pro-town, but Shelly is hyper-focused on Redados and Italiano is hyper-focused on Shelly. This doesn't help anyone else make any decisions at all, and might very well end up with two mis-eliminations to satisfy the paranoia of these three so we can actually get down to business.

I have no intent of listing reads quite yet, but this is not good play for town from Shelly and Italiano. I think they should back up and focus attention on other people altogether for a while. Especially Italiano, who hasn't so much as sniffed in the direction of other players, as far as I can tell.

Now then...



Shelly, if town "tunnels" someone, scum don't need to say much to come across as town that's just late to the party. "Yeah, I'm honestly here on this wagon. I have nothing to add, everyone else has made my arguments for me. I think it's the right idea." Scum shouldn't be allowed to direct the conversation either, but if town gets stuck on "YES WE HAVE THE ANSWERS" scum doesn't need to do anything except not rock the boat too much.



Frogster, you have a dependent chain of events for "scum forcing interactions" being a good idea, whether you recognize the chain or not.
First, town has to town read most of town.
Second, town has to mostly not town read at least one scum.
Third, town has to be mostly coordinating rather than throwing suspicion at or questioning each other.
Only if all three things are true does scum have to try to steer the ship, so to speak. I'd like to point out that we can't get reads on enough of the players to fulfill the first chainlink yet, and we are ALL bickering too much for the third link to be fulfilled.

Letting scum force interaction at this stage is a TERRIBLE idea.

I'm really not a fan of how you're spinning my desire to be able to get reads on the majority of players. It's making something that's fairly pro-town into a vehicle for highly pro-scum play, and that is just not a good look at all on you, particularly with how town read I seem to be.

I've mentioned before: I tend to jump the gun, and I am aware of that tendency. So I'm just going to ask if anyone else feels like my words and intent might be getting twisted for hidden motives here. Because I have that feeling, I feel it in my bones, and I don't like it at all.

VOTE: Frogsterking

I always feel more comfortable having voted, and this feels like the right place to rest my vote for the time being.



I also want to bring up that MagikHorse has made himself one of my favorites with just the recently-passed flurry of posts. These are direct, cutting posts that aren't over-determined or stuck on irrelevancies. Good stuff for town, though I have yet to feel comfortable giving reads out.



And last for now, notes on why I'm avoiding giving a player overview or a reads list for so long.

Remember how I mentioned pattern-matching before?

I'm seeing patterns in all of the active users. Some I'm curious about, some I just plain don't like, all of them I want to avoid drawing too much attention to until I have reached a conclusion about the patterns I'm seeing.

If you've posted more than 6 times, I'm considering you in some way. I won't tell you how or for what until I'm good and ready, because that would give away the patterns and make it too easy to disrupt the picture I'm building. I'm going to sit on these and see what comes of my approach before I try giving reads. So you'll all have to wait a little while longer.

I think your dependency chain is an accurate example of the possible late game scenarios I'm visualizing in which town can still win in case there is little aid from prs. I would describe your dependency chain as a win condition following good early town play. I'd imagine you can see how a chain like that is unrealistic on D1 as you pointed out, but could materialize later in a 3-way or 5-way lylo situation as a result of a good D1.

I'm interested in hearing your conclusions about the player patterns and the reads list later and I agree they will be more impactful given some time. I believe this is another benefit of using the full 10 days.

I assure you there was no deliberate attempt to spin what you were saying and my motivation for paraphrasing was to express what I thought you were saying so you could confirm (or in this case deny) that there was a mutual understanding.

I suspect there is an issue with communication rather than underlying ideas about the game because I agree with most of the points you've been making. I suspect the issue is a linguistic one and we are based on different definitions of what letting scum force plays or interactions means. In my mind "forcing an interaction" or "forcing a play" is usually a bad move for the side doing it because it implies the play was unnatural or awkwardly timed (hence it had to be forced in) and will be generally less effective. A "forcing interaction" that is dominant and controls the choices the other side has available is not what I was suggesting we want to allow others to be doing.

The tunneling trio you pointed out is a solid example of what I'm referring to about forcing an interaction (not a forcing interaction.) If the scum team decides to play that way that's fine with me but if it's the town doing that then there will be problems not only today but in the endgame as well.

I believe that Redados, Shelly and Italiano will be receptive to moving forward and focusing on other players. I also believe that the incoming replacements are more likely to be an asset than a liability.

What did you mean by "The tunneling trio you pointed out is a solid example of what I'm referring to about forcing an interaction (not a forcing interaction.)"

(added spoiler so others don't have to scroll past the original quotes)

I meant that the trio of Redados, Italiano and shellyc came in with preconceived feelings about each other and were skewing the discussion toward their point of view.

I was contrasting the early actions of these three with some type of play where one or more players are able to dominate the game, force the other players to respond to them or limit the actions of the other players in some way. I didn't feel like this was what they were doing because I felt like I could read their discussion and then respond to it as I chose.

I remember at this point in time I thought (incorrectly) the conflict between Mush and I was that Mush interpreted my statements about letting mafia force plays and make mistakes as allowing other players to dominate the game, and I was attempting to clarify my point of view in ways I thought might make sense to her.

[Frogsterking]

The scumread isn't over your obsession of the night kill. It is over your obsession of what others think of the night kill.

Analyzing the night kill and asking questions are both valid ways of scumhunting. Asking everyone their opinion also does not qualify as an obsession. I used similar methods of scumhunting on D1 when I asked all of the players who their current choice in a daykill would be. Your case here is quite the stretch.

[Frogsterking]

That actually lines up pretty well with what I have observed thus far.

