Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[Frogsterking]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1.

[Frogsterking]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1?

[Frogsterking]

Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action.

What does this mean?

I am not scum. Also, Redados sent me his Friendly Neighbor message N1.
I will reconsider my reads, but the scumteam might just be Casey and Fred? Idk

What reads are you reconsidering here? The ones from the beginning of D2?

[LavarManos]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1.

Why would I do that? I did allude to it in my first post of the day 2 here.

I feel honored

What do you mean by the Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action? yes, I do need to reconsider my townread on Italiano since it is LYLO.

[Frogsterking]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1.

#1

Why would I do that? I did allude to it in my first post of the day 2 here.

I feel honored

#2

What do you mean by the Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action? yes, I do need to reconsider my townread on Italiano since it is LYLO.

#1

To avoid suspicion. Redados died the next night.

#2

I was trying to allude to my role in a way that didn't get me killed. The tracker only gets a "guilty" if that player was the one to do the kill or night action. In the format I'm used to playing you'd call that player's choice the hammer, because it's selected like a vote, and will cause the night to end if they were the last one to make their choice, like a hammer.

I'm not sure if selecting a night action here is also called a hammer because it's not selected through votes, but whatever.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1.

#1

Why would I do that? I did allude to it in my first post of the day 2 here.

I feel honored

#2

What do you mean by the Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action? yes, I do need to reconsider my townread on Italiano since it is LYLO.

#1

To avoid suspicion. Redados died the next night.

#2

I was trying to allude to my role in a way that didn't get me killed. The tracker only gets a "guilty" if that player was the one to do the kill or night action. In the format I'm used to playing you'd call that player's choice the hammer, because it's selected like a vote, and will cause the night to end if they were the last one to make their choice, like a hammer.

I'm not sure if selecting a night action here is also called a hammer because it's not selected through votes, but whatever.

It is not called a hammer here, but is called "performing a night action" instead.

Anyway, why did you reveal who you targeted so soon? I could see some benefit if you kept who you targeted a secret.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Actually, on looking further back the part about Frogsterking killing MUSHSHAGANA to frame me makes less sense to me now because Frogsterking didn't even start the day attempting to get rid of me, stating instead that he didn't think I would have killed MUSHSHAGANA in post 593. Another duo was hypothesized instead. However, I still think the perspective slips are there and not imaginary unless Frogsterking could give an explanation for my observation in post 732.

Yes..

If you are town I would heavily encourage you to reconsider the things you said because I don't believe they make any sense.

What was the perspective slip in 732?

I currently believe Frogsterking may have night killed MUSHSHAGANA with the attempt to drop suspicion on ItalianoVD and me. He believed that everyone will dabble in night kill analysis and, when no one did, he had to do it himself. Some posts Frogsterking has made that support my hypothesis are post 615 and post 732.

Another reason I am scumreading Frogsterking is for his numerous perspective slips that he has attempted to explain away every single time. There is one in post 732 ("I believe I overestimated her end of day suspicion against me as well which is causing me to rethink my interpretation of events." Why is he overestimating MUSHSHAGANA's end of day suspicion against him if he is town? Shouldn't he be underestimating it. This was so subtle I actually read it underestimating the first time I read the post.), post 799 (details in post 823) and post 640 (I may be putting a tad-bit much weight in this one as a similar statement was made by one of the mafia members in this post.). I think that is all of it, but I may find some more.

[Frogsterking]

This was the reason for my use of the word overestimate vs underestimate:

Last minute baseless speculation:

Consider a Frogster and Frederick scumteam. They play off of each other constantly, they reinforce each other; even Frogster’s criticism seems anticipated and expected.

If Shelly flips green... consider the value of a Frogster and Frederick scumteam and compare it with how their interactions and play have been.

Also, my survival or death has no bearing on this baseless speculation whether you want it to or not, to prevent Town from getting suckered into a wildly off base round of game solving nonsense. Even if scum actually use worried about this, don’t read into it. Follow my earlier play if I die tonight.

The first time I read through this post I did not read the bolded comment and believed the post as a whole to be a last-minute FoS of both Frederick and I. After doing the night kill analysis I realized that MUSH considered this read more speculative than the other ones, hence I'd OVERestimated her suspicion toward myself.

[Frogsterking]

Lavar did you consider not outting that Redados visited you N1.

#1

Why would I do that? I did allude to it in my first post of the day 2 here.

I feel honored

#2

What do you mean by the Tracker follows the one who hammers the night action? yes, I do need to reconsider my townread on Italiano since it is LYLO.

