Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[CantHateAPuppy]

is there an unhurt tag?

[unhurt]hectic[/unhurt]

guess not

HURT: no one

im around now, skimmed the last few pages but nothing really jumps out at me.feeling a little lost now? still feel like my townreads are ok, anybody has anything they want me to say / answer i'm around now

｢(ﾟﾍﾟ) Why the unvote?

kind of amusing that everybody else is noticing the same things i said about elements except now also scumreading me for them (?). lmao. beeboy doesn't ping me the same way but he also hasn'd said anything yet so i kinda want to talk to him. also maybe chara and catboi. and didn't redtea have something he wanted to ask me or was that oo long ago

Starting to feel in a funny way that the elements slot has been controversial enough that flipping there wouldn't be too bad regardless of the result because we could read offhow people approached it. Also beeboy's entry posts weren't great.

ur second paragraph kinda helps me answer ur first

feeling like it doesn't matter who we flip, because if we flip town we get the chara anyways. so we should flip a slot that is hard for us to resolve. feeling like that isn't hectic rn, also my reason for voting there wasn't really there, im not really sure who i scumread except for elements (was scumread? do scumread? not sure.)

any thoughts about who u'd like to see flip catboi? lavendar is an ok answer but not very revealing imo, maybe taylor? i don't know about redtea but that slot hasn't given me much to work with yet. not sure what i think about prism either, if only because prism hasn't been around at the same time as me iirc so i don't feel strongly either way

[catboi]

Also beeboy's entry posts weren't great.

Once again finding myself dropping a thought fragment without explaining, so let me elaborate: he tossed off some comments on very recent pages with reads on prism/mt/hectic that are fairly weak, but asked about setup strategy in 836 when that was a discussion that quickly came to dominate the game in the first handful of pages. So he's looking around at recent pages trying to find something to comment on but hasn't read the start of the game, which is at a minimum completely terrible process, but likely just someone who is looking to make comment on

something

to appear contributive.

feeling like it doesn't matter who we flip, because if we flip town we get the chara anyways. so we should flip a slot that is hard for us to resolve. feeling like that isn't hectic rn, also my reason for voting there wasn't really there, im not really sure who i scumread except for elements (was scumread? do scumread? not sure.)

any thoughts about who u'd like to see flip catboi? lavendar is an ok answer but not very revealing imo, maybe taylor? i don't know about redtea but that slot hasn't given me much to work with yet. not sure what i think about prism either, if only because prism hasn't been around at the same time as me iirc so i don't feel strongly either way

Lol, I was just coming around to the exact thought that it's best to flip a hard to resolve slot. Maybe you are town.

I'm still okay with voting taylor but need to review her recent reads again, beeboy trending down for reasons stated above. Meh on lavender. redtea I still think is town although I wish he'd be more proactive. I think by nature he's more of a follower than a leader but I wish he'd pick someone to follow here.

[catboi]

Morning Tweet actually kind of meh on a reread of last 30 or so posts. Don't know that I townread there anymore.

Trying to read Chara's catchup again to find something to comment on and...I'm not sure there is something I really want to talk about. Actually, one thing

@Chara:

in 728 you say you found tweet's posting towny, but why did you like 416? Just because she said she'd spare you?

[Chara]

i liked the posts immediately before and after that. i think i meant "around" when i said "through", but those are the reason for the townread. i like how Tweet quantified her townreads as a list of spares, before saying she'd probably find herself concerned about scum-me.
the love might have been how she updated me to a higher tier as a correction after noticing it was off. little things like that feel real. but that's a hindsight from me right now, i don't remember if that was the original reason, it could've just been a reaction to seeing myself on the spare list.

[Chara]

Prism, good luck with your upcoming interview!

it's funny that you considered that scumgame one that was similar to your tone/approach this game, because the posts you pointed out looked immediately different to me.

i don't know if i TR you. i don't think i

have

a read on you, but i don't see the value in approaching you as anything but an ally right now. i'd just like to work with you.

[catboi]

Okay. That was kind of a lame qusetion but I really like your answer. ('')

[Chara]

HURT: beeboy
we need you here!

