FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt (Game Over!)

[Servant Avenger]

I don't mind complaints.

But you did sign up to find scum and look good while doing it.

[Servant Foreigner]

I'd just like to apologize to Berserker I think I crossed a line this game regardless of how I feel about your alignment in game.

My reads are the following.
Caster/Beast/AE/Avenger For Town.
Shielder -> Berserker (dependant on Casters flip, a Shielder town flip is a good look but not amazing, Casters scum flip borderline clears Berserker)

[Servant Saber]

I wish people didn't post when I was asleep.

Part of me is against the Caster wagon but I don't have a strong reason why. Maybe I am just tunneled on Beast. A caster scumflip would lead to so many associations though, so I'll recheck my work.

Foreigner, who is scum to you? Are you at scum via PoE?

I'd like to hear from Rider and Ruler on Caster. I am sorry if you already commented. I am having trouble keeping similar names apart.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'd like to see something from Lancer today.

[Servant Assassin]

I think his viewpoint could be a simple way of setting himself back to gain town cred early. Give up a shot at the crown but get a seat up at the table. Later, he wasn't uninterested in being elected if he could rack up the votes, if I recall.
On the other hand, there's consistency of view point where it's harder to see him playing from that angle.

I don't really know what this is in response to specifically, but I suppose I should mention that I'm not seeing any sort of narrative like that in Shielder's posts but I'm also not really actively looking for it either.

My read comes from an amalgamation of individual (what I'm calling) town indicators. Posts that I think are tonally town, paragraphs that I think are unlikely to come from someone whose goal is deception, etc.

I'm mostly interested in the micro stuff over the macro stuff.

(This is also why I don't really care for any of the "Berserker is pushing incorrect reads and this helps scum" ideas floating around currently.)

I understand where you are coming from. I think part of where we diverge is that tone can be faked, at very little risk, and in an anonymous game it would seem to be a grave error to attribute townieness to a person from the tone of their posts without being aware of the person behind the account. To me, at least. My is more attempting to look at and understand people's process, and the two significant scumreads they have presented so far (shielder and ruler) both feel rather underwhelming to me.

[Servant Assassin]

Also, to be clear: I still find Shielder scummy, for more reasons than the roleclaim. I do not think Shielder-Swift held up to my interrogation at all, her answers were evasive and unsatisfying, and had I not had an urgent desire to burn Archer first this phase, I probably would have gone through with a vote on them. Nothing has really sold me on them being town. I don't want people mis-clearing them here.

I'd like to see something from Lancer today.

I agree that would be nice.

[Servant Lancer]

200 posts, I can handle this. You will see something from me today. Trying to take things by chunks. I like Moon Cancer's 1942 on this page, assuming it is about Shielder and I'm not missing a bunch of context.

[Servant Assassin]

Hello Lancer. Last I saw, you had expressed some level of suspicion toward Moon Cancer. Does that still hold true?

[Servant Avenger]

200 posts, I can handle this. You will see something from me today. Trying to take things by chunks. I like Moon Cancer's 1942 on this page, assuming it is about Shielder and I'm not missing a bunch of context.

You are missing a bunch of context.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

Assassin, I don't think what other people might refer to as tone is the same as what I'm referring to. Or if it is, I think I'm OKish at distinguishing the difference between faked and genuine in this regard even in an anonymous game. Or at least I used to be. I lack confidence at the moment due to shaking off rust, but I would still be quite surprised if my read on Caster is incorrect.

And I also don't currently believe Shielder is scum but I want to sit down and think about this one properly when I have some time.

As far as who actually _is_ scum, still thinking about this. I might have been wrong about my initial assessment of Ruler, I still need to go over Lancer and Saber. I'm way further behind in this game than I wanted to be.

[Servant Assassin]

Assassin, I don't think what other people might refer to as tone is the same as what I'm referring to. Or if it is, I think I'm OKish at distinguishing the difference between faked and genuine in this regard even in an anonymous game. Or at least I used to be. I lack confidence at the moment due to shaking off rust, but I would still be quite surprised if my read on Caster is incorrect.

And I also don't currently believe Shielder is scum but I want to sit down and think about this one properly when I have some time.

