Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[catboi]

Also correct me if I'm wrong but was there not a conclusion that taking the neutral route is the least useful @taylorswift

I'm going to reiterate @everyone is neutral route (combined spare/fight)

not the worst possible route?

Don't want to drag this down too much further, but there is one, very specific case in which neutral is better, as I think I've said: if you get to 5p with 2 mafia still alive, you can spare someone, whoever you want (preferably your strongest read), and you get 2 free investigations, guaranteed, and town has a 1/3 shot of winning the game which isn't bad.

catboi I don't really scumread you and will probably move my vote soon, I think you can guess at my opinion of some of the last 2/3 pages but we should circle back later imo

໒( ͡ᵔ ▾ ͡ᵔ )७ Sure thing, buddy.

i just kind of like that "trust in the heart of the cards" "i assert i am obvtown" vibe. maybe that's kind of weak? i like that he's voting to self-heal (im doing that too, i think it's the obvious play but scum wouldn't be bold enough to do) but i guess i also want to see if he has anyone he wants to spare now that i think about it

I think he's entirely capable of that as scum and is willing to adapt to a game environment if necessary.

each day only one contestant "nominates" themselves to be judged by the collective town - placing his fate in the hands of his peers.

He shall write a long post detailing why he is worthy of being spared and healed.

Then all players will vote on this person's candidacy - either heal or hurt and the day will end with his healing or hurting.

so only those of us with the most pure of hearts should try this

Are we supposed to reward people for their ability to write posts towncasing themselves? ｢(ﾟ<ﾟ)ﾞ??

[Tayl0r Swift]

i volunteer

[CantHateAPuppy]

i nominate catboi

[catboi]

nah but im mostly skimming the mech talk. im here to play mafia, and when you all are ready to do that let me know. unfortunately im not gonna be able to force myself to care about mech talk when its this mathematical. if the mechanics are simple and qualitative discussions are possible im here. but if you all wanna crunch numbers ill pass. i do enough number crunching outside this game already.

චᆽච Okay, lemme ask: how do you plan to get reads? what do you expect your process to be for playing mafia this game?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i volunteer

me too !

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i nominate catboi

I think we should stick to self-nominations

[CantHateAPuppy]

this is like some pirate king shit where everyone votes for themselves so it ends in a tie, so i'm definitely voting for someone else so, yo ho yo ho, catboi is pirate king for me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean you can vote for catboi if he wants to actually do it lol

[Tayl0r Swift]

nah but im mostly skimming the mech talk. im here to play mafia, and when you all are ready to do that let me know. unfortunately im not gonna be able to force myself to care about mech talk when its this mathematical. if the mechanics are simple and qualitative discussions are possible im here. but if you all wanna crunch numbers ill pass. i do enough number crunching outside this game already.

චᆽච Okay, lemme ask: how do you plan to get reads? what do you expect your process to be for playing mafia this game?

presumably you all plan on playing mafia and not just talking mech? ill play when you all start.

[Tanner]

HURT: taylor

[Prism]

I don't think you're understanding what's happening.

Me/catboi are inviting you to play the game. You seemed to think that mafia would be more inclined to push town in directions based off mech, so I invited you to utilize that approach to read me/Hectic/catboi.

After you declined to do that, catboi is now using a broader question that lets you explain how you want to play, who you're looking at, or any number of other things you want to talk about.

Declining both of these invitations with "I'll play when everyone else does" is a bit frustrating.

[Tayl0r Swift]

what AI content would you like to discuss?

[Prism]

Respectfully, you've been tossed 3/4 bones by various people, and now had it outlined for you exactly what those bones were explicitly.

Here are starter q

[Prism]

I don't even know how I accidentally submitted that

Here are some starter questions:

-Hectic pushed for a spare whose EV is objectively terrible. Earlier, you seemed to think mafia will use EV trickery to push things to their advantage. How do you interpret this? He seemed to make a lot of less concrete arguments for it.
-A lot of people are townreading me/catboi just for trying the numbers. Do you agree with those, or think they're junk?
-Chara's been giving plenty of reads. How do you feel about them, or do you agree with those reads?

Literally the possibilities are endless here. The entire point of catboi's question was for you to explain what you're looking for or

presently thinking about the players

, or at the very least invite you to think how the figurative sausage of reads get made rather than assume that someday they'll pop from thin air

[catboi]

@Elements:

In your last Undertale setup game, as town you came out arguing hard against people wanting to go a pacifism route and argued about the downsides it had with regard to the lack of flips from voting. What's different now?

