Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Prism]

I don't like that weakness, and I want to actively push myself to overcome it, but it's best to answer questions like that quickly and honestly imo

[Tanner]

i think i'm +town on chara. i liked the take in 160, and even though i think i shouldn't be giving townpoints for 146, i still kinda do? the "our scumteam depended on the town frustration from no flips" thing strikes me as a weird thing for scum to write for some reason?

Tanner's above null for now. i don't want to put a lot of weight in where he falls on the spare/fight debate. i have concrete thoughts on this but i want Tanner back in the thread first, so you can ask me again after that happens.

why am i above null for you, assuming it isn't 47? also hi i am back

(ok, ok, besides tanner from earlier i also kind of like pooky, i just think there are some good vibes there. i want to like hectic more than i actually do rn tbh)

can you talk about your ~good vibes~ on pooky? i'm lowkey feeling nervous due to the push for spares

but i think my light tr is also half wanting him to be town so we can play town together as an apology.

<3
also no meme, puppy is feeling different than he did in that game, so guess i'm townreading him!

< obligatory complaint about the mechtalk getting in the way of forming reads here >

[Chara]

Prism: well, i appreciate that you answered all the same.

it's not the same thing, but it does remind me of how i can feel changes in my own playstyle. i'm continuing to press reads on weaker reasons in order to see them grow/generate readable content, but now i want to be more explicit about which reads i'd stake the game on and which are still in progress/unreliable. and interrogating my own reads both introspectively and in-thread with the read target. the latter i think i need to improve on. i never developed the "how to interrogate a player" skill early and now i'm having to learn it now.
the act of striking fast with early reads i still find useful in terms of content generation/gauging reactions.

i'm not sure how much of this is a genuine portrayal of my own play and how much of it is in my head, though.

[Chara]

hi tanner! why did you vote Lavender when you did? this question is what i was referring to in 158.

[Tanner]

hi tanner! why did you vote Lavender when you did? this question is what i was referring to in 158.

all their their posts up to that point (other than one) were early game shitposting (nothing against that), but once the discussion turned to mech-talk and deciding we should probably be fighting someone today, their "hmm what now?" (46) struck me as insecure scummy in a way? as if they didn't have anything to contribute to the discussion, either mech or gameplay, but also wanted to give an appearance of Being There.

[Morning Tweet]

i have a positive read on Chara/catboi/Prism and probably a slight one on Puppy/Tanner. Puppy moreso than Tanner. Also maybe redtea. So like catboi>Chara>Prism>Puppy>Tanner>redtea

Undecided so far on {Hectic, Lavender, Pooky, taylor, and Elements}

HEAL: catboi
HURT: Elements

I have no idea how Elements got Puppy changing his tune from 193. also sheeping Chara

Spoiler: this post span

makes me sad but i know when i'm beat, 4 SPARES is a no go
any of ya gonna work out the numbers for 1 to 3 SPARES?

anyway, Prism town because he did the math and was accurate before catboi revealed his spreadsheets
he made the effort but showed no working or proof to try and make it look impressive or get any towncred from it

i believe catboi when he says he wouldn’t reveal the EV working if he was mafia
only because he decided to out his info right after I made a huge case on 4 SPARES, where there was some uncertainty where town would go, and it wasn’t just guaranteed to be genocide anyway

mechanically 4 spares is sub-optimal but if we don't spare we're basically just playing normal mafia

yeah bud, that's honestly my main issue
hopefully we can make a 1-3 SPARE route work if the EV for that is acceptable

hectic who would you spare right now

hectic who would you spare right now

changing your tune a bit

Elements should have known the context for puppys post, he was just talking to Hectic about it 2 posts above it! I am curious as to what the intent of pointing this out really was

[Tanner]

Puppy moreso than Tanner.

is this because his avatar is cuter than mine? (つ﹏<。)

[Morning Tweet]

Puppy moreso than Tanner.

is this because his avatar is cuter than mine? (つ﹏<。)

i'm sorry i have a bias!! (>﹏<)

I think i like your post on Lavender, i like you being negative towards the spare route (like pointing out its flaws that weren't brought up til then)

im not sold yet tho. cute animal in avatar might have pushed you over the edge but alas

[Tanner]

i think our reads are ~more-or-less similar. i take that as a good sign? also can you talk about the Prism townread, is there anything other than mech-effort?

HURT: elements

[CantHateAPuppy]

tanner/puppy townbloc is a-go, this is not a drill! awoooooooooooga

[Morning Tweet]

i think our reads are ~more-or-less similar. i take that as a good sign? also can you talk about the Prism townread, is there anything other than mech-effort?

HURT: elements

My reads came after yours though (or at least after most people agreed those few are town), I think they're mostly consensus-y so far tbh. The mech talk is making this a bit tricky for me but I already went over that. I don't have great confidence in my reads as of yet

Prism's last few posts felt especially genuine to me

Spoiler: here

catboi I don't really scumread you and will probably move my vote soon, I think you can guess at my opinion of some of the last 2/3 pages but we should circle back later imo

anyway, Prism town because he did the math and was accurate before catboi revealed his spreadsheets
he made the effort but showed no working or proof to try and make it look impressive or get any towncred from it

I really want to hear more explanation on this. At this point, you've seen one of each of my games. What gives you this impression?

i have a comment on this too but i'll wait!

Prism, i had so much fun playing with you last time and i'm looking forward to doing so again.
any scumhunting thoughts yet?

Not really. I struggle to get reads early-even replacing into the last Undertale they were slapdash garbage just to get into swing-but tend to have extreme faith in the ones I do get.