As far as who actually _is_ scum, still thinking about this. I might have been wrong about my initial assessment of Ruler, I still need to go over Lancer and Saber. I'm way further behind in this game than I wanted to be.

I should probably add, as my last post risked coming off as callous to Caster, that I do not necessarily think their emotion displayed at points of this game is not genuine. I am just not sure it reflects on their alignment in a meaningful way. Whatever your boxes are, they aren't the same as mine. I have decent townreads on a significant number of people in this game.

[Servant Caster]

I dont fit into ur boxes mate.

[Servant Assassin]

me:ok

[Servant Rider]

So, I did some digging around into Shielder's claim. I'd like to do a nice side by side comparison, but I lack the desire to make infographics so text will have to do. This is the first of several posts about the topics at hand and has been broken up so as not to wall anyone to death.

Exalted Impervious Wall of Snowflakes: commute 1 other player together that night, me and them are immune to all but what they target me with can still go through (Shielder claim)
Exalted Impervious Wall of Snowflakes: Increases party's defense for 3 turns. Reduces party's damage taken by 2000 for 1 attack. (FGO Wiki, found here.)

Obscurant Wall of Chalk One-shot: target 1 player they get a noble phantasm charge and are jailkept for 1 night (Shielder claim)
Obscurant Wall of Chalk: Grants one ally's Invincibility for 1 turn. Charges their NP gauge. (FGO Wiki, found here.)

Shield of Rousing Resolution: if 7 or more townies are alive, I gain 2 noble phantasm charges instead of 1 at start of day phase. I think this is a passive ability (Shielder claim)
Shield of Rousing Resolution: 500% Chance to draw attention of all enemies to self for 1 turn. Increases own NP generation rate for 1 turn. (FGO Wiki, found here.)

Lord Camelot - Fortress of the Distant Utopia (****) when using this I dont lose charges. can talk during the night phase when used (Shielder claim)
Lord Camelot - Fortress of the Distant Utopia: Reduces party's damage taken for 3 turns. Increases party's attack by 30% except herself for 3 turns. Increases party's defense for 3 turns. (FGO Wiki, found here.)

[Servant Rider]

The problems I have:

1. The flavor/game text does not line up well with the claimed abilities. Obscurant wall of chalk is fine, but the first ability, third ability, and noble phantasm do not. My roles and abilities match either the in game text or the name of the ability, and in my opinion the abilities claimed above do not. Shield of Rousing Resolution and Lord Camelot in particular strike me as odd. While SoRR has an NP gain component in it, its primary task is to redirect actions to the shielder (i.e. a taunt mechanic). It's also not a passive ability. Lord Camelot also is a very strange mechanic and has little to do with either the name or the in-game effect.

2. The claim of being a commuter with a friend. According to Shielder, they can commute both themselves and another player but that any actions targeting Shielder go through. This makes no sense. If that's the case, they're not commuting themselves, but force commuting someone else. If there's some kind of caveat (e.g. Shielder themselves cannot be killed but can be targeted by investigatives/protects/whatever) it's unclear what that is. It is clear, however, that some caveat exists, or Shielder would have simply said "I commute other people".

I'd like all of you to examine your abilities vs. the flavor of your chosen servant on the FGO wiki to see if Shielder's claim is im/plausible.

[Servant Rider]

Now, onto Caster. Assassin's right. There really isn't much going on there, and for someone in the top 5 posters in game there's shockingly little actual content. I'm sort of surprised this didn't make it onto Saber 1.0's Signal to Noise list, but they're gone and we'll never know. I digress. There's been a lot of talk and not a whole lot of action or visible thought process behind any of it. The recent demotivation inspired by Assassin is a pretty bad mark against Caster as well.

Why did I think Caster was town? Simple, I like them. I like the snark, the hedgewizardness, even the complaining to a degree. I felt a few times in d0 that Caster and I had similar mindsets (as an example, that response to Archer I mentioned wayyyyyy back in the early 200s.) I'm entertained when I read their posts. Are any of these particularly compelling reasons to townread the slot? No. But it's a personal quirk of mine that if I like someone I tend to think they're town.

That said. Caster. If you're town, you can pull yourself out of this. You've only got 3 votes (by my informal count) and I'm willing to help you climb out of this hole you've dug. Hell, it doesn't even have to be me. Pick someone you're comfortable with and just talk to them. I'm not gonna lie, it'll take some work; it's a big hole. But don't give up just because you got voted by an IC. That's it. I'll be here if you need me.

