Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[Frogsterking]

Arsonist is not a possible role in a Normal. The list of roles which are allowed is on the wiki, at Normal Game. Any roles that aren't listed there cannot be in the setup.

The flavour is not supposed to be related to the setup. (In most Normals, the flavour is designed by the moderator, but the setup is designed by someone else. According to #0, the setup for this one was designed by the backup moderator.)

A Friendly Neighbour Neighbour (with no confirmation about the alignment of their neighbour) isn't all

that

powerful, not to the extent that scum would need unusual powers to offset it. You could put another two roles of equivalent power into the same setup, against a three-Goon team, and the resulting setup would only be slightly townsided.

Fair enough.

[Raya36]

At this point it's very unlikely that Italiano is scum; a Friendly Neighbour claim is hard to substantiate as scum (you have to keep claiming to target your buddies and/or the nightkill), and easy to prove as town (that's literally what the role does, proving itself as town). It would be helpful to verify that the claim has actually been substantiated before day ends, though, otherwise it'll lead us to be paranoid into future days.

If scum knew that Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour, that would make him an obvious nightkill choice. So it's also useful to know whether Walter knew Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour prior to the end of Night 1; if he did, that somewhat reduces the chance that Walter is scum.

@Tayl0r: mods (and playerlists!) differ on how much utility a T/S neighbourhood gives to town and/or scum. Some mods think that such a neighbourhood helps town (you can quiz your neighbour in the PT, figure out they're scum, and sometimes even figure out their buddies by the way they talk over the game with you); I once caught 2 out of 3 members of a scumteam because I was in a neighbourhood with one of them. But recently, players have had a tendency to assume that neighbourhoods are T/T, so some mods/reviewers will balance a T/S neighbourhood as though it helps scum and put in extra town power to compensate.

This is a good post. I definitely agree we should have the receiver of the FN message claim by the end of the day so we can confirm italiano is town. And it's also important to know if Walter knew about Italiano being the FN.

I did not know about Italiano being the FN prior to N1.
I only knew it when he posted it in thread here.

Thank you

Scratch my post where I assumed Walter knew

[Looker]

Spoiler:

At this point it's very unlikely that Italiano is scum; a Friendly Neighbour claim is hard to substantiate as scum (you have to keep claiming to target your buddies and/or the nightkill), and easy to prove as town (that's literally what the role does, proving itself as town). It would be helpful to verify that the claim has actually been substantiated before day ends, though, otherwise it'll lead us to be paranoid into future days.

If scum knew that Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour, that would make him an obvious nightkill choice. So it's also useful to know whether Walter knew Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour prior to the end of Night 1; if he did, that somewhat reduces the chance that Walter is scum.

@Tayl0r: mods (and playerlists!) differ on how much utility a T/S neighbourhood gives to town and/or scum. Some mods think that such a neighbourhood helps town (you can quiz your neighbour in the PT, figure out they're scum, and sometimes even figure out their buddies by the way they talk over the game with you); I once caught 2 out of 3 members of a scumteam because I was in a neighbourhood with one of them. But recently, players have had a tendency to assume that neighbourhoods are T/T, so some mods/reviewers will balance a T/S neighbourhood as though it helps scum and put in extra town power to compensate.

This is a good post. I definitely agree we should have the receiver of the FN message claim by the end of the day so we can confirm italiano is town. And it's also important to know if Walter knew about Italiano being the FN.

What motivated your assumption that Walter knew beforehand? Were you saying that Italiano just told him outright?

Spoiler:

• Who did ItalianoVD target N1?

---

ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing

Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.

UNVOTE:

This doesn't make sense to me. How can you assume that Italiano targeted Walter?

This is on the assumption that Italiano told Walter (since he townread him so strongly). Waiting in confirmation of this.

Taking into consideration Italiano's age, I'm not seeing that as an expected practical play. Especially on D1. I feel like if Italiano was going to tell anybody, he would've told the main thread when they were about to flip him.

