Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[callforjudgement]

@

geraintm

(and everyone else who hasn't clarified yet, but geraintm is posting recently): Could you confirm whether or not you received a Friendly Neighbour message about Italiano last Night?

Italiano's Night action is something that it's fairly important to clarify quickly; it's incorrect in theory to vote him out toDay either way, but knowing whether or not Italiano is a confirmed town voice would be helpful in scumhunting other players, because it would help us know what we should and shouldn't be paranoid about. Normally Friendly Neighbour claims are always town (because it's hard to fake them opposite a town that's checking out the claim), but I

have

seen one successfully faked in the past, and Italiano's recent play (e.g. stalling multiple times when I can't see any pro-town reason not to just say who he targeted) looks a lot more like a player who's hoping to get away with a fakeclaim than someone who's claiming their actual role.

(Even if Italiano is a Friendly Neighbour, the fact that nobody has claimed to receive the message yet makes me suspect that it didn't get through, because there's no reason not to claim it and yet nobody has. You're one of the few players who hasn't yet at least implied not having received the message.)

[geraintm]

Sorry, I assumed peoplw would know i haven't had anything from them, I would have been very open before if I had as I see no point in lying.

[callforjudgement]

Also, on the subject of my recent vote movement: I don't think RCEnigma is scum. I think that the majority of his posts feel a little scummier than normal, and there are some massively anti-town things that shouldn't have been done as either alignment (e.g. the fakeclaims), but that seems like it may well just be a playstyle thing; meanwhile, RCEnigma puts up the occasional very townish post like #525 (I also think #1097 is rather townish). The pressure on him was helpful because it was easier to get a read from pressured-RC than lurky-RC, but I had a townread from it, so I moved to Walter (based on objective information like the Day 1 voting, it's highly likely that either Walter or I are scum and many players have deduced that; so it's strange that there aren't more votes on Walter and I was wondering who would be interested in following me there, but apparently nobody has; maybe it's just a consequence of the general lack of activity we've had recently).

[Tayl0r Swift]

if theres only one neighborhood i find it to be exceptionally unlikely that its town-scum. if you're saying theres scum in you and walter, then it almost has to be you cfj.

[callforjudgement]

I don't think town/scum is all

that

unlikely. It also isn't always the case that players who look scum based on voting patterns actually are, especially as scum has some degree of control over what flips we get.

(If the Friendly Neighbour is a fakeclaim, then scum/scum is also a possibility – in this situation, the neighbourhood might not even exist at all. But there isn't much point in worrying about that unless Italiano continues to stall on confirming himself.)

[Raya36]

I think this is a good time for Italiano to claim who he sent the message to

[Nosferatu]

@Nos
What are you torn about here?

cfj and raya

[Nosferatu]

Insert shawshankobtuse.jpg

you're the type to vote town in xylo

Votecount 2.5

Looker(3)

~ Nosferatu(13), Gamma Emerald(24), callforjudgement(31)

callforjudgement(3)

~ Frogsterking(28), ItalianoVD(28), WaltertheDunce10(11)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Raya36(28), geraintm(13)

Raya36(2)

~ RCEnigma(20), Tayl0r Swift(41)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Looker(13)

kinda torn here

VOTE: raya

I dont get why there isn't a wagon on you. If people thought not mafia wasnt helpful for town day 1, what are you?

i think not mafia was more helpful than u are

what have you done ? if you hadn't queued up for this game what wouldve changed lol

[ItalianoVD]

@

geraintm

(and everyone else who hasn't clarified yet, but geraintm is posting recently): Could you confirm whether or not you received a Friendly Neighbour message about Italiano last Night?

Italiano's Night action is something that it's fairly important to clarify quickly; it's incorrect in theory to vote him out toDay either way, but knowing whether or not Italiano is a confirmed town voice would be helpful in scumhunting other players, because it would help us know what we should and shouldn't be paranoid about. Normally Friendly Neighbour claims are always town (because it's hard to fake them opposite a town that's checking out the claim), but I

have

seen one successfully faked in the past, and Italiano's recent play (e.g. stalling multiple times when I can't see any pro-town reason not to just say who he targeted) looks a lot more like a player who's hoping to get away with a fakeclaim than someone who's claiming their actual role.

