Umlaut's Mini Normal Review, September 2020

[implosion]

I just /inned to mod a mini normal (again!). Here's the setup information.

Roles:

• 2x
  Mafia Ascetic
  
  1x
  Mafia Traitor
  
  1x
  Town Checker
  
  1x
  Town Loyal Jailkeeper
  
  1x
  Town Day 4 Innocent Child
  
  1x
  Town Nurse
  
  4x
  Townie

Mechanics:

• Days are 10 IRL days, nights are 2 IRL days
  
• Majority-only elimination mechanics
  
• Daytalk

Notes:

• The only part of this setup I'm really wed to is Mafia Ascetics vs. Town Checker; the rest is all up for tweaking.
  
• The Loyal modifier on the Jailkeeper is there so that they'll know a deathless night can't possibly have been caused by jailing the Mafioso who executed the nightkill. (That would be the case anyway, but with this modifier the Jailkeeper knows it.)
  
• I'm going to include information about the Traitor in the scum PT rather than in role PMs, if that's okay. This is so I don't have to figure out how best to redact it from their PMs on flip.

Spoiler: Role PMs

Mafia Ascetic

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Mafia Ascetic

.

You and your teammate(s) share a private topic in which you can talk during all phases of the game, as long as you are alive.

Each night you and your teammate(s) may together choose one living player to shoot and kill. You must specify which of you carries out the shot.

You cannot be targeted by any non-killing action.

You win when the Mafia is the sole surviving faction, or when nothing can prevent this.

Mafia Traitor

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Mafia Traitor

.

You know the Mafia are {MAF1} and {MAF2}. However, you have no ability to communicate privately with them.

You win when the Mafia is the sole surviving faction, or when nothing can prevent this.

Town Checker

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Checker

.

Each night you may

check

one player. You will be informed whether this action succeeds (but the action has no other effect).

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Town Loyal Jailkeeper

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Loyal Jailkeeper

.

Each night you may

jail

one player. That player will be protected from kills during the night, and will also be unable to take any actions.

Your ability can only be used on Town-aligned players; if you target a Mafia-aligned player, nothing will happen.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Town Day 4 Innocent Child

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Day 4 Innocent Child

.

If you are alive at the start of Day 4, you will be openly confirmed as Town-aligned.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Town Nurse

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Nurse

.

Each night, but only after a Doctor has died, you may

protect

one player from a single kill attempt.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Townie

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Townie

.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Spoiler: Result PMs

Checker (result)

You checked {PLAYER}.

Checker (no result)

You failed to check {PLAYER}.

Spoiler: Rules post

Rules

None of these rules supercede or contradict the Forum Rules and Guidelines.

---

Tl;dr

• This game is Normal.
  
• Days are
  240 hours (10 days)
  ; nights are
  48 hours (2 days)
  .
  
• Standard 48/24 prod timers; naked prod dodges are not counted.
  
• Standard majority-only elimination mechanics.
  
• Private threads have daytalk.

---

Conduct

1. Don't use
   orange
   , it's my color.
   
2. Play to win.
   
3. Don't discuss the game outside of the game until it's over.
   
4. Don't flame. Don't harass. Don't use insults that target minority, disadvantaged, or legally protected classes.
   
5. Keep interpersonal disputes out of the game thread.
   
6. Don't quote or misquote private communications from the moderator.
   
7. Don't use encryption, tiny/hidden/unreadable text, or anything that could be easily confused for such.
   
8. All replacement requests will be taken as serious, irrevocable, and immediate. Once you request replacement you are no longer a player and may not post.
   
9. Don't game the rules, pretend to break the rules, or intentionally test the limits. All pretended violations will be dealt with identically to actual violations.
   
10. Don't break the rules of any other ongoing game in this thread.
    
11. Don't argue moderator actions in the game thread. If you want to dispute a ruling, do so via PM.

---

Game mechanics

Day

• Days begin with a deadline of
  240 hours
  (10 days).
  
• Days will end when one of the following events occurs:
  • The deadline is reached.
    