Player List:
ItalianoVD claims hood
callforjudgement claims no hood
Gamma Emerald
Looker
geraintm
Raya36
Frogsterking
Nosferatu
RCEnigma
Tayl0r Swift
WaltertheDunce10 claims hood

I'm not in a hood or PT as of right now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like there's a pretty good chance scum is between cfj or Walter though

Why this, exactly?

[Gamma Emerald]

Since we're making assumptions.

Assumption 1: frog is in a hood
Assumption 2: this game is not 9-4
Assumption 3: I can end this game by day 3 potentially.

I'm a PT cop and have a result on someone that is not frog/walter/Italiano.

Interesting. I’ll give you one shot to tell me who your result is on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, just to play along: no hood.

[Tayl0r Swift]

uh to be clear (i did already say this) im not in a hood.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I don't believe that the wagon was scum driven. I believe it wasn't intended by scum.

The TFN neighborhood thing makes sense given the theory I floated yesterday about the setup being a 9-4, with more prs to come for town. I'm actually imagining this setup now as a series of two-person town neighborhoods vs four scum. Maybe one neighborhood is one town one scum.

In my current view of the game CFJ is angry because he believes shelly lost the game for scum, and given it's a traditional 10-3 setup, I believe there were no scum on the shelly wagon, and one on each of the others:

Gamma on the geraintm wagon, CFJ on Walter wagon and shelly on her own Italiano wagon.

Given a 9-4 I think there was a single scum on the shelly wagon, and my first guess is tayl0r. She doesn't seem very happy that a mafia got lynched D1 + a VT died, and she seems a little anxious for town cred.

frogster, why would you think that the setup is a series of two-person neighborhoods vs four scum if you arent in a neighborhood? this post also made me assume you are in a neighborhood.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I missed geraintm's claim:

Player List:

ItalianoVD claims hood
WaltertheDunce10 claims hood

RCEnigma (implicit no hood claim?)
Nosferatu

Looker claims no hood
taylor claims no hood
gamma claims no hood
geraintm claims no hood
Raya36 claims no hood
Frogsterking claims no hood
callforjudgement claims no hood

[Tayl0r Swift]

RCEnigma are you ascetic or do you have any other modifiers?

[ItalianoVD]

Panic from both the tayl0r and CFJ slots.

what sort of panic do you think im in? what exactly do you think is causing me to panic?

I don't know the type or cause of what I'm perceiving to be panic, it's just how I would describe the tone of your posts. I'd expect town to be somewhat relieved or even emboldened over the results of the previous night and day alone. Then fmpov Italiano brings even more good news for town with his claim and I didn't read a positive emotional response from you then either.

If there was a scum on the shelly wagon, which I don't believe is necessarily true, based on your D2 opening I think you're the most likely.

At this point in time if the setup is 10-3 I believe the scumteam is Gamma, CFJ and shelly, if the setup is 9-4 I would add you to that list.

Do you still think this with 897 in mind?

[ItalianoVD]

I missed geraintm's claim:

Player List:

ItalianoVD claims hood
WaltertheDunce10 claims hood

RCEnigma (implicit no hood claim?)
Nosferatu

Looker claims no hood
taylor claims no hood
gamma claims no hood
geraintm claims no hood
Raya36 claims no hood
Frogsterking claims no hood
callforjudgement claims no hood

Unless RCEnigma and Nosferatu claim they’re in a neighborhood, it looks like Walter and I are in the only one. And is it safe to assume that you have a power role as well Taylor? Going off 897, I’m guessing it’s not a scum aligned one.

[ItalianoVD]

I don't understand this. you say the reason scum get lynched day one is due to error or luck, but you toss in a 3rd reason which is scum drove it?

I just find it very hard to believe that 7 townies eliminated Banana/shellyc when multiple people including myself townread or slightly townread the slot. But it makes sense now that I look back on my interactions with Banana. I also know that according to vca we will be able to tell if the wagon was scum driven later on in the game if we have a couple a mislynches in a row. I guess for now, I could place it on the backburner and look offwagon.

