Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Prism]

Feels a bit late imo catboi but I guess you don't work on my schedule. Should also be a clear next place to look based off of what you've said.

That readslist from Hectic confuses me. lements slot still at bottom, extremely puzzling Lavender read but will check the referenced game later. Ordering of people below MT begs many questions. Maybe I'll like this more when I actually wake up.

[Prism]

My TSwift dart throw read is pretty bad, should revisit the slot more seriously

[Hectic]

Town-Lavender:

Just going to write what I think as I hop through pages and read.

Marksman-Seems okay, probably my bias on them asking me questions. Because I do that...

Nono-I have no clue, really I don't. Others think they're town so, that's it.

Chemical Elements-Liked him in the beginning mainly because of the VC posts, but I don't like the fact that he thinks all people on the Wey-Wagon were town, it doesn't make sense as I said before. Also, they have a lot of quote blobs, just a lot. They dunked Hayasaka who was on Wey's wagon, with no context as to why, perhaps they just agreed with Marksman "We need a dunk"?

(ლ(¯ロ¯"ლ)) innocentvillager-Still don't particularity like them, but now it's mainly because I'm confused while reading their posts, they keep calling people Supreme Leader and makes it hard to see who they're referring to.
Blah I can't follow their train of thought. Actually, I HATE how they refer to people as Leader, I can't tell who's who. I hope I don't do this.
I dislike their hellbrooks vote after Hayasaka flip. As well as their reaction to said flip.

Raya36-Uhm, honestly everytime I read their posts my mind goes blank, they interact a lot, that's ok yeah. I tried to read their thoughts, got stuck on them thinking Hiraki was town for the same reasons I thought they were evil.

Casey-Mainly seems all right, actually really fine. If their scum I'll be shocked, they made pretty pictures too! Generally they seem to be proactively helping town.

Isis-I like the way their playing this, it feels the point of view of a town person playing this. Honestly, their posts give me more motivation to actually do something XD. (Btw you accidentally voted me twice in the past o.O)

Almost50-I'm associating the way their acting to a previous game they replaced-in as a town, so this makes me think they're town as well. But I've realized that I always think A50 is town lately. Which is uh, not good when they're actually evil.

Hiraki-I really think this slot is a bad? Weird? Their voting doesn't make sense, it seems like they're just trying to get by. They defended Wey, I mean I guess this isn't inherently bad, but I don't think it's good.


I noticed Casey actually asked me a question, "Have you made any dishonest mistakes so far?"
Not that I know of no.
Er I'm guessing dishonest mistakes mean non-genuine ones.
All of my mistakes are just really really stupid mistakes. QwQ

Who the heck is Fredrick????????????????????????????????

I just hope I'm not completely and utterly wrong on everything. (＠_＠)
If you need me to expand on a read just ask. ~(>_<~)

PE: Ack, more posts (｡T ω T｡)

Scum-Lavender:

Subject: Newbie 1931: Philip K Dick Game Over

Lavender - Slight townlean, but really doesn’t post enough to make this clear in my head

. . . :?:

I'm sorry the reply broke, that was Spangled's readlist

Can you give your own on the whole board.

I am assuming that means my read list on everyone.
Teacher - Seems to be actively scum hunting and is engaging, town-lean
Godmid - Is using the advice given to try and do better as well as hunting, town-lean
Agador - Not much activity, nothing really shown that screams ‘scum’ or ‘town’, null
Urap - Robb from before was hunting in their own way which was pretty aggressive , but Urap seems to be behaving as they were in the last game, slight town, kinda null
Spangled - Seems to be cooperative and is somewhat scum hunting, not much though, slight town-lean, mostly null
NMSA - Very short posts, not much detail, and not really doing much, slight scum-lean
CC - While they confused me earlier, Godmid stated this is just how they play so for now, null
Nav - They are already making scum-teams which may be like scum hunting, but tbh I have no feeling on Nav, null

What do you think of Lav?

Well, lav was invisible last game ( :lol: ) and tbh I don't remember how I got to a town read there. I'll go back and look at how I got there later but right now I'm like null-town on lav because there are better candidates for scum

This hurts my invisible heart XD

Reads are generally more confident and blunt when she's scum, and there's less uncertainty and changing her mind as she writes the post. This is apparent in the rest of her posting too, and not just the readlists.