  • A
    yeet
    (elimination) or
    no-yeet
    (no-elimination) is achieved.
    
  • A town-aligned player is modkilled.
• Votes should be made via the vote tag: “[vote]<playername>[/vote]” or “[v]<playername>[/v]”. Full player names or initial segments thereof are preferred.
  
• When more than half of living players are voting for the same player, that player will be
  yeeted
  (eliminated) and the day will end. Votes are irrevocable once a majority is achieved.
  
• You may vote not to yeet by voting for “No yeet”. When half or more of living players do so, the day will end without a yeet.
  
• If the day reaches deadline without a majority, there will be no yeet.
  
• I will interpret malformed votes according to my own discretion. In general, if it looks like a vote, I will probably count it as a vote. I reserve the right to edit malformed votes for easier counting.
  
• When a majority vote has been achieved but not yet recognized by the moderator, the game is in
  twilight
  . Players, including the yeetee, may continue to post during this period.
  
• Under certain circumstances I may elect to extend the deadline. I will announce this in thread if it occurs.

Night

• Nights will last
  48 hours
  , or until all living players give me their approval to end the night early.
  
• During the night, you should be unable to post in the public game thread. If for some reason you are able, doing so is still against the rules.
  
• Mafia night abilities should be submitted in the Mafia's private thread. Factional kills must specify which mafioso carries out the kill.
  
• Town night abilities should be submitted via PM.
  
• Use of active night abilities is optional unless otherwise specified in the role PM; if no action is submitted, no action will occur.

---

Activity requirements

• Players who do not confirm within
  48 hours
  of receiving their role PM will be replaced.
  
• Players who do not post any game-related content for
  48 hours
  in a single game-day will incur a prod.
  
• Players who do not post any game-related content for
  24 hours
  following a prod will be replaced.
  
• Players who incur three prods will be replaced.
  
• “Prod dodges” (posts with no game-related content) will be disregarded for purposes of the prod timer.
  
• If for any reason you are temporarily unable to meet these requirements, you may declare V/LA status
  in thread
  and be excused. V/LA declarations must include a definite end date.
  
• Notwithstanding V/LA status, any player who does not post at all for
  7 days
  of consecutive day time will be replaced.
  
• These are minimal requirements, not recommendations; please keep the game active.

---

Sample role PM

At least one player will receive the role of

Townie

and the following role PM:[/font]

Welcome to Mini 2156! You are a

Townie

.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

[implosion]

Primary: mastina
Secondary: Umlaut

[Umlaut]

Ego.

[Umlaut]

Primary: mastina
Secondary: Umlaut

Uh

[callforjudgement]

I'm the secondary reviewer for this one, I think. (At least, if I'm not, then why do I have access to the PT?)

[callforjudgement]

My main concern with the basic idea behind this setup is that Ascetic isn't a role particularly tied to the Mafia (although Mafia Ascetic is more common, Ascetic Townie is also perfectly reasonable), so even though the Checker is likely to figure out what their purpose is (checking for Ascetics), they're unlikely to figure out what their results mean. Based on that, I think that town doesn't have nearly enough power to balance the setup (even despite the weakened scumteam). It doesn't help that the Jailkeeper, in effect, makes the Checker Paranoid upon targeting them.

That said, I do like the Loyal Jailkeeper as more of a standalone role (as the only protective, effectively confirming players as town if it successfully protects them).

I'm not sure if it's possible to fix the setup while still keeping the basic idea behind it, given that it's pretty much inherently modWIFOM. You could make the Mafia team into a more normal scumteam and make the Checker Loyal; that would be equivalent to the ascetic scumteam, but give the town a much clearer indication of when they could expect success versus failure on the Checker action, but I'm concerned that it might be moving too far away from your vision of the setup. (Even after making that change, town would probably need more power to balance.)