[Tayl0r Swift]

I don't understand this. you say the reason scum get lynched day one is due to error or luck, but you toss in a 3rd reason which is scum drove it?

I just find it very hard to believe that 7 townies eliminated Banana/shellyc when multiple people including myself townread or slightly townread the slot. But it makes sense now that I look back on my interactions with Banana. I also know that according to vca we will be able to tell if the wagon was scum driven later on in the game if we have a couple a mislynches in a row. I guess for now, I could place it on the backburner and look offwagon.

if you think scum was on the wagon, who is the scum?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Votecount 1.FINAL

shellyc(7)

~ Tayl0r Swift(48), Frogsterking(47), ItalianoVD(69), WaltertheDunce10(75), Nosferatu(85), RCEnigma(67), geraintm(74)

-- HAMMER

WaltertheDunce10(3)

~ Raya36(60), Not_Mafia(29), callforjudgement(70)

geraintm(2)

~ Gamma Emerald(82), Looker(56)

ItalianoVD(1)

~ shellyc(70)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)

to me the only possible scum on the wagon would be frogster and nosferatu. frogster may have put a distancing vote and then gotten trapped as the wagon gained momentum and nosferatu may have been a reluctant bus vote towards the end. off-wagon i'd look at looker, and then maybe raya and gamma. i was so convinced raya was town yesterday, but raya's posts today have made me seriously doubt that.

also italiano if you townread shelly why did you vote there?

[Nosferatu]

not in a hood o/

[Tayl0r Swift]

also since i think everyone has posted and no one has claimed to receive the message, italiano if you targeted me last night i didnt get the message but im not counterclaiming, i think there may be another explanation.

[Nosferatu]

i feel like the wagon wasn't scum driven why would scum bus shellyc when there's almost no cred to gain she literally just flaked

[ItalianoVD]

I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?

Or we can just vote you off.

pour quoi?

@Taylor: I am scumreading Gamma, just so you know.

why?

-An uninspiring iso

-Early day 1 interaction with Banana and Walter: He was okay answering Banana’s pointless questions (45), but got on Walter for asking pointless questions (191). His explanation in 240 made no sense to me. He put merit in Banana’s questions but disregarded Walter’s and they were equally as unproductive.

-The inconsistency on Walter in 842 and 843.

-Potential offwagon scum[/list]

[ItalianoVD]

I don't understand this. you say the reason scum get lynched day one is due to error or luck, but you toss in a 3rd reason which is scum drove it?

I just find it very hard to believe that 7 townies eliminated Banana/shellyc when multiple people including myself townread or slightly townread the slot. But it makes sense now that I look back on my interactions with Banana. I also know that according to vca we will be able to tell if the wagon was scum driven later on in the game if we have a couple a mislynches in a row. I guess for now, I could place it on the backburner and look offwagon.

if you think scum was on the wagon, who is the scum?

I’m trying to figure that out now. If I don’t find evidence to support my theory then I will let you know.

Votecount 1.FINAL

shellyc(7)

~ Tayl0r Swift(48), Frogsterking(47), ItalianoVD(69), WaltertheDunce10(75), Nosferatu(85), RCEnigma(67), geraintm(74)

-- HAMMER

WaltertheDunce10(3)

~ Raya36(60), Not_Mafia(29), callforjudgement(70)

geraintm(2)

~ Gamma Emerald(82), Looker(56)

ItalianoVD(1)

~ shellyc(70)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-06 11:18:30)

to me the only possible scum on the wagon would be frogster and nosferatu. frogster may have put a distancing vote and then gotten trapped as the wagon gained momentum and nosferatu may have been a reluctant bus vote towards the end. off-wagon i'd look at looker, and then maybe raya and gamma. i was so convinced raya was town yesterday, but raya's posts today have made me seriously doubt that.