(Even if Italiano is a Friendly Neighbour, the fact that nobody has claimed to receive the message yet makes me suspect that it didn't get through, because there's no reason not to claim it and yet nobody has. You're one of the few players who hasn't yet at least implied not having received the message.)

Or, you know, you can just scumhunt without that information. I looked at the deadline and we have a little over 8 days. If you don’t get that information until the deadline day, what are you not gonna scumhunt? Since you like assuming stuff about me, assume I am what I say I am and go from there.

[WaltertheDunce10]

@Nos
What are you torn about here?

cfj and raya

I have the same thought also.

[callforjudgement]

Or, you know, you can just scumhunt without that information. I looked at the deadline and we have a little over 8 days. If you don’t get that information until the deadline day, what are you not gonna scumhunt? Since you like assuming stuff about me, assume I am what I say I am and go from there.

Every flip makes scumhunting so much easier. It's certainly possible even without the information, but every read I have needs to deal with two possiblities, you as town and you as scum. If I (and everyone else) spend the day assuming that you're town, and then it turns out towards the end that you aren't confirmed town after all, we're all going to have to scramble to re-evaluate and will probably end up making a suboptimal decision. You shouldn't want the possibility of that happening if you're town, whereas it seems like something that would work out very well for you if you're scum.

After all, if you

are

town, why are you so confident that your message was successfully received? If I were a Friendly Neighbour, and despite all the odds and prompting, nobody had confirmed me by this point in the Day, I'd start being really paranoid that something had gone wrong with the night action somehow and attempt to determine what that was and why. You're acting like it's no big deal if you end up not being confirmed today.

[ItalianoVD]

I think this is a good time for Italiano to claim who he sent the message to

Why?

if theres only one neighborhood i find it to be exceptionally unlikely that its town-scum. if you're saying theres scum in you and walter,

then it almost has to be you cfj.

Yup.

[Tayl0r Swift]

italiano because of what cfj said in 1185. please claim your target

[RCEnigma]

if theres only one neighborhood i find it to be exceptionally unlikely that its town-scum. if you're saying theres scum in you and walter, then it almost has to be you cfj.

Err what makes it unlikely to be town-scum?

[ItalianoVD]

Every flip makes scumhunting so much easier.

Yeah, especially when we flip scum, and that’s what happened, so maybe get to work huh? That flip produced soo much content.

It's certainly possible even without the information, but every read I have needs to deal with two possiblities, you as town and you as scum. If I (and everyone else) spend the day assuming that you're town, and then it turns out towards the end that you aren't confirmed town after all, we're all going to have to scramble to re-evaluate and will probably end up making a suboptimal decision. You shouldn't want the possibility of that happening if you're town, whereas it seems like something that would work out very well for you if you're scum.

You know, there are other people in this game and I feel like you are distracting yourself from looking at anyone else because you are so determined to know who I targeted. As I said assume I’m town and just go from there.

After all, if you

are

town, why are you so confident that your message was successfully received? If I were a Friendly Neighbour, and despite all the odds and prompting, nobody had confirmed me by this point in the Day, I'd start being really paranoid that something had gone wrong with the night action somehow and attempt to determine what that was and why.

You're acting like it's no big deal if you end up not being confirmed today.

I’m 99.9% sure my message was received. (bolded): That’s kinda it. I just believe it’s not the

most

pressing issue facing us at the moment. With a week left I want to get into more interactions and ask more questions to everyone. You seem more interested in clearing one slot.

[Looker]

Spoiler:

who do you think is scum now raya? and why

Walter for the non-committal start and weak pushes such as this pushing the fake claim early game to be PR fishing.
RCE for the fakeclaim thing that drew out town PRs and had 0 benefit for town. He also seemed overdefensive on that topic.

I really need to read and get back into the game because I'm very detached right now

Are you saying that Walter's scum because he didn't push hard enough the thing that you're pushing?

