Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Isis]

Line

[Morning Tweet]

each day only one contestant "nominates" themselves to be judged by the collective town - placing his fate in the hands of his peers.

He shall write a long post detailing why he is worthy of being spared and healed.

Then all players will vote on this person's candidacy - either heal or hurt and the day will end with his healing or hurting.

so only those of us with the most pure of hearts should try this :)

Maybe this could work later in the game but like A.) tons of ppl are going to nominate themselves rn and B.) there isn't a whole lot of tangible reasons for a lot of people

Like if say taylor nominated herself (which she did). Then what. I dont have a read on taylor. i seriously doubt she can present some kind of self towncase at this point that would help me much

So then I just have the act itself to judge off of I guess. I would nominate myself as either alignment just because of the sheer unlikeliness of the plan working and it'll look sort of good on me if im scum.

[Morning Tweet]

Here are some starter questions:

-Hectic pushed for a spare whose EV is objectively terrible. Earlier, you seemed to think mafia will use EV trickery to push things to their advantage. How do you interpret this? He seemed to make a lot of less concrete arguments for it.
-A lot of people are townreading me/catboi just for trying the numbers. Do you agree with those, or think they're junk?
-Chara's been giving plenty of reads. How do you feel about them, or do you agree with those reads?

Literally the possibilities are endless here. The entire point of catboi's question was for you to explain what you're looking for or

presently thinking about the players

, or at the very least invite you to think how the figurative sausage of reads get made rather than assume that someday they'll pop from thin air

mmmmm this is an insightful post. Agree taylor could use her "EV will be used to deceive" stance to her benefit here -- but I'm not sure if she's or just town who doesn't want to pore through the mechanical talk.

I think you are in the right that she has lots of stuff to talk about if she puts her mind to it, and it's somewhat concerning that she is taking more of a "Game starts when mech talk ends" stance -- but I can sort of sympathize i guess

Oh also let me explain my level of certainty on catboi a bit more-- sure he put a lot of effort in and it looks nice, but this in particular i am *inclined* to believe:

All I got is: The quick estimate Pooky gave I do no give out town points for (regardless ty for your contribution) and the ones who went the extra mile (catboi, Prism). Maf wouldn't fuckin bother, or think to, anyway. Esp. with how "focusing on game mechanics" is looked at.

（ΦωΦ）For the record, I ran those numbers pregame and you should absolutely not townread effort in that vein, but the difference in EV is so significant that I wouldn't have bothered outing it as mafia because I'd be torpedoing my own team's chances

And not just this -- there's something more

If catboi had arrived to the conclusion that sparing is the better EV for town by far, and then said this comment, I'd trust it less. After all, even if catboi is hurting his team EV-wise by revealing the correct town strategy, if he can grab that spare, it's huge for them.

But he's not. He's telling us to fight. Which is helping town EV by far. If catboi is scum, the towncred he is grabbing here is useless-- he's not going to get spared, and now he's going to have to explain why he never gets nightkilled

[Hectic]

[Morning Tweet]

I have no idea how Elements got Puppy changing his tune from 193. also sheeping Chara

Spoiler: this post span

makes me sad but i know when i'm beat, 4 SPARES is a no go
any of ya gonna work out the numbers for 1 to 3 SPARES?

anyway, Prism town because he did the math and was accurate before catboi revealed his spreadsheets
he made the effort but showed no working or proof to try and make it look impressive or get any towncred from it

i believe catboi when he says he wouldn’t reveal the EV working if he was mafia
only because he decided to out his info right after I made a huge case on 4 SPARES, where there was some uncertainty where town would go, and it wasn’t just guaranteed to be genocide anyway

mechanically 4 spares is sub-optimal but if we don't spare we're basically just playing normal mafia

yeah bud, that's honestly my main issue
hopefully we can make a 1-3 SPARE route work if the EV for that is acceptable

hectic who would you spare right now

hectic who would you spare right now

changing your tune a bit

Elements should have known the context for puppys post, he was just talking to Hectic about it 2 posts above it! I am curious as to what the intent of pointing this out really was

Puppy,

was

clearly humoring Pooky,

but

I saw it as Elements being wary about puppy making an inquiry in order to refer back to it if he makes a change of opinion on fighting/sparing down the line. Like, yeah it can be posed as "just humoring him" now, but later Puppy could reframe it as "no I was actually curious and after hearing his opinion I thought fuck it sure". imo i would've let it play out before pointing fingers in order to catch him in the act. Though uh. Puppy may... be going on with the act right now.
My brain isn't supplying sentences to me easily right now, hope that makes sense.

Unsure

[Prism]

pulls out the "No I don't have reads on them, I'm not happy about it, I'm working on it but I wanted to be honest" as scum

Yeah he could have but i'm leaning against it

the wording seems to be implying it, but to be sure, this is based off of meta? I haven't played any games with him (iirc) so.

Hm, okay. Maybe I'm just overreacting because the comically large span of posts they dragged it out made it seem more serious than it was.