Well I don’t think it’s Frogster and probably not Nosferatu. Could be RCEnigma or geraintm, but that would take some real digging. Now that I’m talking about it though, it probably makes more sense that scum was offwagon. So then how much of the day 1 elimination was good scumhunting and how much of it was luck? Oh and we’re pretty much thinking the same on Raya, although I was thinking it yesterday.

also italiano if you townread shelly why did you vote there?

Well I townread you and Frogsterking so I figured you saw something I didn’t see and comfortably followed.

also since i think everyone has posted and no one has claimed to receive the message, italiano if you targeted me last night i didnt get the message but im not counterclaiming, i think there may be another explanation.

Hmmm. If that’s what you’re saying then it’s a weird setup. Are you able to say what role you have? If you don’t feel you should, don’t. The person I targeted knows who they are and I would rather them confirm. Before the day is out the town will know who I targeted whether confirmed by me or them.

[Tayl0r Swift]

RCEnigma cant really be scum - hes claiming a guilty on someone (at this point given people's PT claims). for RCE to be scum it would require him to be sacrificing himself in at best a 1-for-1 trade. thats a pretty bad play as scum, especially at this stage in the game where scum is already down a goon and town is only down a VT.

as for gerain, i was skeptical yesterday but i feel that gerains posts today have basically towntold. i think it would be worthwhile for everyone to re-read day 1 or at least shelly's posts to see what can be gleaned.

i guess im ready to VOTE: looker
this slot was my second scumread yesterday after shelly and has done nothing to change that.

im happy to claim at some point but i dont think theres any reason for me to full claim right now. ill say that my role is interesting given enigma's role.

[Tayl0r Swift]

i guess i can also add that my night action last night failed.

[geraintm]

RCEnigma cant really be scum - hes claiming a guilty on someone (at this point given people's PT claims). for RCE to be scum it would require him to be sacrificing himself in at best a 1-for-1 trade. thats a pretty bad play as scum, especially at this stage in the game where scum is already down a goon and town is only down a VT.

as for gerain, i was skeptical yesterday but i feel that gerains posts today have basically towntold. i think it would be worthwhile for everyone to re-read day 1 or at least shelly's posts to see what can be gleaned.

i guess im ready to VOTE: looker
this slot was my second scumread yesterday after shelly and has done nothing to change that.

im happy to claim at some point but i dont think theres any reason for me to full claim right now. ill say that my role is interesting given enigma's role.

just popping in quickly befor ebed

i dont get this. you understand that RCenigma has a guilty on someone and we are all waiting for them to come back and tell us who so we can lynch them...and you go and vote looker? I cannot see us doing anything else today besides killing whomever enigma tells us to

[Tayl0r Swift]

RCEnigma cant really be scum - hes claiming a guilty on someone (at this point given people's PT claims). for RCE to be scum it would require him to be sacrificing himself in at best a 1-for-1 trade. thats a pretty bad play as scum, especially at this stage in the game where scum is already down a goon and town is only down a VT.

as for gerain, i was skeptical yesterday but i feel that gerains posts today have basically towntold. i think it would be worthwhile for everyone to re-read day 1 or at least shelly's posts to see what can be gleaned.

i guess im ready to VOTE: looker
this slot was my second scumread yesterday after shelly and has done nothing to change that.

im happy to claim at some point but i dont think theres any reason for me to full claim right now. ill say that my role is interesting given enigma's role.

just popping in quickly befor ebed

i dont get this. you understand that RCenigma has a guilty on someone and we are all waiting for them to come back and tell us who so we can lynch them...and you go and vote looker? I cannot see us doing anything else today besides killing whomever enigma tells us to

the eventual lynch will be whomever enigma tells us almost certainly. but that doesnt mean we just stop scumhunting and wait for day 3... im gonna keep looking for scum and pressuring and voting, especially before enigma has claimed. scumpoints to you for not wanting to do any work.

[GeorgeBailey]

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