I don't like that weakness, and I want to actively push myself to overcome it, but it's best to answer questions like that quickly and honestly imo

Unsure he pulls out the "No I don't have reads on them, I'm not happy about it, I'm working on it but I wanted to be honest" as scum

Yeah he could have but i'm leaning against it

Also this falls under the mech talk point, but somebody mentioned Prism did the numbers without even showing his work, so therefore he wasn't too concerned with looking good, he just wanted to have the right conclusion. I think that reflects well on him too

[Tayl0r Swift]

ill participate properly when you all decide what strategy we should do. im very much of the opinion that mech talk and EVs are pretty much NAI and using them to justify strategy is gonna let scum persuade us to do what they want more often than not. it seems to me that a fight day 1 and then sparing later days is a good idea, but i really havent thought about it that much

This attitude is really curious. Do you feel any of me, Hectic, or catboi are arguing EVs with scum intent? (ie. to push town into something scum wants)

If you're worried that scum is going to use EVs to persuade the town in a certain direction, essentially recusing yourself from the conversation and leaving it to others to decide without you-and giving the scum voices that much more weight-seems counterproductive imo.

nah but im mostly skimming the mech talk. im here to play mafia, and when you all are ready to do that let me know. unfortunately im not gonna be able to force myself to care about mech talk when its this mathematical. if the mechanics are simple and qualitative discussions are possible im here. but if you all wanna crunch numbers ill pass. i do enough number crunching outside this game already.

[Tayl0r Swift]

ill participate properly when you all decide what strategy we should do. im very much of the opinion that mech talk and EVs are pretty much NAI and using them to justify strategy is gonna let scum persuade us to do what they want more often than not. it seems to me that a fight day 1 and then sparing later days is a good idea, but i really havent thought about it that much

This attitude is really curious. Do you feel any of me, Hectic, or catboi are arguing EVs with scum intent? (ie. to push town into something scum wants)

If you're worried that scum is going to use EVs to persuade the town in a certain direction, essentially recusing yourself from the conversation and leaving it to others to decide without you-and giving the scum voices that much more weight-seems counterproductive imo.

nah but im mostly skimming the mech talk. im here to play mafia, and when you all are ready to do that let me know. unfortunately im not gonna be able to force myself to care about mech talk when its this mathematical. if the mechanics are simple and qualitative discussions are possible im here. but if you all wanna crunch numbers ill pass. i do enough number crunching outside this game already.

[Tanner]

My reads came after yours though (or at least after most people agreed those few are town), I think they're mostly consensus-y so far tbh. The mech talk is making this a bit tricky for me but I already went over that. I don't have great confidence in my reads as of yet

/shrug, perhaps. let me enjoy the early townblocc while it lasts goddammit

im here to play mafia, and when you all are ready to do that let me know.

bold of you to keep saying how you want to play mafia when the only read you've given so far amounts to "i like this person's avatar".

[CantHateAPuppy]

i kind of want to do more, but i also feel pretty ok atm. im ok with my townreads, i'm ok with my votes on elements, and i'm ok with my position on the fight/spare thing. not sure what else there is to do except wait for other people to firm themselves up a bit. (and then you can vote elements with me!)

[Tanner]

(ok, ok, besides tanner from earlier i also kind of like pooky, i just think there are some good vibes there. i want to like hectic more than i actually do rn tbh)

can you talk about your ~good vibes~ on pooky? i'm lowkey feeling nervous due to the push for spares

answer this in the meantime?

[catboi]

you've been all "we must fight" "fighting is the only path" and now you're asking about spares

Yes

so your tune has changed....

No

Lmfao

[CantHateAPuppy]

(ok, ok, besides tanner from earlier i also kind of like pooky, i just think there are some good vibes there. i want to like hectic more than i actually do rn tbh)

can you talk about your ~good vibes~ on pooky? i'm lowkey feeling nervous due to the push for spares

answer this in the meantime?

oh yeah, right sorry (<_<)

i went through to iso pooky and didn't find as much as i wanted tbh. ithink the vibes come through more during liveposting? in the context of the thread? i did like these posts:

Spoiler:

i think we can probly get to 4 good spares ez if we play with our hearts open

i have been given feedback that my more angry side is very bad and I am making an effort to be more radiantly optimistic in games instead

we must purge thoughts of violence from our hearts to defeat the evil

alternatively, elements could do something really awesome and we could realign into the cute animal avatar townblock alliance supreme

this would be beyond awesome if it worked

I think it will be more challenging to win the game via pacifism but I have faith in the goodness of our hearts shining through bright and beautiful

i just kind of like that "trust in the heart of the cards" "i assert i am obvtown" vibe. maybe that's kind of weak? i like that he's voting to self-heal (im doing that too, i think it's the obvious play but scum wouldn't be bold enough to do) but i guess i also want to see if he has anyone he wants to spare now that i think about it

@pooky: whose hearts are shining bright with good town spare vibes?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Puppy I have a list of people who I think are pure and brilliant but I am afraid to share this list for the bad people with evil intentions will surely try to murder us and stop our just quest

[Elements]

Spoiler:

HURT: elements

HURT: Elements

HURT: elements

HURT: Elements

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have a brilliant plan to try to win the game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have not thought this through in any way so it could be terrible

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

each day only one contestant "nominates" themselves to be judged by the collective town - placing his fate in the hands of his peers.

He shall write a long post detailing why he is worthy of being spared and healed.

Then all players will vote on this person's candidacy - either heal or hurt and the day will end with his healing or hurting.

so only those of us with the most pure of hearts should try this

[CantHateAPuppy]

hm. how would we agree on who gets nominated?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well one way would be to do first come first serve and hope the scum are too cowardly to volunteer themselves.

another way would be to do a casting call in the first 24 hours, all who volunteer themselves are then "healed" by their supporters. whoever has the most heals in the next 24 hours will become the nominee and face the ULTIMATE TEST by the entire town.