Silent Star 2: Menagerie

[Morning Tweet]

¶

Votecount 1.14

[1] Isis:

PlusJOYED

[0] PookyTheMagicalBear:

[8] Not Voting:

Isis, PookyTheMagicalBear, Kanna, Ydrasse, Tayl0r Swift, Not_Mafia, Lokie Dokie, drusilla

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to execute. If there is no majority by the deadline, the mafia will choose who to execute.
The deadline is in (expired on 2020-09-20 19:59:58).

[drusilla]

i blindsheeped drusilla twice because i thought the post restriction would last all game and I thought I would never develop another read of remotely similar quality for the rest of the whole game, and I would pick that strategy over again if I could it makes sense to me.

why was your townread so strong especially considering you said you couldn't understand her?

everything is relative, maybe it was like 10% as good a townread as an average one in a post unrestricted game and it would still be the biggest read I'd expect to develop all game.

but the weird series of linked posts seemed to be saying

something

Also the way I was interpreting her WIM was based on having seen her join like 1 or 2 mechanically complex games here or there or somewhere and assuming this was her only account. For someone who isn't multitabling it seemed like it made the least sense for someone with that kind of play profile to stay engaged since the setup was all vanilla and the dayplay is simplified. It's less townindicative thinking of this person as shiki but there's separate reasons now

drusilla, what did you think of this?

i don't really buy this

it's very hard for me to evaluate this because to me i thought i was communicating clearly there and that's why people were sheeping it because it made (and still does 88 89 super mafia indicative to me so now finding out people were just sheeping it because i posted something that appeared game relevant seems....... disappointing? i guess. unless the part you aren't buying is the not knowing it was me and then now with that knowledge saying it's less town indicative, in which case, seems strange to me but i don't know what it means in terms of alignment.

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

i mean dont read into any of my posts. without knowing what the stakes were i was just posting. there wasnt really any reasoning behind my votes. i could try to retroactively justify my posts and votes, but day 1 i voted someone for being a cat. day 2 it was just a random vote basically. on day 2 i felt particularly like there were no stakes since the people who got voted (me being one of them) didnt face any consequences. stating who we would have recruited is pointless because as scum we'd just lie. if anything i dont trust that scum doesnt benefit from this knowledge somehow.

i think i referenced this a few hours ago or if not i made it up in my mind and never posted it but i think that this apathy is understandable but i don't know if it should be townread.

the effort to try and communicate through very rudimentary means loses the charm after a certain point which leads to this (or the charm is never there, lmao) but it's... really easy to say this as either alignment. like, as easily as town can be like "meh" towards the entire concept scum is probably very happy with the limited communication and can write it off as the former.

that being said, there is probably enough meaningful meta/shared games/etc between people here to make assumptions about recruitment. like, i can say some off the wall stuff about recruiting loki despite never having played with them before that i remember, and people are definitely going to question it. scum can lie but also the lies are probably more obvious in this situation? at least if you're assuming that people are voting for fun/familiarity which i would have done personally; i dunno if anyone here has the urge to win that bad where they'd fake us out.

@ Drusilla / Isis

can you please explain why you wanted to put PlusJOYED as the 2nd condemnation?

I found this part of your play extremely scummy and I don't see the town-motivation behind it.

why didn't you ask me about this? like, i was the hammer on isis but i think by spamming plusjoyed as a vote it seems kind of obvious i had preference of plus over isis.

If i was the scum here I would have recruited ydrasse and pushed a taylor elim I think

why taylor, specifically?

they seem to have a weaker town game no offense
this is coming from a guy who plays town like a crackhead

what about it seems weak...?

I mean I thought people were trying to communicate but I had no idea that Ydrasse was trying to write me a pictionary

the gifs/photos of the bear were clearly distinct in emotion!! smh

how about the game plays out this way...


I pick you up at the airport, your flight is late and they misplace your bags but I manage to get them from some very rude TSA people.