[Umlaut]

I will confess part of my motivation is "since I suggested this Checker role and ended up getting it whitelisted I should at least use it for something"

I have no problem just giving town more power and I don't mind if that turns the Checker/Ascetic interaction into more of a minor detail than a centerpiece of the setup. It's hard to make any investigative PR really useful while keeping the Mafia Ascetics, though; do you think it's possible to balance purely with non-investigative roles?

Ideas off the top of my head:

• Add a pair of masons
  
• Make the game 13p and add a Vigilante (either full or 2-Shot, probably doesn't make a difference which)

[callforjudgement]

Investigative roles don't need to get guilties on scum; getting innos on town is enough.

It should be possible to balance (even overbalance) with non-investigatives, though (although one issue is that you'll probably need to add killing power, which may make the game end too quickly for the other power roles to accomplish much). (I'm not very clear on the balance impact of a Traitor, so don't have a clear idea of exactly how much is needed.)

It's probably more interesting if you balance it with investigatives, though, because it gives a secondary use for the Checker: letting the more powerful investigatives know who their night actions will work on. I think that would work much more neatly at 13p, so that the setup balance isn't horribly dependent on the Jailkeeper stopping a kill.

[implosion]

whoa why did i type umlaut

[implosion]

as the apparent secondary reviewer, i demand umlaut figure this out.

[Umlaut]

As secondary reviewer I say that not only is this setup perfect but the creator should receive some sort of monetary award for such a breathtakingly excellent design

[Umlaut]

I'm going to wait for Mastina's input, but if we want to add a town investigative then I might be partial to an Informed Rolecop who knows there are no Mafia Goons (so vanilla results become innos).

[mastina]

Initial thoughts are that the setup is scumsided right now--traitor weakens the scumteam significantly, but the town only has two real power roles, with one of them having a fair chance to never even activate (the d4 ic), and neither able to really give the town much of an edge.

Given there's only four VTs (thus, only four innocents possible), an informed Vanilla Cop (would need to be Vanilla Cop, not Rolecop, because Rolecop gets a guilty on the traitor and gives

too

much info, swinging things the other way into townsided) who's informed of no goons does seem like a good suggestion, want cfj's thoughts there.

[callforjudgement]

Wouldn't a Neapolitan produce the same results as an Informed Vanilla Cop, more elegantly?

Assuming that we add a Neapolitan or Informed Vanilla Cop without removing any players (so that the setup becomes 13p and there are still four townies to investigate), the setup would be scumsided against three regular Mafia. I'm not sure what sort of balance impact the Traitor has, but suspect it isn't as large as is generally considered – the main risk is that the scum nightkill them, which seems somewhat unfun for both the scum and the Traitor. I think the setup might be better if you make the Traitor Bulletproof and the town just a little stronger to compensate (e.g. move the Innocent Child to D3).

[Umlaut]

Want to note here that the Day 4 IC is already better in 13p because the game is guaranteed to reach Day 4 unless town has already won.

I think the most important disadvantage of a traitor is not that the scum might accidentally kill them but that they are endgamed when the other two scum die, so town doesn't actually have to find them at all.

[Umlaut]

Are we waiting for something from me here?

I think Informed Vanilla Cop is just a shade better than Neapolitan simply because it knows more about the setup, but I agree there's something to be said for compactness.

Here's another setup proposal trying to incorporate both your suggestions. The change from Nurse to Neighbors is because I need one more player for 13p but we're wanting to keep it at four Townies.

• 2x
  Mafia Ascetic
  
  1x
  Mafia Bulletproof Traitor
  
  1x
  Town Checker
  
  1x
  Town Loyal Jailkeeper
  
  1x
  Town Neapolitan
  
  1x
  Town Day 4 Innocent Child
  
  2x
  Town Neighbor
  
  4x
  Townie

I will say I'm a bit worried this Mafia is

too

weak in a 13p (they can lose Day 2 if they are unlucky), but I'll defer to your judgment on that.

[callforjudgement]

Well, Town can't get a hard investigation result on anyone here, except for Neapolitan on VT; every single other piece of information has multiple possible ways to explain it. That means that I doubt the setup is overpowered for town if they do win D2, then it'll almost certainly be as a consequence of excellent scumhunting rather than of any help from the setup.