I was a little worried about that but also Chara having an earlier scumread on Elements tipped me over the edge

And nah it's not meta on Prism. More of a soul thing, i guess. Basically i just felt like he was being genuine in his lost-ness as opposed to acting it out

[redtea]

each day only one contestant "nominates" themselves to be judged by the collective town - placing his fate in the hands of his peers.

He shall write a long post detailing why he is worthy of being spared and healed.

Then all players will vote on this person's candidacy - either heal or hurt and the day will end with his healing or hurting.

so only those of us with the most pure of hearts should try this

Maybe this could work later in the game but like A.) tons of ppl are going to nominate themselves rn and B.) there isn't a whole lot of tangible reasons for a lot of people

Like if say taylor nominated herself (which she did). Then what. I dont have a read on taylor. i seriously doubt she can present some kind of self towncase at this point that would help me much

So then I just have the act itself to judge off of I guess. I would nominate myself as either alignment just because of the sheer unlikeliness of the plan working and it'll look sort of good on me if im scum.

Those are good points too. To add on, this format really just seems like giving maf free reign to unabashedly garner "supporters"/tr's. It puts all the players on the spot, pushing them to go with their gut feeling- especially on D1. Anyone who sings pretty enough could get themselves a spare.
I'm not in favor of ever utilizing this plan, but

D1

? No.

[redtea]

*utilizing this plan ever

[redtea]

Oh I already said "ever", I just put it before.
Well read whichever way you prefer, I'm going to go wake myself up.

[Hectic]

[Prism]

???????

#221 and multiple pages since you last checked in

If you don't feel like playing right now sure but this makes it seem like there's nothing for you to do until people come back

[Prism]

HURT: Hectic I was considering doing this earlier anyway and it's better than hanging around on catboi

[Hectic]

everyone's gonna come back after the marathon ends...
i can try and elaborate on my read on you though...
it's not based on meta and is an independent read... i can't remember much of your play from the hydra minigame game...
the scum-motivation for working out the odds and posting them is little due to the required effort... i would have expected some kind of proof working or grab for towncred...
the lack of it makes me think you were working it out for good faith reasons...

[Prism]

Ah yes, everyone being the other characters that collectively make up the mind of Hectic, lmao. My vote sticks for now.

[Hectic]

anyway... i'm bad at reading the thread without my friends...
so when everyone comes back is when they will catchup...
when the marathon ends...

[Prism]

Nifty hat. Well, don't mind me, just going to be opportunist scum parking on you knowing you won't really respond for three days.

[Hectic]

[Lavender]

I'm not good with Day 1s ah~
In the End We're Doing 1-3 Spares it Seems? (*o*)?

are you going to at least try to actually play?

Of Course! Just don't expect too much...I'll try y'knowwwww~

I'm not good with Day 1s ah~
In the End We're Doing 1-3 Spares it Seems? (*o*)?

.( ̵˃﹏˂̵ ) Are you a baddie this game, Lavender?

(0o0) Are you doubting me comrade?!
Baddie Lavendar Doesn't Exist!~

[Tanner]

Of Course! Just don't expect too much...I'll try y'knowwwww~

when?

[Lavender]

I'm always trying (o.o;)
But I don't have much direction for the beginnings

[Tanner]

i didn't think i'd ever have the urge to vig 1/3rd of the players in a given game, but it's actually happened.

[Hectic]

[Prism]

Chara's actually coming off as a lot more proactive than I remember from Undertale 2.0. One of the big issues I had with their early (scum) game was preemptively hedging their thoughts and being a lot more subtle/offcolor with trying to ingratiate themselves. Some also really just didn't seem to follow. This one they're a lot more straightforward, and their flow and reads here are understandable to me. In Undertale 2.0, I repeatedly failed to understand their thought processes and really leaned heavily on two facts: 1) They played mediator in a TvT 2) They also scumread my deathtunnel target. I remember thinking their thought processes were beyond me really understanding without deep meta, which honestly probably sealed the game.

In comparison, I like this Chara.

[Chara]

my first thought upon reading this post was "alright, now to try and emulate my town self that Prism is recognizing so i can keep getting townread."
Undertale S ruined me.

[Chara]

hi tanner! why did you vote Lavender when you did? this question is what i was referring to in 158.

all their their posts up to that point (other than one) were early game shitposting (nothing against that), but once the discussion turned to mech-talk and deciding we should probably be fighting someone today, their "hmm what now?" (46) struck me as insecure scummy in a way? as if they didn't have anything to contribute to the discussion, either mech or gameplay, but also wanted to give an appearance of Being There.

i agree, and this was also my guess on why you voted Lavender, though i was not this specific. the way you jumped in and voted the slot was enough to get you above null for me, it was a pretty natural move.

i've liked Tanner since then. he's direct and wants to solve. that's good enough for now.

[Chara]

Tweet: if Prism is scum he's doing an excellent job of making me like him.

Pooky, i do not like your plan, because i'd feel compelled to nominate myself because i trust none of you yet, and could definitely win. but i really want to murder today. and also i don't want to sit in the Spared PT and watch the game happen without me.