Newbie 2025 | Lilies | Game Over

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Something I was thinking about. This is for MUSHSHAGANA and MagikHorse. Why are guys not questioning my townread on Redados? Redados is in the exact same category as shelly. It was his first game onsite and my first time playing with him. I’m using the exact same logic to read Redados that I am for shelly. If the premise of your argument is not to look at meta or to look at both the similarities and differences to come to my conclusion, then why not question my townread, why only the scumread? This is why I don’t necessarily like the push. I feel that if shelly is scum than one of you may be her partner.

This post makes very little sense if Casey is in a team with ItalianoVD.

[LavarManos]

If he legit didn't take an action and just happened to be tracked, combined with all the daytime interactions, and he's still mafia? Then sure. I won't feel bad about losing to that.

Ok. VOTE: Casey.

You could, y'know, build a case of you actually feel that way. Instead you say in the post above that you're only interested in protecting your own butt.

If I believe Fred to be town and he believes you to be scum, why do I need to put in effort to convince him that you are scum? I'm not sure why both of you seem to think it's scummy that I said that.

It's like he's trying to get both Fred and I away from him, and onto each other. To him it doesn't matter which, as long as one of us votes the other.

Not really. I was open to the possibility of scum!Fred, but I decided I was fine with taking the loss if he was. I wanted to make sure you were too as that is the fair play to make.

This post makes very little sense if Casey is in a team with ItalianoVD.

I don't see what you seem to be seeing.

[Casey]

Fair enough.

VOTE: Lavar

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I'm swinging around to it being Casey now.

[Casey]

Wonderful. Fred is clear, Lavar is mafia.

Fred, please recall that Lavar has been fencesitty, avoided controversy, said he's playing his scumgame. There's a time for "too scummy to be maf" and this isn't it. His D1 was terrible. His D2 he put in effort and looked like he was going to be a good townie but then decided it was too hard and hasn't done anything since.

Remember that Italiano and Lavar have

zero

meaningful interactions. When confronted about this, they both were like "yeah whatever eff off."

This should be an easy-peasy call.

Let's get on the same wavelength. What has you conflicted?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

I was just messing around. Let's end this.

VOTE: LavarManos

[LavarManos]

Fred, please recall that Lavar has been fencesitty, avoided controversy, said he's playing his scumgame.

None of these are true. I have not been fencesitty at all, and it is just that I haven't felt like I had much or knew enough to say things at certain points in the game. This led to me not doing much D2-D3, but I clearly was and am putting in (some) work D1 and today. I have not played scum yet, so I was only theorizing what my scumgame would look like. In fact, I feel like there would have been some differences. For one, I would have shied away from those interactions with Fred and Frogster. I never explicitly said that I was playing to my scumgame. After all, that would be foolish as either alignment.

There's a time for "too scummy to be maf" and this isn't it.

I haven't really been scummy this game.

His D2 he put in effort and looked like he was going to be a good townie but then decided it was too hard and hasn't done anything since.

Didn't I say that I was busy? I don't really think what I was doing D2 was hard to continue anyways.

Remember that Italiano and Lavar have zero meaningful interactions.

So what? This is completely WIFOM.

When confronted about this, they both were like "yeah whatever eff off."

I don't remember being asked about this. Must have just been Italiano.

This should be an easy-peasy call.

It should!

Let's get on the same wavelength. What has you conflicted?

Yeah, I'm wondering what made you change your mind too.

[LavarManos]

I was just messing around. Let's end this.

VOTE: LavarManos

I was town.
Don't really blame you though. Casey put in work(unless you were scum).
Good game!

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Too bad then. The ItalianoVD's interaction with MagikHorse still look genuine to me.

[LavarManos]

Yeah, well I was glad to have one scum correct. Unfortunate that I townread Italiano so hard.
They did a good job.

[Casey]

I was town too! It was Fred all along!

Just kidding. Good game y'all.

Thank you Lavar for the compliment in #1132! Sorry you were the fall guy in the final 3. Your day 2 play was genuinely good, and I'd love to see more of that from you.

I had a great time with this game. Italiano, good effort until the unfortunate ending. Thank you for being a great buddy who incensed me enough in the thread to respond with a vote! Your interactions with MagikHorse were amazing and I wish I had the charisma the two of you displayed this game! Y'all were fantastic.

Frog, thank you for all the links! I read through all of Mafia University. When I got to the thread that was like "stop busing" I came up with a reason to unvote Italiano which I'm surprised nobody brought up a single time. It was a completely baseless read with no substance at all.

Fred, thank you for the game. You played exactly like your previous game and I had to not make any mention of this meta I knew about. Also yes, I did pretty much kindle the Frog vs Fred battle whenever that fire was getting low. Ehehe.

Redados, sorry for killing you. You were the towniest townie alive when I replaced in. Thanks for never questioning me at all. I was afraid of you the most!!

And Rocknil, thanks for playing! Would have loved to see more of you.