Also I 100% agree that whoever got the FN message should either claim or be revealed by Italiano today and preferably not too late in the day. There is absolutely no reason for town to hold this info back.

I also am concerned about the Shelly wagon, I just haven't had the time to think too much into it.

What good does it do to hold it back? Claiming to receive the message doesn't make you a target. It doesn't make Italiano any more of a target. It doesn't out any extra info to scum outside of confirming Italiano. Claiming does take away any suspicion on Italiano and helps town in that way.

I think Italiano's lying. Two fakeclaims and a half-claim.

if theres only one neighborhood i find it to be exceptionally unlikely that its town-scum. if you're saying theres scum in you and walter, then it almost has to be you cfj.

Err what makes it unlikely to be town-scum?

Should we split the wagons between you and Raya? You said you weren't overly* concerned with being elim'd.

---

• I feel there's too much WIFOM for me to take any of this seriously.
  
• In what ways could someone 'check Italiano or Walter' out for a fakeclaim to fall apart?
  
• What does it mean to be "away from the action"? I'm confused as to what I'm supposed to be obsessing over.

[WaltertheDunce10]

If it is a fakeclaim then why tell me in neighbor chat where he sent it too.
That would out his scumbuddy.

[callforjudgement]

I’m 99.9% sure my message was received. (bolded): That’s kinda it. I just believe it’s not the

most

pressing issue facing us at the moment. With a week left I want to get into more interactions and ask more questions to everyone. You seem more interested in clearing one slot.

It doesn't really matter how pressing or non-pressing an issue is when a) some people are bothered about it and b) it's possible to clear it up with very little effort. One post from you, one post from the recipient, and that's it, everything's done and we can move on (as there'll only be one remaining possible scumteam containing you). It's taken you much more time to say "actually I want to get into a lot of interactions and ask people questions" than it would be to simply say "I targeted

player

last night", and I can't see any possible pro-town reason to delay doing this once you've got all the information you can from seeing whether the target claims it themself or not.

[Raya36]

I think this is a good time for Italiano to claim who he sent the message to

Why?

if theres only one neighborhood i find it to be exceptionally unlikely that its town-scum. if you're saying theres scum in you and walter,

then it almost has to be you cfj.

Yup.

Because of exactly what cfj said in 1185. All this is doing is hurting town. There is no reason for you not to claim who the message was sent to. If you have a reason I'd like to hear it.

[Raya36]

Spoiler:

who do you think is scum now raya? and why

Walter for the non-committal start and weak pushes such as this pushing the fake claim early game to be PR fishing.
RCE for the fakeclaim thing that drew out town PRs and had 0 benefit for town. He also seemed overdefensive on that topic.

I really need to read and get back into the game because I'm very detached right now

Are you saying that Walter's scum because he didn't push hard enough the thing that you're pushing?

Um no? I never said that at all.

Also I 100% agree that whoever got the FN message should either claim or be revealed by Italiano today and preferably not too late in the day. There is absolutely no reason for town to hold this info back.

I also am concerned about the Shelly wagon, I just haven't had the time to think too much into it.

What good does it do to hold it back? Claiming to receive the message doesn't make you a target. It doesn't make Italiano any more of a target. It doesn't out any extra info to scum outside of confirming Italiano. Claiming does take away any suspicion on Italiano and helps town in that way.

I think Italiano's lying. Two fakeclaims and a half-claim.

I'm starting to think it's all a lie too. Although most likely a lie coming from town.

[Raya36]

If it is a fakeclaim then why tell me in neighbor chat where he sent it too.
That would out his scumbuddy.

If you know you should be telling us. Italiano is hurting town and you holding back info is hurting town too.

[RCEnigma]

Should we split the wagons between you and Raya? You said you weren't overly* concerned with being elim'd

Do what you do. Don't get caught being the guy asking to be on the wagon though. It's going to look worse when I flip.

[RCEnigma]

Uhh, Italiano is fine shutting up until his target outs.

[Raya36]

Uhh, Italiano is fine shutting up until his target outs.

Why?

[RCEnigma]

It isn't a big deal and if his target doesn't out he can just out it before deadline or preferably in twilight.