Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[Not_Mafia]

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.

His posts

[callforjudgement]

@ call for judgement - this feels like a well meaning post. can you see yourself not voting for Italiano today>

It's always possible that someone does something incredibly scummy, or someone posts a new argument that I hadn't thought of, and that that's sufficient to get me to change wagon. It's also possible that we need to scramble to agree on someone as deadline approaches (we only have a few days left!), and it's necessary to be flexible in such situations (often there's a need to compromise). However, I currently have a much stronger scumread on Italiano than on anyone else.

With respect to the discussion about Looker's replace-in: I think "I'm reading" along with an unvote is null because it's a very common thing for replacements to do. You can sometimes get an idea of the player's playstyle by looking at the next post after that. If someone spends a long time reading and then doesn't come to many conclusions, then they probably weren't really reading fully/properly (and may even have lied about the fact that they were reading). Unfortunately, I don't think that this is particularly alignment-indicative in general; some people just generally have a hard time getting into games. There are some people who have trouble getting into games as scum but not as town, but I checked two of Looker's games for meta purposes, and they acted in a similar way ("I'm reading" post, followed by a fairly bare-bones catchup post) in both the scumgame (Newbie 2016) and the towngame (Newbie 2009).

My opinion on Looker otherwise is very similar to Frogsterking's; I had a mild townread on SJReaver's later posts, and haven't picked up any particular tells either way from Looker's posts since replacing in.

[WaltertheDunce10]

So Buspray,
That was a person in 2145 who on D1 was being scumread a lot and had consistent votes on. He was later elimed and was a pr. The situation has changed and were different, but at the time I was thinking about that CFJ had been scumread through the phase consistently plus there was no real consistent cw. This no longer holds up due to the shift in gamestate. It was a reason for why I thought CFJ is town.
NM you are a pita to play with.
I must admit that my read on taylor has improved to a slight tr after a alight sr on her first posts. There seems to be better posts more recently.
A Nos, you said you felt cfj was gaslighting italiano then voted for him. Is there a reason for voting italiano then.

[WaltertheDunce10]

That should say 2154

[callforjudgement]

Also I do think that Nosferatu's recent posts are much more pro town, so at this point while I'm still skeptical of Nosferatu I'm happiest with where my vote is currently at because of my earlier read on Banana.

Have you gained any new reads/insight into the shelly/Banana slot since #488? That's quite an old read, so I'm wondering if anything's happened since to confirm your view or to make you re-evaluate (especially as your read on Gamma, in the same post, seems to have evolved somewhat).

[Nosferatu]

to be clear nos, my last post was sarcastic. also, is your vote on italiano sarcastic or serious?

sarcastic

[Nosferatu]

but tbh i null read italiano so while i would prefer someone else world won't end if this goes thru

[WaltertheDunce10]

but tbh i null read italiano so while i would prefer someone else world won't end if this goes thru

Who do you prefer Nos?

[Nosferatu]

thats kinda personal

[Tayl0r Swift]

ok nos is in my lynchpool

[Frogsterking]

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.

His posts

What about his posts?

[Raya36]

also worth noting that italiano is taking this opportunity of pressure on him and plausible counterwagon and NOT being opportunistic.

This statement really got me thinking. If you haven't already, I recommend reading Italiano and Walter in double ISO, following how they interact with each other.

The first wagon on Walter starts at #238 by Nosferatu. Italiano's next post, #266, is denouncing it. (At the time, I assumed that this was Italiano reading the situation the same way I was, and townread Italiano for it. I think I was wrong, though.)

Italiano had previously implied a townread or at least "no reason to think scum" read on Nosferatu (#234).
Walter attacked Nosferatu around the time Nosferatu voted Walter (#249, #257, #278).
Soon after, Italiano was attacking Nosferatu too (#281, vote in #294).

The Nosferatu wagon sits at four votes for a while. Then I derail it, based primarily on a gut read (#367).
Italiano places a (what is to me) surprising scumread on me in #381 and vote in #382. (This is the third vote, after RCEnigma and Nosferatu.)
Walter does not join this wagon (although he does ask lots of questions about it, that's natural when it's the largest wagon).
Eventually Walter calls me "70% certainty" of town (#614); this is technically a mild scumread (assuming a 10:3 setup, a hypothetically town Walter would think a perfectly null read was 75% likely to be town.)