We drive down the highway, ocean breeze in our hair.

We see a nice spot - a cove with crystal blue water that reflects the sky.

I set up the table and you get the champagne out of the cooler in the trunk.

We spend a few hours drinking and reminiscing. Then I get the rest of our dinner from the trunk. The stars come out to watch.

We start on the heavier wine, there's a brief pause because you know the night is about to be over..

We lock eyes across the table and I see into your soul and I know what I have to do.

I apologize and go jump into the ocean. You go on to catch the bad guys who set us up..

was all that poetry a lie to me? i loved you..

Why do you townread Not_Mafia? I don't have anything there

Nothing about his play suggested any kind of agenda whatsoever and it’s pretty damned obvious, that scum would be the only ones totally not playing blind.

isn't it a lot easier to fake a ~lack of agenda~ in a phase where there's limited communication though? from what i know of n_m i feel like he's just being Himself which i do not know if it is towny or scummy but i don't think that him just doing his own thing indicates much in the way of alignment so far.

also, is it bad to have an agenda?

my vote was essentially random. i did not have a good grasp on the game but didnt think there would be significant implications for the post-restriction stage of the game. i did assume there would be some mechanic for letting at least some players post, and wanted to get to that stage as quickly as possible. dunno why everyone sheeped me, but i had no real reason to unvote.

this makes me feel a little better about your ~apathy that i referenced in this catch up.

And overall, how much stock would you put into recruitable scumreads? Enough to scumread me, but didn’t mean anything to you yesterday to want to pick pooky over sheeping drusilla?

whoops disregard this, I’m tired

Question still stands: how much stock are you putting into the recruitable scumreads?

It's kind of a place to start and something to talk about but dayplay should end up greatly overriding it.
I don't think you'd be picked because you're good at scum I think you'd be picked because you've played lots of games and your posts are fun.
I think you've played lots more games than Ydrasse. If by happenstance her fewer games overlapped with more people in this lobby well I didn't know that

i said b4 but i have played so far with you, pooky, taylor, n_m, and plus.

i have no familiarity with the rest.

Loki I think we are talking past each other a lot

I’m just kind of frustrated that you are placing so much emphasis on the experience aspect of it, rather than looking at motivations and what makes sense. It pretty much holds no weight for me one way or another how much experience plusJOYED has or whether they’re an alt or not. Are they making sense? Yes or no? Do you find their overall take of the gamestate to be reflective of a townie or scummy mentality? That’s why I think what Ydrasse is doing far more useful.

You.

i like you and this also made me think i should have more confidence in how i view things because... yeah.

okay here's a response to stuff as i reread.

i'm having an easier time reading outside of pooky/isis right now which blows. i like loki and drusilla, i dislike plus. n_m needs to give me a sign of his alignment in morse code. taylor is a hand-wiggle, and i think that i like kanna. i think.

[Isis]

kanna thought i was playing in a mafia indicative way during the post restriction despite also voting for pookythemagicalbear and now thinks i am playing in a town indicative way but isis thought i was locktown during the post restriction but now has rethought this due to me being me and i don't really know what to make of either of these. is something else i am thinking.

my head says i should stick with my townread and my flittery emotions say to worry

[Isis]

the follow up post about how you feel about townslips was helpful

[Kanna]

there's like lots of little pieces in why i think isis is scummy but i'm bad at organising; i'll try and express them though

firstly, i didn't like the easy townreads given to townslips and it reminded me of something said in my recent scumgame (pleasedon'treadunlessyouwannatownlockmeorsomething)

I've only played one game with Clidd myself, and in that game Clidd was town and was, for the most part, universally townread and considered obvtown by most of the playerlist. I get the sense that when Clidd is town, he is normally townread by most players, and he has a reputation of usually being obvtown when he is town. Meaning that if Clidd is town then some of his posts, such as his first readslist in 33, would seem townier to scum that it actually is, because at that point in the game scum might have just assumed that Clidd would end up being a universal townread. So scum may have just assumed that Clidd would probably start to get townread over posts like 33 and considered it a "towny" post without really evaluating its contents.

it got me/datisi caught there and i think a similar thing is happening with isis considering that "townslip" is super easy to fake

town questions it
scum see it and think "well it's a townslip, now i have to townlock this"

[Kanna]

I wanted it to face the same way as when I had a canon avatar. But I couldn't handle it.

why would you want that?