[Hectic]

Trust me on my Morning Tweet towntell. There will come a day where she breaks out of it and does it as scum, but I don't think it'd be to this extent and this hard (unless she suddenly aware of what it is and is manipulating me with it, but I highly doubt that she would've figured it out).

[catboi]

Lavender's wall is really lackluster. Virtually all of my posts are one-two sentences.

My survey of her suggests that is just how she is and not to expect much more, you're just going to have to work with what you get

catboi-you seemed unwilling to respond to the giant Pooky post for fear of tedium. You did directly answer some questions, and seemed to reluctantly draw up a truce, but I'm bothered that you don't seem to have

thought

about that post even if you chose not to really engage with it publicly. It's extremely enlightening imo, and the case can be made for it both ways depending on how harshly you judge the first few sections.

To be blunt, the amount of hoops you've jumped through to apologize for Hectic while still trying to appear sympathetic to me bother me a lot.

#682 is really stretching it. Every read he's given makes your skin crawl. Him taking a public stand as scum is not unexpected considering the last time he played it safe he got completely grilled-and sparing MT knowing it won't happen is playing it safe in its own way. #614

exists

. #392 is its own adventure and was the first time the word "apologist" came to mind. Liking his reads, then rereading them and going eh these are iffy, and most of them making your skin crawl is just a really wack progression to me.

I can see you flipping scum for these interactions

regardless of what Hectic is

which is so bizarre.

My not responding to pooky was, in part, because I disliked prolonged back-and-forths when I am town, as I feel they rarely lead to anything useful, and in part because I was just not able to read the thread properly at the time, which is why my responses to have been honestly somewhat incoherent - I'd see a thing, respond to it, and remember I hadn't read a couple pages before that and have to go back. I'll try to look at it anyway when I get time, but I feel like it shouldn't be a priority right now.

You are probably right with regard to my read on Hectic. The first time I gave a statement on him in 392, it was a lazy read. The second time in 614, I was guarded because I was suspicious of User Chara and how they made that completely neutral post about his recent scumgame and wanted them to answer before I said anything. I wanted to see if they had any conclusions to draw before I have my own. I guess when I made 682 I had figured he was getting more heat for making a spare vote than he actually did. I hindsight I gave him too much credit there. To go into detail: the reasoning for all his townreads has been incredibly shallow, a trend I noticed in common with his recent micro. Still, he was a lot moe proactive in that game, and I had entertained the possibility of him simply having an off game as town rather than being mafia. I had also felt that him pressuring pooky about not having reads was more likely to be town - in general when someone scumreadsuspects the players they are familiar with (after all, they are soul masons), it tends to be more likely to come from town - as mafia most people will just try to keep their friends on their side and not push them, as town they want to be seen as not giving them a free pass. That was what I thought at the time, now he says, no, I didn't really suspect him, I was just voting him to pressure him, and so that tell is suddenly much less valid than I thought it was. Does that make my thinking clear? At the time, he had said something things I consider suspect, but I saw some points in his favor, and there were other targets I wanted to pursue at the time, people that were more straightforwardly scummy to me.

Last night, I was suspicious of User Chara (really thought I had something novel there!), Lavender, and Pooky, and since then they've all given me reasons to doubt myself. I think now Hectic is lower in my estimation (I say, as he makes an interesting post about lavender), and taylor has also taken a step back with her recent posting. Beyond them the picture for me is kind of unclear. I need to check something on redtea with regard to the lack of vote movement.

[catboi]

Feels a bit late imo catboi but I guess you don't work on my schedule. Should also be a clear next place to look based off of what you've said.

What feels late, exactly? Not sure what this is referring to you since I wasn't directly addressing anything you said in my string of posts.

[Prism]

Crossfire looks pretty similar to this game even though I'm skeptical of the walllread interpretation. Kind of a shame since skimming through other earlier games they had much stronger townplay (Baseball)

IDK how much stock I put into the scum sample given the calendar year but we have no other record so I mean

Slot definitely has the potential to be a trap vote.