The CFJ wagon sits at four votes for a while.
Then it starts shrinking, as Tayl0r moves to Walter (#634); that wagon's now the same size as mine (N_M voted Walter in #600).
Italiano reacts surprisingly strongly to this (#655), in effect complaining that the wagons should be on me and/or Nosferatu.
Italiano then defends Walter by attacking the wagon (#674, #675).

Walter earlier agreed with me that #655 is scummy (#659), but doesn't vote for Italiano.
As Tayl0r pointed out, there is notable pressure on Italiano but he has no interest at all in the counterwagon on Walter (instead, he's primarily been attacking me).

---

What I get out of all this is that Italiano is focused quite heavily on defending Walter. Whenever there's a wagon on Walter, Italiano votes the counterwagon (except that with this most recent wagon, the counterwagon to Walter is Italiano himself, and his response is to complain that people aren't on the wagons that previously collapsed!). Basically every time anyone scumreads Walter, Italiano attacks the

read

(but Italiano has only twice actually called Walter town, placing him top of a townread list in #381, without explanation; and giving a gut townread in #687). The attacks tend to be with weak or no reasoning, too (e.g. #674 attacks a read as "sheeping Not_Mafia", and you can't really sheep someone who never explains).

I think the most plausible explanations for all this are:
a) Italiano and Walter are scum together.
b) Italiano is scum (with Walter town), and wants everyone to think that Walter is scum alongside him, in the hope that we end up voting out Walter and Italiano can end up being vindicated by the townflip.

In either case, though, Italiano ends up as being scum. Unless someone can find meta evidence otherwise, I don't think it makes sense for a hypothetically town Italiano to defend Walter

this

hard based only on a gut read.

Actually I don't think this post comes from scum. This shows a true scumhunting mindset that I think would be really hard to replicate as scum, especially in that case knowing that the players in question are town.

[Nosferatu]

omg

[Nosferatu]

Actually I don't think this post comes from scum. This shows a true scumhunting mindset that I think would be really hard to replicate as scum, especially in that case knowing that the players in question are town.

would u say this is the first post from cfg u find to exhibit this quality

[Nosferatu]

why do i keep calling him that? i mean cfj

[Tayl0r Swift]

you realize we arent saying long post = town 100% right?

[Nosferatu]

u say that its a post only town would make but i can easily see scum making that post and i have seen scum make better scumhunting posts

[Nosferatu]

it is a totally average NAI post its not even scumhunting its literally a (totally skewed) timeline but yall wanna pretend it totally spews town like uhh what

[geraintm]

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

I don't understand what you mean. vig kill italiano?

I cant get a read on nosferatu at all. their posts are just...whiny

[geraintm]

thoughts on frogster

had a strong red on nosferatu earyl game, loads of long posts.
then switched and said gamma and banana were...but not the associated long posts with evidence.

back to long log posts on rc enimgma

528 - vague post hinting at scum but not disclosing any actual reads

weird read on CFJ about them being scum, but not wanting to lynch. instead focussing on nosferatu and banana

662 - raya is now scum

734 - wants to look at walter in case they are scum (and later asks permission from not mafia to join that wagon)

overall, they are throwing a lot of scum reads around. sticks with them but quickly moves onto the next shiny thing. not impressed

(tryng to go trough these in order of number of posts)

[geraintm]

thoughts on taylor swift

their entrance seems fine,i find their method of reading not townie or scummy just fine. except they manage to get two scum votes as they go through

679 - already said I dislike this when they group so many together as potential scum

690 - said already dislike them saying we aren't allowed to discuss their votes

by 730 have hard turned away from walter

thoughts - it was a good entrance, but posts have dialled back and now just seems in an style disagreement with nosferatu and I don't like the way they entered in hard against walter and now they aren't in their top 3.
I realise I already finding it easy to find bad things to say about everyone and not looking for good things.

[Raya36]

Actually I don't think this post comes from scum. This shows a true scumhunting mindset that I think would be really hard to replicate as scum, especially in that case knowing that the players in question are town.

would u say this is the first post from cfg u find to exhibit this quality

I wouldn't say the first but it's the one that shows that quality the strongest to me.