[Loki Dokie]

ill townbin this

eh. i really dislike this kind of thing because i've seen a lot of players as mafia use it to manipulate. it's null at best i think.

I dislike that drusilla didn't just issue you a townread the way Pooky and I did.

It's a little of BoPish of me to do so though.

i just don't see how this makes plusjoyed town. here's eve doing more or less the same thing as mafia:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11751833

like 'oh i didn't read the mod posts so i'm town' seems super easy to do to me.

Subject: Micro 934 | Hungarian Music 2 | Over

oh it's an open setup lol

i was wondering why shiki was crumbing bodyguard while i was one too

Like maybe this post?

[Kanna]

Also the way I was interpreting her WIM was based on having seen her join like 1 or 2 mechanically complex games here or there or somewhere and assuming this was her only account. For someone who isn't multitabling it seemed like it made the least sense for someone with that kind of play profile to stay engaged since the setup was all vanilla and the dayplay is simplified. It's less townindicative thinking of this person as shiki but there's separate reasons now

@drusilla; i moreso meant this part. what do you think of this? ^

[Isis]

I think the structure of Loki's post makes it a really clear townslip, and then he obvtowned on top of it so there is less reason to be doubtful about it.

I've said I worried plusJOYED's is fakeable, it's true even if he's not an alt

[drusilla]

ill townbin this

eh. i really dislike this kind of thing because i've seen a lot of players as mafia use it to manipulate. it's null at best i think.

I dislike that drusilla didn't just issue you a townread the way Pooky and I did.

It's a little of BoPish of me to do so though.

i just don't see how this makes plusjoyed town. here's eve doing more or less the same thing as mafia:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11751833

like 'oh i didn't read the mod posts so i'm town' seems super easy to do to me.

Subject: Micro 934 | Hungarian Music 2 | Over

oh it's an open setup lol

i was wondering why shiki was crumbing bodyguard while i was one too

Like maybe this post?

well it started with post 24 when eve says she's not claiming any alternate win conditions when it's clearly in the mod posts that there aren't any alternate win conditions which i picked up on and was the basis for my early game scumread there.

[Kanna]

Spoiler:

The sole mafia then proceeded to recruit their partner from the rest of the players, who was given an updated PM and a link to the factional thread.

VOTE: Kanna

The sole mafia then proceeded to recruit their partner from the rest of the players

VOTE: isis

purr, lick

VOTE: Kanna

VOTE: Kanna

sniff?

rumble rumble

sniff?

rawr rawr rawr
rawr rawr
VOTE: Kanna roar?!
UNVOTE: rawr?

VOTE: Kanna
RAWR!!!!!

The sole mafia

Isis
PookyTheMagicalBear
Kanna
Ydrasse
PlusJOYED
Tayl0r Swift
Not_Mafia
Lokie Dokie
drusilla

proceeded to recruit their partner

VOTE: isisVOTE: pooky

eee-ahhhhhhhhh!!

VOTE: isisVOTE: pooky

hee-haw eee-aaah. eee-aaah hee-haw.

Roar!
VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear VOTE: Kanna?

i want to go back to this. @isis, can you explain your thought processes for ^

[Kanna]

ill townbin this

eh. i really dislike this kind of thing because i've seen a lot of players as mafia use it to manipulate. it's null at best i think.

I dislike that drusilla didn't just issue you a townread the way Pooky and I did.