Back to sleep now

pedit: pooky not having malign intent, would have liked to see it in reaction to 610, will read bigger post when I wake up again

[Hectic]

Launchy + Ele is a possibility. Launchy keeps shading and calling out Ele but isn't pushing him and even used the rep as an excuse to vote me over the slot. The interaction they had looks kind of fake too, where Ele pushes Launchy over their "turn changing", implying they suddenly want to SPARE over FIGHT, when in reality it's just Launchy asking me who

I

want to SPARE since it's something I wanted to do but hadn't pushed for a candidate yet.
Launchy explains himself in an adequate way but Ele lays out the vote anyway, maybe because it'd be weird if they're both scum and for him to shade him but not vote him, like he feels obliged to do so.
I'm not as confident on that aspect as calling Ele scum though. His tone has been surprisingly friendly this game, and not that I'm saying Ele is friendly as a person, but his town game is usually very abrasive and standoffish. He'll speak his mind and won't care about appearances. In this game, he attempted an early pocket on me (yes, it's a meme, Prism, but it felt like an unnatural one - like he voted to SPARE me before I'd even made a single post). Then, he tries to pocket Pooky and even advocates SPARES on Pooky/Ele/I. I'll quote the posts after this.

Also, there's just the giving out a full readlist with only 2 or 3 null reads, but then saying he's feeling very lost in a later post which kinda contradicts where his headspace was at for that readlist post.

[Hectic]

HURT: Hectic

Deliberately deceptive.

i very much disagree

[huret]catboi[/hurt]
hectic is a pillar of reliability
he never rolls scum

pooky are you always so lovely?

HEAL: pooky

acctually no
HEAL: isis
I want you around longer

HEAL: pooky

HEAL: pooky
can't say no to that

one of them should be pooky
one of them should be me
one of them should be hectic

[Hectic]

Crossfire looks pretty similar to this game even though I'm skeptical of the walllread interpretation. Kind of a shame since skimming through other earlier games they had much stronger townplay (Baseball)

IDK how much stock I put into the scum sample given the calendar year but we have no other record so I mean

Slot definitely has the potential to be a trap vote.

Back to sleep now

pedit: pooky not having malign intent, would have liked to see it in reaction to 610, will read bigger post when I wake up again

Yeah, the problem is that the sample size for scumgames is just 1, but willing to place confidence in it given the stark difference. Goodnight.

[Hectic]

Crossfire looks pretty similar to this game even though I'm skeptical of the walllread interpretation. Kind of a shame since skimming through other earlier games they had much stronger townplay (Baseball)

IDK how much stock I put into the scum sample given the calendar year but we have no other record so I mean

Slot definitely has the potential to be a trap vote.

Back to sleep now

pedit: pooky not having malign intent, would have liked to see it in reaction to 610, will read bigger post when I wake up again

Yeah, the problem is that the sample size for scumgames is just 1, but willing to place confidence in it given the stark difference. Goodnight.

I was Marksman in Crossfire if you want some more useful juicy scummeta, Prism. On the house.

[catboi]

2) catboi-are you still scumreading Pooky? I felt he might be overplaying the spare angle at first, he was 2/3 in my scumpool, but after he got more vehement it became more of a coinflip to me. I haven't read his case on you yet. Without really knowing his meta, it seems possible for the heavy hitting out of left field to be a reliable tool in an experienced player's arsenal. But what do you think?

I will admit, I am feeling little pangs of doubt right now. as I said earlier, when I step outside my own headspace, where my motivations are perfectly clear and lucid to me, I can see why he'd be bothered with the way I've said things. Still, I think a tool in his arsenal is to fight back hard and intimidate people, get them to back down. I more or less expected him to flip the switch and get serious when I accused him. I still have a harrd time some of the arguments he is making are genuine thoughts.

I forgot this post existed while reviewing whoops.

I can kind of see the difficulty here but you seem to have engaged primarily with the easiest thing to me, which is the tinfoil about the wording so ??? idk this truce is lackluster. I also was bothered by you taking credit for getting Pooky to do something even if it's literally true. All of us have tried: it's that you were scummy enough to him to respond to and push on. This really shouldn't be a badge of pride.

I'm not sure anyone else tried particularly hard? Like everyone else would just ask him something or say "well why would he do this as mafia" but in general give him a wide berth, I tried going after him directly.

to be honest, i kind of like Taylor's going from calling Hectic her top scumread to almost completely losing the read when directly asked about it. kind of a mood, kind of feels like she's posting without thinking about it much which is a net +town.

I'm not sure I understand this reasoning at all. Why is not thinking +town rather than showing a lack of legitimate scumhunting process?

[catboi]

Crossfire looks pretty similar to this game even though I'm skeptical of the walllread interpretation. Kind of a shame since skimming through other earlier games they had much stronger townplay (Baseball)

IDK how much stock I put into the scum sample given the calendar year but we have no other record so I mean

Slot definitely has the potential to be a trap vote.