[Raya36]

it is a totally average NAI post its not even scumhunting its literally a (totally skewed) timeline but yall wanna pretend it totally spews town like uhh what

How is it not scumhunting? It's a timeline used to introduce and explain a scumread

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: geraintm

thoughts on frogster

had a strong red on nosferatu earyl game, loads of long posts.
then switched and said gamma and banana were...but not the associated long posts with evidence.

back to long log posts on rc enimgma

528 - vague post hinting at scum but not disclosing any actual reads

weird read on CFJ about them being scum, but not wanting to lynch. instead focussing on nosferatu and banana

662 - raya is now scum

734 - wants to look at walter in case they are scum (and later asks permission from not mafia to join that wagon)

overall, they are throwing a lot of scum reads around. sticks with them but quickly moves onto the next shiny thing. not impressed

(tryng to go trough these in order of number of posts)

This post is wrong. For example, in your description of 734 you talk about post 745 and post 760, incorrectly stating that I ask Not Mafia permission to join his wagon, when you can see for yourself in 745 and 753 that I'm asking him to explain his read on Walter, not permission to join his wagon.

The conclusion at the end about me throwing a lot of scum reads around and then moving onto the next shiny thing looks a lot like you, except you don't throw scum reads, you just throw shade. 769 reminded me of this other relatively recent post:

huh?

The unvote didn't alert me. The uptight entrance of "reading" did. The tone to me was almost like reading the thread was a burden to them.

this feels bollocks

Strange entrance by looker but that is one post.
I love reading.
655, is just really weird in that it sorta shows like cfj said a lack of reading/ disengagement.

nope, going to call you out too. nothing about looker's post was odd

frog's post 662 - I don't get this. feels a load of hot air, no real substance

Nosferatu - your posts stink.
you tag raya as scummy - twive, and don't go anywhere with that thought.
random vote on the banana slot
random vote on shelly

how bored are you? are you just randomly interacting with this game? I see no content from you at all. be better

at italiano - I don't get why you single out Not mafia as being ok>

has ayone played with call for judgement before? are their very earnest posts typical? do they normally post like this as town/hide when scum?

oof yeah i really wanna lynch in cfj, shelly, enigma, or walter. like really really. they cant all be scum but this is some serious opportunism, id be surprised if there arent at least 2 scum in there maybe even all three if walter is scum.

don't like posts like this. caling out a third of the game and saying there is likely to be a scum in there...well duh. it feels like a post they can circle back later to to say "look, I always thought they were scum"

i still feel like cfj will be easy to evaluate after some flips, but is a bit messy today. i am suspicious, but dont want to lynch there today. that said, VOTE: shelly

i dont think its in town's best interest to discuss my vote movement at this time, but im happy to discuss the merits of a vote on shelly or the merits of a vote on walter. im guessing raya will understand what i mean based on past mind-melding at the very least.

nope you don't get to do this. you don't get to say "we aren't allowed to talk about my very cryptic post". why are so many people in this game being like this??

It looks like you're throwing shade in my direction without reading or understanding my posts.

Most of your reads are just vague descriptions that don't always match the content of the post. It looks like you're lazy scum not bothering to fill in the details about your reads.

[geraintm]

@ frogster

Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch

I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.

This is blatantly a post where you are trying to get someone else to make the case for you to join their wagon. you might not like the way I phrased it "asking for permission" but is the type of post people use where they want to move their vote to another wagon, cant justify it themselves so want to get someone else to write something so they can go "oh yeah, good point, I didn't see it that way, I will join you"

you say I have said you throw a lot of scum reads around but you deny this

VOTE: Nosferatu
.

There was one post from sordoros I thought could be a scum tell because of its potential to be gloating:

Charmander just shot up to FoS #2 for his terrible defense of Nosferatu. Arguably it makes him even scummier than Nosferatu.

Frog, if nos is town, what are your scumreads?

It's difficult to imagine, I would start with Banana and Gamma for the strange townreads.

By the way guys at this point in time I have three serious scum reads and I'll disclose them another time. I also have one other very weak town read I'll ISO now.

VOTE: BananaCucho

I'm down for a Nosferatu or Banana lynch. I also scumread the CFJ slot because of his early interactions

There are three things I wanted to say this afternoon.

#1

I realized I have a feeling that Raya is scum

b]#3[/b] In the same spirit of being proactive and risk averse I'll point out a reason why I believe CFJ is scum

I don't have much new to add except that I'm tempted to do an ISO on the Walter slot because his alignment seems to be a point of contention.

Looker replaced into a slot I had a slight town read on and shelly replaced into a slot I was scum reading and on first glance neither has done anything yet that looks alignment indicative to me.

^^ to me looks like wants to see Walter as potential scum and shelly is scum

and you now vote for me.

for you to deny that you throw a lot of scum reads around and are constantly moving onto new targets is laughable.

but go ahead, explain how I haven't understood your posts...