Scum do have a bit of a problem when it comes to claiming. That said, VT would be safe as a claim in this setup, and it's probably the most likely claim for them to try, so I don't think we need to give them any help.

Any decisions about what to do next would need to come from mastina (who needs to either approve this setup or suggest a correction to it); she hasn't been online recently. If she doesn't turn up in a day or two, I'll take over (and would probably accept this setup as-is).

[callforjudgement]

(Well, a VT claim makes scum vulnerable to the various Cop-alikes, but scum claims don't normally need to last more than a night or two anyway.)

[Umlaut]

In anticipation of the setup possibly being approved, here are the new role and result PMs.

Spoiler: Role PMs

Mafia Bulletproof Traitor

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Mafia Bulletproof Traitor

.

You know the Mafia are {MAF1} and {MAF2}. However, you have no ability to communicate privately with them.

If anyone attempts to kill you during the night, the kill will fail.

You win when the Mafia is the sole surviving faction, or when nothing can prevent this.

Town Neapolitan

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Neapolitan

.

Each night you may

investigate

one player. You will be informed if they are a

Townie

(a town-aligned player with no special abilities) or

not a Townie

.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Town Neighbor

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Town Neighbor

.

You and your neighbor {PLAYER} share a neighborhood, in which you may communicate privately during all phases of the game, as long as you are alive.

You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction.

Spoiler: Result PMs

Neapolitan (Townie result)

You discovered that {PLAYER} is a

Townie

.

Neapolitan (non-Townie result)

You discovered that {PLAYER} is

not a Townie

.

Neapolitan (no result)

You failed to investigate {PLAYER}.

Two possible quibbles:

• If there is worry about possible confusion regarding the Neapolitan results, I can change "Townie" to "Vanilla Townie" throughout the game even though I believe Townie is an acceptable synonym for Normal games. I'd prefer not to do this because I've been using just "Townie" lately when possible and on the off-chance someone is tracking my mod meta I would rather not tip my hand that there was some reason I had to change it.
  
• The Town win condition as written arguably implies that the presence of a lone Traitor would prevent the town from winning, which is not the case. If this isn't considered a problem then so be it, but if so then I'm open to alternate wordings.

[callforjudgement]

It's probably simplest to write the Neapolitan PM (and Neapolitan results) as "vanilla

Townie

"; that way, the player knows that the vanilla-ness is important, but the role name is "Townie". There might be potential confusion in the way you're doing it at the moment, but using "vanilla" as an adjective rather than a name should fix both any confusion about the results, and any issue with your role naming.

The easiest fix to the win condition problem is to modify the Traitor role PM: "If there are no other remaining Mafia members, you will die" or something like that.

Apart from that, I'm OK with the role PMs.

[Umlaut]

I'll go with "(vanilla)

Townie

" to extra-emphasize that Vanilla is not part of the role name. I can repost the whole modified set of PMs here if you like but I think we agree on how they'll look.

Traitor role PM, take three:

Mafia Bulletproof Traitor

Welcome to Mini Normal {NUMBER}! You are a

Mafia Bulletproof Traitor

.

You know the Mafia are {MAF1} and {MAF2}. However, you have no ability to communicate privately with them.

If all other Mafia-aligned players have died, you will be

endgamed

and exit the game (thus the Mafia will lose).

If anyone attempts to kill you during the night, the kill will fail.

You win when the Mafia is the sole surviving faction, or when nothing can prevent this.

[callforjudgement]

If I were the primary reviewer, I would be willing to approve this. But I'm not (unless mastina gets replaced), so I can't.

[implosion]

I'll let you approve it since she hasn't posted in a bit and consider it approved.

[callforjudgement]

/approve

I'm not so sure I'm qualified to balance this sort of setup, but I can't get it any closer by myself.

[mastina]

Sorry, meant to come on yesterday but stuff came up.
I also approve of the balance tho, because I feel like this does hit the mark. Updated to most recent role PMs also seem good to my eye.