[Lavender]

I'm not good with Day 1s ah~
In the End We're Doing 1-3 Spares it Seems? (*o*)?

[redtea]

wooh wooh Wall Incoming wooh wooh

anyway, Prism town because he did the math and was accurate before catboi revealed his spreadsheets
he made the effort but showed no working or proof to try and make it look impressive or get any towncred from it

I really want to hear more explanation on this. At this point, you've seen one of each of my games. What gives you this impression?

I gotta say it is a bad take on Hectic's part. The spreadsheets show that he wasn't baselessly echoing Prism for cred but legitimately corroborating.
Both catboi and prism are well tr'd at this point though so I suppose it doesn't really matter

i have a positive read on Chara/catboi/Prism and probably a slight one on Puppy/Tanner. Puppy moreso than Tanner. Also maybe redtea. So like catboi>Chara>Prism>Puppy>Tanner>redtea

Undecided so far on {Hectic, Lavender, Pooky, taylor, and Elements}

HEAL: catboi
HURT: Elements

I have no idea how Elements got Puppy changing his tune from 193. also sheeping Chara

Spoiler: this post span

makes me sad but i know when i'm beat, 4 SPARES is a no go
any of ya gonna work out the numbers for 1 to 3 SPARES?

anyway, Prism town because he did the math and was accurate before catboi revealed his spreadsheets
he made the effort but showed no working or proof to try and make it look impressive or get any towncred from it

i believe catboi when he says he wouldn’t reveal the EV working if he was mafia
only because he decided to out his info right after I made a huge case on 4 SPARES, where there was some uncertainty where town would go, and it wasn’t just guaranteed to be genocide anyway

mechanically 4 spares is sub-optimal but if we don't spare we're basically just playing normal mafia

yeah bud, that's honestly my main issue
hopefully we can make a 1-3 SPARE route work if the EV for that is acceptable

hectic who would you spare right now

hectic who would you spare right now

changing your tune a bit

Elements should have known the context for puppys post, he was just talking to Hectic about it 2 posts above it! I am curious as to what the intent of pointing this out really was

Puppy,

was

clearly humoring Pooky,

but

I saw it as Elements being wary about puppy making an inquiry in order to refer back to it if he makes a change of opinion on fighting/sparing down the line. Like, yeah it can be posed as "just humoring him" now, but later Puppy could reframe it as "no I was actually curious and after hearing his opinion I thought fuck it sure". imo i would've let it play out before pointing fingers in order to catch him in the act. Though uh. Puppy may... be going on with the act right now.
My brain isn't supplying sentences to me easily right now, hope that makes sense.

Unsure

[Prism]

pulls out the "No I don't have reads on them, I'm not happy about it, I'm working on it but I wanted to be honest" as scum

Yeah he could have but i'm leaning against it

the wording seems to be implying it, but to be sure, this is based off of meta? I haven't played any games with him (iirc) so.

[redtea]

now this

each day only one contestant "nominates" themselves to be judged by the collective town - placing his fate in the hands of his peers.

He shall write a long post detailing why he is worthy of being spared and healed.

Then all players will vote on this person's candidacy - either heal or hurt and the day will end with his healing or hurting.

so only those of us with the most pure of hearts should try this

i just

this can only end badly. You all realize this can only end badly?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nope

[redtea]

.-.

[redtea]

tfw you have to wake up before noon to interact with everyone



at least i have teddy
the sparebear

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am full of love and joy

you can all trust me to be a innoocent

[Elements]

@Elements:

In your last Undertale setup game, as town you came out arguing hard against people wanting to go a pacifism route and argued about the downsides it had with regard to the lack of flips from voting. What's different now?

The vast majority of posts have just been about sparing. Only the one saying me, hectic, and pooky should be spared was pacifism indicative.
I also like to think I have matured as a player since then and my play style has changed. But that's self meta so feel free to ignore it

[Tanner]

I'm not good with Day 1s ah~
In the End We're Doing 1-3 Spares it Seems? (*o*)?

are you going to at least try to actually play?

i just

this can only end badly. You all realize this can only end badly?

add this to my list of "things i shouldn't give townpoints for but i do anyway"

[catboi]

I'm not good with Day 1s ah~
In the End We're Doing 1-3 Spares it Seems? (*o*)?

.( ̵˃﹏˂̵ ) Are you a baddie this game, Lavender?