#1

To avoid suspicion. Redados died the next night.

#2

I was trying to allude to my role in a way that didn't get me killed. The tracker only gets a "guilty" if that player was the one to do the kill or night action. In the format I'm used to playing you'd call that player's choice the hammer, because it's selected like a vote, and will cause the night to end if they were the last one to make their choice, like a hammer.

I'm not sure if selecting a night action here is also called a hammer because it's not selected through votes, but whatever.

It is not called a hammer here, but is called "performing a night action" instead.

Anyway, why did you reveal who you targeted so soon? I could see some benefit if you kept who you targeted a secret.

That's good to know for the future. In hindsight I think I would phrase it that way instead.

I thought about it during N2 and decided this was best in case of a very aggressive CC. I did not take into consideration the result of the night kill during my claim either. It's definitely possible I could've played this better.

[Frogsterking]

Also in hindsight I noticed that I got pushed a lot for perspective slips on D2 and I wonder if it's due to how I write and whether it was exacerbated by my drinking.

[Casey]

Fred are you going to continue to question the unCC'd power role or are you going to do something useful?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Fred are you going to continue to question the unCC'd power role or are you going to do something useful?

Do something useful. Even that was an attempt to do something useful that turned out to be useless.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Also in hindsight I noticed that I got pushed a lot for perspective slips on D2 and I wonder if it's due to how I write and whether it was exacerbated by my drinking.

I think it was just me who pushed you for that.

[Frogsterking]

Also in hindsight I noticed that I got pushed a lot for perspective slips on D2 and I wonder if it's due to how I write and whether it was exacerbated by my drinking.

I think it was just me who pushed you for that.

To be fair it was Casey who pointed them out and then allowed you to push them.

[ItalianoVD]

Well that wasn’t surprising, I figured it’d be me or Redados to get killed. Rocknil is a little surprising.

I’ve done my reading though. I’ve actually read 759 many times over and it’s still confusing to follow.

@Frederick: So are you saying you initially scumread Frogster for his obsession over what people thought of the nightkill and then 640 solidified your scumread or vice versa?

Actually, while that was what I was saying, I misremembered. I actually scumread Frogsterking for not seeming to attempt to solve the game, then 640 made me more suspicious. The rest of what I recounted was more recent and so I doubt I misremembered anything else.

I find it strange not to remember why you scumread somebody. Like it wasn’t a real scumread to begin with.

He already said earlier he has memory issues.

I thought that’s why he was keeping notes.

[Frogsterking]

Also in hindsight I noticed that I got pushed a lot for perspective slips on D2 and I wonder if it's due to how I write and whether it was exacerbated by my drinking.

I think it was just me who pushed you for that.

Also in hindsight I noticed that I got pushed a lot for perspective slips on D2 and I wonder if it's due to how I write and whether it was exacerbated by my drinking.

I think it was just me who pushed you for that.

To be fair it was Casey who pointed them out and then allowed you to push them.

While she MLed Rocknil lol.

[Frogsterking]

Lavar I'm going to need you to do some amateur detective work or this day is going to be super painful for me.

[Frogsterking]

Also Casey what is your current opinion of the scum team?

[Frogsterking]

I have more experience with NKA, is anyone here amateur, pro or otherwise experienced in VCA?

[Frogsterking]

Lavar I'm going to need you to do some amateur detective work or this day is going to be super painful for me.

Professional detective work would be even better by the way.

[ItalianoVD]

Fred are you going to continue to question the unCC'd power role or are you going to do something useful?

Are you?

[Frogsterking]

Italiano do you have any experience with VCA?

[ItalianoVD]

I have more experience with NKA, is anyone here amateur, pro or otherwise experienced in VCA?

Pretty experienced. My vca is trash. I’ve been wrong both times (shellyc, rocknil), so if we go by vca, I don’t look too good. I’ll try to see what’s happening elsewhere, but I wouldn’t have the moral authority to make a case.

[ItalianoVD]

Although I didn’t know it was called vca until I got on here. We just didn’t call it that where I’ve played.

[Frogsterking]

I have more experience with NKA, is anyone here amateur, pro or otherwise experienced in VCA?

Pretty experienced. My vca is trash. I’ve been wrong both times (shellyc, rocknil), so if we go by vca, I don’t look too good. I’ll try to see what’s happening elsewhere, but I wouldn’t have the moral authority to make a case.

Oh okay. What about your opinion on the Lavar slot now that you've seen the flips from yesterday?