It's a little of BoPish of me to do so though.

you seemed to think it was townread worthy here + was even suspicious of drusilla for not thinking it

[drusilla]

Also the way I was interpreting her WIM was based on having seen her join like 1 or 2 mechanically complex games here or there or somewhere and assuming this was her only account. For someone who isn't multitabling it seemed like it made the least sense for someone with that kind of play profile to stay engaged since the setup was all vanilla and the dayplay is simplified. It's less townindicative thinking of this person as shiki but there's separate reasons now

@drusilla; i moreso meant this part. what do you think of this? ^

the only other game i've played on this account was the first silent star. i don't see why it's town indicative for 'drusilla' but not town indicative for 'shiki' but that's what i've been saying i don't know what to make of, so.

[Kanna]

kanna thought i was playing in a mafia indicative way during the post restriction despite also voting for pookythemagicalbear

your pooky post was probably the only post i understood. i took it as you thought he was being pockety/rushing an elim which i Somewhat Agreed with, but otherwise, i thought you were questioning things/posting for the sake of it which i found scummy + the plusjoyed vote over isis when i thought you agreed with me

i think i read you townread isis in the animal phase, why?

[drusilla]

kanna thought i was playing in a mafia indicative way during the post restriction despite also voting for pookythemagicalbear

your pooky post was probably the only post i understood. i took it as you thought he was being pockety/rushing an elim which i Somewhat Agreed with, but otherwise, i thought you were questioning things/posting for the sake of it which i found scummy + the plusjoyed vote over isis when i thought you agreed with me

i think i read you townread isis in the animal phase, why?

well it was the being pockety/buddying and then suddenly caring about the elimination. i was trying to communicate about the game, but i guess that was mostly in my head outside of ydrasse. i did agree that isis was a likely choice for mafia to make but i didn't think isis was playing in a mafia indicative way, as to me we had just discussed why she thought you were mafia and i disagreed, so it seemed like she was trying to solve when she didn't have to, because so few people in the game were, so why put herself in danger in that way?

[Kanna]

another reason i find the isis townread on drusilla dodgy is because there's certain types of players who would townread someone for being present while that isn't good enough for other people. isis is definitely type 2 and considering she didn't understand drusilla (even 140 which i thought was the most obvious post) i find it weird she wouldn't even question she was posting for the sake of posting

Also the way I was interpreting her WIM was based on having seen her join like 1 or 2 mechanically complex games here or there or somewhere and assuming this was her only account. For someone who isn't multitabling it seemed like it made the least sense for someone with that kind of play profile to stay engaged since the setup was all vanilla and the dayplay is simplified. It's less townindicative thinking of this person as shiki but there's separate reasons now

this part is also like v roundabout and strange to me

[Isis]

Here is what I was thinking for those posts

As I think about it I think you have a lot of point about me having a bad tendency to think you're good at scum and be paranoid and want to ice you out instead of read you. It was pretty bad in Achievement. And I think in a post restricted environment that tendency got exacerbated.
Pooky played scummier in post restricted while being similarly recruitable, I just kind of fell onto instincts and biases instead of sifting because of it being a bit of a meme game :/

Spoiler:

The sole mafia then proceeded to recruit their partner from the rest of the players, who was given an updated PM and a link to the factional thread.

VOTE: Kanna

The sole mafia then proceeded to recruit their partner from the rest of the players

VOTE: isis

purr, lick

Kanna is more likely to be scum than most people because she's recruitable. Also Ydrasse is towny if she also picked up on this

VOTE: Kanna

Didn't feel particularly scary to double down here given that you were on-wagon for Pooky.

VOTE: Kanna

sniff?

rumble rumble

sniff?

rawr rawr rawr
rawr rawr
VOTE: Kanna roar?!
UNVOTE: rawr?