UNVOTE:

That literally doesn't explain why you find me scummy?

The fact you're asking for an explanation instead of accusing me of being scummy (as though you're more worried that I cheated than if I really know if you're scum or not) is another tick in the scum direction from my point of view.

Not a fan of this.

By don't care I mean I don't care if I have to vote Rocknil or Lavaar, not that I don't care about the outcome of the game! I do want to win and I am town and I think either one of these is the best move.

My opinion of Frog is dropping each time he posts. This "I do want to win and I am town" phrasing is baffling.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Congratulations. You have made me suspicious.

Good vote.

I think Mush was killed to try and frame Frederick.

Has anyone even hypothesized this today?

I think Mush was killed to try and frame Frederick.

Has anyone even hypothesized this today?

Mush was out for Frederick's blood. If Frederick is on the scumteam they would probably need to kill Mush.

Oh look at that.

I'm feeling pretty confident that Redados, Italiano, and Lavar are town.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

Care to elaborate?

Originally, I started to scumread Frogsterking for his obsession of what everyone thinks of the nightkill. Then, Casey made the following post.

Okay so look at these.

Welcome to the town Casey!

Welcome aboard, Casey.

Welcome to the game Casey.

Italiano and Rock welcome me to the game / aboard, but you specifically welcome me to the

town

.

The post added more fuel to my suspicions. I first questioned Frogsterking's obsession over what everyone thinks of the nightkill. Meanwhile, I reread some part of the thread and misinterpreted a post Frogsterking made. I prepared to make a post to question Frogsterking on the post and saved it as a draft. Frogsterking appeared to answer the question of why he was so obsessed over what everyone thinks of the nightkill, so I dismissed it. I then posted the draft. After Frogsterking clarified the meaning of the post I misinterpreted, I actually didn't understand the clarification. However, while I started to make another post to further point out what was the problem with the post, I noticed that no such problem actually existed. Instead of questioning on an issue that was now evident to me was non-existent, I unvoted instead since I had no further reason to scumread him. Several hours later, I look at my spreadsheet with the list of all my reads thus far and the post(s) from which I deduced them. I noticed I listed Frogsterking's post 640 as my reason for scumreading him. Actually, when I made the post you quoted, I still thought I only remembered scumreading Frogsterking for post 640 and the post I misinterpreted. It is only while looking into the question I remember asking Frogsterking something that I didn't remember that I remembered my true reason for scumreading Frogsterking.

In conclusion, my current scumread on Frogsterking is over his obsession of what everyone thinks of the nightkill, while my reason for scumreading Frogsterking when I made the post you quoted was for post 640 and my very first suspicions on Frogsterking was because of his obsession over the nightkill.

This sequence of events is extremely scummy. You clearly "remember" why you were scumreading Frogsterking after you see that Casey FoSes Frogsterking. It looks as if Casey decided she FoSed someone else you would have refrained from pushing on me at all. The paragraph attempting to explain this away is confusing and appears contrived.

I also find it extremely unlikely someone detail-oriented enough to keep a spreadsheet of their notes on every player would have nothing to say about the night kill.

[Frogsterking]

It could also be an attempt to avoid a policy lynch.

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

Off the top of my head:

Pros:
In this game there is a higher chance of hitting scum because I think most players that are active are fairly pro town.

It makes our choice much easier today.

Cons:
May not make our choice any easier if we realize the scum are hiding in the more pro town players.

If we miss we will be in the same situation tomorrow as we are now except scum get a chance to eliminate one more player, so whatever conflict arises may be more in their favor tomorrow than it is today.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

[Frogsterking]

My bad, I forgot to include the unvote before-hand which made the sequence of events meme-able.

That actually lines up pretty well with what I have observed thus far.

UNVOTE:

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

Off the top of my head:

Pros:
In this game there is a higher chance of hitting scum because I think most players that are active are fairly pro town.

It makes our choice much easier today.

Cons:
May not make our choice any easier if we realize the scum are hiding in the more pro town players.

If we miss we will be in the same situation tomorrow as we are now except scum get a chance to eliminate one more player, so whatever conflict arises may be more in their favor tomorrow than it is today.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Now I remember why I was scumreading Frogsterking.

[Frogsterking]

And for the record, I think the associative part of Frederick's play being a scum tell depends more on Casey being town than it does on Rocknil being scum.

I am still townreading Italiano and I still townread you, so I am thinking we can try to find the scumteam in the remaining pool of four players based on how they have interacted. I do not think rocknil is scum with Fredrick because there is no need to open up the day with a vote on his scumbuddy. I also do not like how rocknil chose to ignore my vote on him.

Why couldn't Frederick have told Rocknil during the night to vote him at daystart?

[Frogsterking]

What are the pros and cons of a policy lynch? Like I said, I just can't imagine rocknil in a LimLo situation. That sounds awful. I would like to make that not possible by limming him today.

Off the top of my head:

Pros:
In this game there is a higher chance of hitting scum because I think most players that are active are fairly pro town.

It makes our choice much easier today.

Cons:
May not make our choice any easier if we realize the scum are hiding in the more pro town players.

If we miss we will be in the same situation tomorrow as we are now except scum get a chance to eliminate one more player, so whatever conflict arises may be more in their favor tomorrow than it is today.

This is also why analyzing the night kill is helpful. If scum believe that none of the players will analyze the night kill because they're afraid of wifom then they can just look at all of the player's reads list and kill the player most convenient for them to set up for lylo.

If they get called out on it then they're forced to make some kind of play the way Frederick is doing.