[Casey]

Also MUSH and Shelly, y'all were top tier townies this game. It's a shame y'all got ran up. I wouldn't be able to compete with either of you!

[Fredrick A Campbell]

You had me fooled.

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 4.01

LavarManos (2):

Casey, Frederick A Campbell

Casey (1):

LavarManos

Not Voting (0):

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2020-09-21 22:05:00), at which point we will default to no elimination.

With three players alive, it takes

two

to reach majority.

[Nahdia]

LavarManos has been eliminated. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

A win condition has been achieved.

The mafia team of Casey (

Mafia Rolecop

) and ItalianoVD (

Mafia Goon

)

is victorious.

[Nahdia]

good game, yall.

Dead Thread: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12077367
Mafia Thread: (Awaiting Redactions)
Mod Topic: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12050929

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Incredibly great game all around. I think town's weakest players being better couldn't have saved us by D2: by the time Rocknil went down the scumteam was firmly locked in as townreads, and only Frogster's eleventh hour play saved even an inkling of hope for a town win. Lavar could have been a bit better on the dayphase before last, but even that would have only been a minor aid for town: Casey played the exact sort of game that I'm weakest to, and I find most players tend to townread that playstyle by default. Not to mention Fred's falling for the Italiano/MagikHorse play -- but that's no bad play on Fred's part, check the dead thread, we /all/ fell for it. It was still nail-bitingly close, from the outside looking in.

Special shout-out to MagikHorse, whose starting off the Casey slot locked in that scum win on multiple levels, as Fred found out for sure. I actually mistook MH's play for a town PR!

I wanted to be in this game for longer, but Italiano taking me out was top-tier play for getting rid of both of his biggest immediate threats in a single day cycle and creating a WIFOM-supported platform that even Casey was working until the end. That was my mistake: I was hoping to sort by NKA if I lived and create an escape hatch for town to get out of WIFOM hell there if I died. Didn't work out quite as well as I had hoped. Lesson learned.

Excellent play all around, amazingly fun game, thanks everyone!

[Nahdia]

copy/paste with edits from the dead thread:

For Newbies: Now What?

If you had fun, I encourage you to sign up for another game! If you have less than five completed Newbie games on-site, you're allowed to head right back to the Newbie Queue and sign up for another game of this style right away. Alternatively, if you've played five newbie games or you're just looking for a new challenge, you can sign up for a game in one of the other queues! Most other queues will have two games taking sign-ups at any one time, so you'll need to look what games are available and post specifically which game you want to join. The queues (with links in the names) are...

• Normal Queue:
  Games that follow strict parameters of what is and isn't allowed in the game and are balanced for by a team of volunteers. These are often minis (13 players) or more (large), so it'll probably be a bigger table than what you experienced here. But normals are a great place to go if you're looking for setups that aren't too complex.
  
• Open Queue:
  Similar to the Normal Queue, but with open setups, like what you experienced in this game (newbie queue uses a semi-open setup). An open game just means you know what roles are going to appear in the game, or what games COULD appear in the game in a tight matrix like this game. Another great jumping-off point from newbie games.
  
• Micro Queue:
  Micros are games with 9 or fewer players, just like newbie games. If you liked the size of this game, the micro queue is a great place to look next. Be warned though, as long as the game has 9 or fewer players, these games could just be about anything as long as they're still mafia, though oftentimes the game mod will explain it a bit. They are often but not always theme games (explained below).
  
• Mini Theme Queue:
  Theme games have none of the constraints of normals. They are not necessarily balanced (though moderators usually try to balance their games, since otherwise they're not fun). Often times the game will be themed around a media property like a video game or a TV show, or an original work of fiction. Many of these games are role madness (meaning there are no vanilla townies) or have new and power roles. As a mini queue, games have had most 13 players.
  
• Large Theme Queue:
  Like the above, but with more than 13 players, often upwards of 20. These games take signups in their own threads in this forum. Though not always, large themes have a reputation for being on the far end of complexity and require a lot of dedication, since these games can go on for months.

You can join any game in any of these queues, as long as the game moderator doesn't put requirements on the game you don't fulfill (sometimes moderators will require that you've played games outside the newbie queue, for example).

Is there anything else to do on MafiaScum?

Yes! In fact, many old players who only play rarely or don't play mafia at all anymore are still a part of our community. In addition to forums for playing mafia, we have...

• Mafia Discussion Forum:
  For talking about mafia, whether it be drafting new setups or discussing strategy.
  
• General Discussion Forum:
  Where we discuss... anything that isn't mafia. A lot of the discussion actually happens in the Speakeasy subforum, which you can join via the Usergroups panel of the User Control Panel once you have 100 posts on the site. You can also join the Get To Known A Scummer (GTKAS) forum in the same way, which is where people have threads dedicated to helping others get to know them with the help of the GTKAS Moderator (me!). Also in this forum is the Newbie Introduction Thread, where you can introduce yourself to the community at large if you'd like!
  
• Mish Mash:
  This is where we play forum and board games.
  