[Chara]

Okay. That was kind of a lame qusetion but I really like your answer. ('')

...that makes me want to ask my own lame question. why do you like my answer?

[Chara]

i like kitty so much and i want to TR them but don't. the Prism Problem. i'll call it that.

[Chara]

feeling like it doesn't matter who we flip, because if we flip town we get the chara anyways. so we should flip a slot that is hard for us to resolve. feeling like that isn't hectic rn, also my reason for voting there wasn't really there, im not really sure who i scumread except for elements (was scumread? do scumread? not sure.)

it matters.
if we flip Chara, we get the full game public cop.
if we flip another scum, we get... scum, and we get another more informed opportunity to flip Chara for the win.
Chara flipping on a town miselim is really a consolation prize. it's still better to flip scum by miles and miles.

but agree Hectic feels solvable.

[catboi]

Okay. That was kind of a lame qusetion but I really like your answer. ('')

...that makes me want to ask my own lame question. why do you like my answer?

It was a very...thorough explanation? It showed a depth of thought beyond what I was expecting for a fairly simple query. By all means, ask me a lame question! <(*ΦωΦ*)>

[Chara]

that was it. hahaha.

[catboi]

Lol, I feel silly... (=ｘェｘ=)

Stick a bunch of fight votes on me if I don't play tomorrow before what a standard eastern time supper would be.

HURT: beeboy

[CantHateAPuppy]

guess i can get behind this

HURT: beeboy

@chara: point taken! but im not gonna sit here agonizing about it, gonna get some nice flips no matter what do so im gonna be positive about it

[Morning Tweet]

spares are more serious than hurts imo because 4 town-spare votes on a chara is auto-lose

While this is true that Spares should theoretically be deadly serious due to that, i wouldn't really have thought of that while casting a spare

hectic - probably town. stop being a goof though, and while i agree that deciding lavender is town rather than scum is passing on an opportunity for opportunism, it feels like a weak read
elements - beeboy hasnt really done anything to make me townread that slot (yet)
chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting
prism - prolly just town
pooky - definitely town
catboi - i still have misgivings
morning - those ears could never be scum
lavender - needs more content, in PoE
redtea - i dont remember any posts from this slot. i guess at some point i should read the iso but its not a good sign if they arent doing anything worth remembering. could just be the awolness that made me forget
tanner - prolly just town
puppy - hasnt really done much townie recently, but was a townread earlier

so that makes my PoE chara, lavender, redtea, puppy. out of those i want to HURT: chara

I don't hate this. Although i seriously dont get the catboi thing lol

I see the wagon of the day is beeboy maybe ill think abt that

[Morning Tweet]

2) Catboi

I find it strange that he would pursue the path of attacking me and claim that he expected me to bury him in a giant wall and then back off the way he did.

If this is what you expect me to do when you attack then why would you even attack in the first place if you were just going to walk away? The behavior is strange and I'm not sure if it is AI.

I am weak. But really, it was a combination of not quite being able to keep pace with the game for a few days and the feeling of "is this really the direction I want to go in?" and I kind of lost conviction somewhere along the way.

i like this explanation

feeling like it doesn't matter who we flip, because if we flip town we get the chara anyways. so we should flip a slot that is hard for us to resolve. feeling like that isn't hectic rn, also my reason for voting there wasn't really there, im not really sure who i scumread except for elements (was scumread? do scumread? not sure.)

Yeah it's making putting effort in kind of hard, it feels like there's no pressure when scum dies anyway if we choose wrong

I think flipping a slot that is hard to resolve/solve is a fair enough way of going about it.