[Servant Rider]

So, in conclusion. In the ideal world, I'd prefer a Lancer elim today. But Rider, you say, you didn't even TALK about Lancer! I know. That's because even with all that's gone on with Caster and Shielder, the only thing we have from Lancer is another "I'll do stuff soon

TM

guys, promise~" Not much to talk about.

In a world where my only options for today are Shielder and Caster, I pick Shielder. I don't like their claim, I think Shielder 2.0 was patently insane, and Shielder 3.0 has done a whole load of nothing other than claim. The slot is cursed, burn it. Also, if we're going to collectively grant a stay of execution for one of the two, I think it should be Caster. I'd rather give Caster one final shot at redeeming himself. Either way, I'm not voting right now, there's still plenty of time on the clock and it looks like we (yet again) need a new Ruler.

[Servant Lancer]

@Rider - I was really into Caster's attitude, he just Felt really at ease and it was around post 270 where I got hit with the towny energy and the frustration that seemed really well timed.
I reconsidered with the Shielder push, and that's what made me think I wasn't really TRing Caster for anything besides attitude.
Looking back on Caster now while I read there's a lot of posts that sound good but they're missing the followup. Like, 465 made me think "okay, he's putting some thought into this" but then he doesn't actually go back to look even though I asked.
Maybe there's some fault for me here for pulling the disappearing act, but then there's the Shielder read, where Caster begins with being sure Shielder is scum and is again uninterested with engaging the slot. I dont have post numbers but the big post about how Berserker's reads can't be trusted and then clamming up when I tried to ask about it is still ???
But it looks like Caster does have Berserker as 100% town, which I do agree with.

I already talked about this but Idk if it was discussed, but the Ruler vote after actually giving a reason for Shielder to be scum is another example of the lack of followthrough.
When I called that out, I see Caster responded with a joke to vote me instead ot Ruler, which doesn't actually address why he chose not to vote Shielder. I don't know if that's actually scummy in a vacuum. I need more context for the rest, because Caster's tone seems to change with what I assume is getting suspicion from Assassin + whoever else.
But the original read change was just realizing the tone doesn't actually count for much + not liking the Shielder push, the rest is from just now.

[Servant Caster]

the big post about how Berserker's reads can't be trusted and then clamming up when I tried to ask about it is still ???
But it looks like Caster does have Berserker as 100% town, which I do agree with.

No, it isnt a mystery, I clarified what was happening there within the last few pages.

I do not have them as 100% town at all.

[Servant Caster]

the Ruler vote after actually giving a reason for Shielder to be scum is another example of the lack of followthrough.

I knew someone would take issue with this when I did it, but like. Surely you can't think I'm such terribly sloppy scum I forgot that I'm scumreading shielder, right? So... who cares? I just wanted to try a different direction for a moment. I still want to pursue ruler and was thinking about attempting to explain my thoughts about them as a Return To The Thread.

[Servant Caster]

Also it's not like I didnt gove a reason at the time. Assassin said they didnt want to do shielder today so I looked elsewhere. Yes I lack follow through. It's a theme, I suggest you get used to it (or continue to eliminate me I guess)

[Servant Lancer]

Okay, I'll see when I get there.
Also, I can grant Master if I'm Master once D1 and once D2. I think that's the standard one.

Pedit You knew someone was going to take issue with it, but when I say as much you just say "lol what if I vote you instead"?

[Servant Caster]

Yes. I knew someone would take issue with it because it's a very easy thing to take issue with, but doing so seems to me to indicate not having thought critically about my motivations. Also, it was funny.

[Servant Lancer]

It's difficult to learn your motivations when you dont communicate them. Explaining it now is well and good, but that's easy to do when you have so much distance from the original action.

I don't think you forgot about any scumreads, the posts were literally back to back, so suggesting that that would be the problem were you scum feels is arguing against something I didn't suggest to begin with. Deciding to pressure Ruler there feels pointless, especially when it's nothing but putting a vote out there with no attempts to move others in that direction. What were you hoping to get out of the vote?

[Cabd]

Prodded Servant Ruler