Back to sleep now

pedit: pooky not having malign intent, would have liked to see it in reaction to 610, will read bigger post when I wake up again

Agreed on lavender, her posting style seems to have evolved significantly over that time period so I'm not sure anything conclusive can be drawn from it. I actually note that her reads in the scumgame weren't confident, she had 5 of them as null and the others were "leans", it was a very hedged list. If anything there was a smidge more confidence in her reads list as town, although to be fair the context in gamestate for those lists are very different.

sleep tight BB~ ❣⃛(❛ั◡˜๑)

[Hectic]

What I mean by "confidence" is the way she presents the read. There's no umming or erring in her scumgame. If it's a townlean, it's a townlean. If it's a nullread, it's a nullread. In her towngame, she'll be shifting around while explaining the read.

[catboi]

goddamit now hectic looks town, what am I doing this game

review of redtea shows he moves his vote very little as town, true of his recent game and our older games so I'm not as worried about that.

HURT: Tayl0r Swift

Sometimes the easy vote is the correct one? As I've said her recent posts do not please me at all and the opinions look tossed-off rather than being reinforced by any real thinking, however invisible it is to us.

p-edit:

What I mean by "confidence" is the way she presents the read. There's no umming or erring in her scumgame. If it's a townlean, it's a townlean. If it's a nullread, it's a nullread. In her towngame, she'll be shifting around while explaining the read.

like I said, think this is entirely a stylistic shift rather than an alignment indicative one, as her posting since 2019 has become more, well...bubbly.

[Hectic]

the scum motivation is arguing for spares, and then when it doesn't gain traction, u can pretend u were just forgetful and of course u're for the good pro-town option. not sure whether that's what u'd do or not though. having a hard time reading ur slot this game

I countered your point here:

worse than FIGHT>SPARE>FIGHT>FIGHT
you think scum!me could think there's any chance that would instantly not be shot down?

As far as I can see, this is the only thing you've stated you dislike from me since calling me null here:

also i wanted hectic to elaborate more than he did. i still feel like he shoudl feel townier than he does, so i'm kind of null on the slot. (maybe it's just the posting gimmick? i admit the pictures do get me to at least read what he says)

what's the basis for your scumread?

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

The number of times I have listened to Snowy after refreshing the thread...

Hectic locktown for gracing this music upon my ears.

[Hectic]

Oh, Nahdia's transported us to Waterfall(?) I think. My bad for ruining everyone's immersion. This should be better:



Very innovative to use pieces of paper spelling death as a death zone btw. Low budget and does the job.

[catboi]

HURT: hectic sorry

I still want elements but I'm willing to give that slot a ment to change my mind now that there's been a sub. Hectic is my next best bet. Maybe I need to work on some wcumreads, I mostly have townreads

(,Ծ_Ծ,) Actually, thinking on it, the "sorry" here raises a flag for me.

[Prism]

Hey cat, I really appreciate you tackling all of my questions and giving really thorough answers. Most of them make sense to me, even though the Hectic progression/attitude around Pooky bother me a bit (I was actually biased in the credit thing; me feeling the same way about the gimmick+pushing him for content meant I didn't really think about the fact I never pushed him inthread. Something about this still seems off to me, though.)

You seem to have trended towards me being town. Is there anything you specifically want me to look at/talk to you about?

This game presents a unique challenge for us in a lot of ways. I suspect all of these 4 things are true: 1) Despite nearly identical backgrounds, we think of mafia in very different ways 2) We both expect slightly too much from the other as town 3) Deep down we both think we're the better player 4) We literally have no meta despite 1-3, unless you've already specced some of my games

[Prism]

It's also curious to me that your mind doesn't immediately turn towards reviewing the stronger scum players when the previous top candidates get nixed in your eyes (Lavender/Hectic)

[Chara]

Chara posting actual content makes me like them and being behind at least explains the active lurking. I am back to the drawing board, yet again.

is it enough just to post content? i can do this much as scum, too.

[CantHateAPuppy]

lots of posts i want to touch but im just not in the mood today. feeling down. maybe tomorrow.

but also i willl say is i feel bad about hectic b/c he invited me to play with him this game, so it feels bad to scumread him. he just doesn't feel like the last game i played at all

[Chara]

catboi: i appreciate the redtea review re: not moving his vote a lot. also, big agree on Hectic. i like his current direction and his justification for the Lavender TR.

Prism, i didn't see you talk about your redtea townread, i'm pretty interested in that.