I'm probably okay going Elements too though. Although maybe should try to read beeboy first

[Morning Tweet]

I think I'm just going to try and use the Not Chara flip to get me back into the swing of solving maybe, then I'll have something to focus on

Going off of pure vibes alone I'd go something like:

Spoiler: vibes

catboi
Prism
Tanner

Pooky
Hectic
Chara

Puppy
Taylor

redtea
Lavender
Elements-beeboy

If this game's gonna be easy then there's like 2/3 scum in that bottom 4-5ish and we are going to win this no problem I think

However, if it's not, then maybe Not Chara's flip will either A.) take out the deepwolf because they are Not Chara lol or B.) help me locate the deepwolf

So I'm probably good sniping elements-beeboy and seeing what happens

HURT: Beeboy X-2 i *think*

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Yeah it's making putting effort in kind of hard, it feels like there's no pressure when scum dies anyway if we choose wrong

The difference between flipping Chara and having it venge a townie and flipping and townie and having chara commit suicide is the public investigation rule:

Zero : The mafia must choose two players to be publicly investigated. If Chara was fought, the mafia must choose everyone. Skip night 4.

What it essentially means if I am reading it right, is that if we flip Chara on D1, we only need to hit one of the other 2 scum to win, the last scum will get definitely endgamed in the final part of the game when the investigations trigger.

If we hit a townie on D1 however - we would need to find and lynch both goons.

I think somebody else explained that earlier in the thread - probly Prism or Chara I dont remember which off top of my head.

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah I do think i remembered that hitting Not Chara specifically will technically make the game easier for us -- but I don't know if we can realistically pick out Chara specifically using just a D1. Or at least, i dont think i could anyway

I guess trying hard to find scum gives a 1/3rd chance of that happening by default though. MM yup, i'm definitely just lazy! Sorry abt that

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it makes the game a lot easier for us - hitting 1 out of 2 scum is much easier than hitting 2 out of 2 scum. It's a worthwhile thing to put effort into.

Also it would be nice if instead of all just piling on Beeboy for being afk we actually took the time to put out our readlists - because if we're wrong on Elements - it would be very helpful to see Not-Chara's Readlist to try to figure out what it's 2 allies are.

[Morning Tweet]

am i part of the problem? ╥﹏╥

That's true though about getting our reads out before the Not Chara death and looking into that stuff is kind of what i want to do after the Not Chara flip

I will probably do a nice D1 master reads list with some actual reasoning behind it in a little bit. I believe there are a couple days left, yes?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's like a collective action problem.

The chara wants to give us as little info as possible - so pushing everyone to give detailed reads will force the chara into giving detailed reads unless it wants to stand out by not giving detailed reads in which case it would be very easy to nail it on D1.

[beeboy]

Ok in my defense, I actually just went to the ER today and was stuck for around 7 hours.
Which is something I 100% wouldn't lie about.

Although keep the votes on me until the morning please today was too long for me to care as

[Tayl0r Swift]

Prism's read list had a set of takes that I think come from town.
His read on MT although consistent of him saying a bunch of MT traits and calling them scum indicative.
I also really liked that read in particular.

To some degree I want to town read MT for Hectic's "Top secret meta read", since good players tend to not say that without a real reason to do so.
But I also think I could probably read her on my own since I am fairly experienced playing with her, and she did perceive herself to be scum in one game even if she was town and could have thought it was multiball.

I originally wanted to question Hectic because I never heard of this tell before!!! But the 3 games that the 3 of us touched were 2 games modded by hectic and 1 modded by MT.
For the amount I've played with both Hectic and MT I am genuinely suprised this is the first time the 3 of us have played together. I don't want to count the dance game since it was an anon game.

i read beeboy's iso to decide whether it was a worthwhile wagon, but this is the only post with AI content (except the post advocating spares, which is scummy and was done twice in two different ways: spare at least one, and the spare route is good), and the AI content here is meh. dunno if its just because of catchup or what. beeboy needs more content but im not ready to lunch there yet.

[catboi]

Reads right now are something like

town: tanner, prism, chara, redtea
null: puppy, pooky, hectic, lavender, tweet
scum: beeboy, taylor

which is pretty meh. I think from conversing wuithem chara feels town, both the little thing we had earlie and the way they had that read of taylor, I disagree with them, explain my reasoning, and they went back and re-evaluated. Everyone in the null list I could take a guess on one way or the other if I really had to but don't feel strongly there on any.