• Large Social Games:
  Where people play things like online Survivor and Big Brother. You can find more info on it in that forum, I'm actually a newbie to that stuff myself.
  
• Discord:
  Info on our official discord server! A fairly new addition to the site (finally!). If you have discord, we encourage you to join up and meet people there!

If you have any other questions about this game, mafia in general, or the site at large, feel free to ask either here or by PM. I'm happy to help.

[Redados]

Nahdia you can release my personal thread too!

[Redados]

Redados, sorry for killing you. You were the towniest townie alive when I replaced in. Thanks for never questioning me at all. I was afraid of you the most!!

No hard feelings lol, I felt like the towniest townie which was tearing me up inside given my role! I was trying to lay low on day two for this reason

It's very funny that you say that because I had Magikhorse as kind of scummy at the end of day one, but if you look at my personal thread you will see that I had you as my TOP townread at the end of day two! You certainly had me fooled, well played!

[shellyc]

good game scum. Italiano and Magik distanced very well and Casey's opening actually read very town to me.

sad I got limmed d1 but scum definitely deserved to win this

looking forward to scum PT. Did you deliberately strategise the distancing?

[Casey]

Here's a quote from MagikHorse in the Dead Thread: "My secret? Just forget your partner's alignment and play naturally."

I still feel that's cheating. If you aren't mentally conscious of who your partner is, then you're going against the foundation of what I feel being mafia means: you have all the information.

It's deliberately denying yourself that info to give yourself an in-game advantage that you shouldn't have. I like playing fair and would never try something like that.

Almost50 did it in a game a few weeks ago, and it's frustrating. Like if you really feel you need an underhanded advantage like that to win, then fine.

I honestly don't mind it when people cheat, because I believe it means winning is really important to their self-validation. Or maybe cheaters cheat because they assume everyone cheats? I don't know.

Anyway sorry for the random rant! I thoroughly enjoyed this game regardless!

Nahdia, thank you for hosting. I loved all the photos of lilies!

[ItalianoVD]

I had an extreme amount of fun this game. I don’t like playing scum at all but the dynamic of the playerlist was very fun and I really liked my teammates. You’ll see from the mafia thread that we kinda had Frogster and Redados pegged as the pr’s, but we made a mistake imo on the night 2 kill. As as I said in the dead thread I believe we could have won with both scum intact had we gone for Frogster instead of Redados.

[ItalianoVD]

Here's a quote from MagikHorse in the Dead Thread: "My secret? Just forget your partner's alignment and play naturally."

I actually think that’s a great way to play scum as we saw in this game. The distancing between me and Magik set the tone for endgame. When that’s faked, it’s easy to show through. I think I can speak for both of us when I say our reactions were genuine.

Lol, at times, even though I knew the alignment of both Magik and I, I actually felt like I was town trying to defend myself against scum.

[MagikHorse]

Here's a quote from MagikHorse in the Dead Thread: "My secret? Just forget your partner's alignment and play naturally."

I still feel that's cheating. If you aren't mentally conscious of who your partner is, then you're going against the foundation of what I feel being mafia means: you have all the information.

It's deliberately denying yourself that info to give yourself an in-game advantage that you shouldn't have. I like playing fair and would never try something like that.

Almost50 did it in a game a few weeks ago, and it's frustrating. Like if you really feel you need an underhanded advantage like that to win, then fine.

I honestly don't mind it when people cheat, because I believe it means winning is really important to their self-validation. Or maybe cheaters cheat because they assume everyone cheats? I don't know.

Anyway sorry for the random rant! I thoroughly enjoyed this game regardless!

Nahdia, thank you for hosting. I loved all the photos of lilies!

The information is a byproduct of the role, but the basis for the role is to lie and deceive until only your faction (and its allies if relevant) can remain.

In essence it's not about the information you have, but how you try to look town

(or don't), and strategies on how to do that best vary as much as each individual snowflake. I understand you not liking this particular game plan, but it's definitely not cheating or unfair in any manner to ignore information you have, especially as it's hard to forget completely once you know. It'll always be there, tingling in the back of your mind no matter how hard you try.

Keep in mind that while scum does have all the information (or at least more than town does), they absolutely need to fake that they don't or they will quickly be caught. In that sense dishonesty is an utter baseline requirement as scum, as anything that reveals that you're more informed than the others is an instant red flag and will likely result in your demise. By extension hiding your extra information is a requirement to playing scum. All I did was take it a step further than most, and yet still found time to talk in the scum chat all the while. It's not easy to pull off effectively to this degree, and easy to slip up and fail altogether trying.

In that regard I'm surprised my extreme paranoia on Italiano D1 didn't get called out after their red flip as a fake-sounding push. To be honest this sort of paranoia is wholly uncharacteristic of me to begin with, as it's never happened in any game thus far to this sort of degree regardless of my alignment, and should've been a point brought up in later days. It could've potentially swung the endgame entirely if it was called out later in the game. In that regard I liked Shelly actually calling it out as faked, though by that point everyone was stupidly dead-set on her. That elim made me cringe, and I was scum.