The rawrs convey my excitement about a Kanna wagon. I didn't double down or provide reasoning here like pointing out that you were onwagon or beating the deadhorse about the recruitability thing because I don't think it is an end all be all deal.
Sheeping drusilla was far more important to me than the tiebreaker thing about recruitability so I unvoted here to show drusilla that if she doesn't want me on Kanna I care more about that.

VOTE: Kanna
RAWR!!!!!

I misinterpreted drusilla's post to mean she felt that Kanna was at least sketchy so I was excited about voting with her approval again still more interested in solidarity with drusilla, just confused about whether voting you was a break in solidarity. I hadn't gotten any affirmation for unvoting.

The sole mafia

Isis
PookyTheMagicalBear
Kanna
Ydrasse
PlusJOYED
Tayl0r Swift
Not_Mafia
Lokie Dokie
drusilla

proceeded to recruit their partner

VOTE: isisVOTE: pooky

eee-ahhhhhhhhh!!

VOTE: isisVOTE: pooky

hee-haw eee-aaah. eee-aaah hee-haw.

Roar!
VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear VOTE: Kanna?

Drusilla seemed to be saying "here is a pair of players I think would recruit eachother, Isis and pooky".
I was saying, "well, if you want to think about teams based on people who would recruit eachother, how about Pooky and Kanna?"
Obviously I prefer that to teams that include myself
The roar shows disagreement! Draconically!

[Isis]

How was drusilla posting for the sake of posting?!? did you read her posts? They were not an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of keyboards in the least bit

[PlusJOYED]

hi, i'm here and am going to read now and post some Things, but i wanna get my tinfoil of the setup out rn:

i think it is a pawsibbility that we have to go through our nom stages with post restrictions and then get to talk about them after?

i mean, the cat IS out of the bag (please laugh) now but i'm unsure how else the mechanic would tie in as we go forward.

I think we should do our best to communicate now and lay out how the POE will move forward - there's no guarantee we will get another chance to talk in the rest of the game.

I think both you and Isis are town, which is sad because it means we have a likely misexecute.

PlusJOYEd seems to be the only one who isn’t approaching this in way that’s optimal. How do they think Drusilla was not clearly trying to communicate something? How does anyone read her ISO and seriously think she was just making random sounds? I mean those links were anything but random.

why do people think im a girl my pronoun is right there and im cis
not that its a big deal


Anyway agree with Loki here. I've come around to the idea of looking for other stuff too after giving more thought and being told im wrong, and was annoyed people were ignoring the gladiate but that was probs the correct choice. Sorry for being a VI

[PlusJOYED]

leaning town pooky town loki town ydrasse scum isis atm
null on rest

[drusilla]

why do people think im a girl my pronoun is right there and im cis
not that its a big deal

i think the she's are referring to me.

leaning town pooky

why though?

[Isis]

Loki didn't mispronoun you, the antecedent noun for "her" was "drusilla". He doesn't disbelieve that your play was random sounds, but he disbelieves that you looked at drusilla's play and thought she was making random sounds.
pedit: yeah

[drusilla]

not that its a big deal

it is a big deal though and something i should fight for more because i always downplay it but it does bother me and then i see bugspray fighting for it and i feel so thankful for their existence. so i appreciate your doing so even if in this case it didn't apply. would rather that than not certainly.

[Kanna]

As I think about it I think you have a lot of point about me having a bad tendency to think you're good at scum and be paranoid and want to ice you out instead of read you. It was pretty bad in Achievement.

i have definitely picked up on this! i find it flattering and sad at the same time D: i don't like to be scumread, nor do i think i'm deserving of paranoia so !

but here, my problem is i think you're emulating it. like scum!isis thinks town!isis is gonna be paranoid of kanna so you just stick to that read because it's ez. i don't think there's a lot reason to scumread me early on and i still don't know if i buy you legitimately thinking i'd be recruited over maybe you think you'd recruit me because you like me

i think town!isis tries to solve me and you've shown that a couple of times in the marathons although those are kind of different to a normal mafia game