Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Prism]

Anyway, I guess I'm not really taking a break today.

My thoughts didn't change too much with the flip. Hectic gets some benefit of the doubt but SvS is still possible here. I want to look more at Puppy/Taylor/Pooky/MT, who I've neglected for the most part.

Kind of curious as to where Chara is at.

I really want Lavender to play the game.

[Chara]

i'm on the Sujimichi murder-wagon, Prism.
my other reads haven't changed much yet, aside from cautiously trying out Tanner in the townpile.

i do still townread Tweet pretty strongly, but i wonder about Taylor being so high in that townlist. i like the explanation for the Puppy positioning.
i'd also like Lavender to play.

[Chara]

granted i'm half-playing, half-painting my nails, half-watching hbomberguy's review of RWBY.
that's right, i am 150% present.

[Morning Tweet]

LOL i need to explain that tayl0r thing at some point it's probably going to make me sound insane

No I don't remember why i put her there but I felt very strongly about it when i did

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky on the other hand having his first vote of the game be on Ele when it looked like that was going through for sure is sus. Why didn't you ever vote for catboi, Pooky?
It's a good thing I can see your SOUL through how Ele interacted with you...

I never got to the point where I wanted to elim catboi.

[Chara]

i got all excited for you to tell me about your insane Taylor-town reasoning. :< scumhunter, interrogate thyself.

[Prism]

Can you walk me through exactly how a beeboy scum flip led you to suspect me more as scum? Your scumread Day 1 was correct, so I don't see it as earthshaking. All of the points you're making feel less like a reread and more like something you've had waiting in the wings.

I didn't answer the first post about why I never asked you more on the reads. I was directly engaging with you, asked enough questions as is, and expressed my issue with the town (-MT) ordering section. It's pretty clear what I'm confused about and leaves it up to you whether to expound on it. I suspected it was just manure. I could have inserted a question mark if I wanted, though, sure.

You were never voting for Ele despite expressing the fact you wouldn't mind a FIGHT there, and were regularly voicing support for FIGHTing me - a potential counterwagon to Ele. Fortunately for me, that lost its support towards the end.

So how did you work through this in your mind? You seem to have focused primarily on my interactions with you. Did you look at my interactions with Elements/beeboy at all?

I have my own thoughts/defense to this but I'll cut it out for now and save it for after.

Regarding the reaslist part: Which part of it were you bothered about? I wasn't exactly going to expound the whole thing -Morning without knowing what was concerning you.

The part that stuck out the most to me was that I was above Lavender, who you gave a meta reason to townread that you seemed to strongly believe in.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky on the other hand having his first vote of the game be on Ele when it looked like that was going through for sure is sus

I don't think this is a fair framing of the situation - as far as I remember I was one of the first people to suspect/push ele no?

[Prism]

To be clear Hectic, what I'm looking for is a loose timeline to lay out for me how you thought about this/how you chose to investigate it over time.

[Chara]

500 words minimum, double-spaced, APA cited.

[Prism]

i'm on the Sujimichi murder-wagon, Prism.
my other reads haven't changed much yet, aside from cautiously trying out Tanner in the townpile.

I'm not really onboard with you. Me/catboi came to the same conclusion of their slot being town,

for the same reason

(Comparing their play to SIN/finding it a very natural extension). This is a real rarity.

#383 seems unlikely to me coming from an Elements/redtea team. Their stances in #427 and 595 aren't as good but don't seem that indicative to me?

Lastly, the catboi kill doesn't really seem to fit this. catboi was pushing my slot for scum and had redtea as hardtown. They're not very fightable but other than that ??? why kill this slot as Sujimichi

[Hectic]

Sure, Prism.

Towards the end of Day 1, I started thinking about how persistent you were on I being scum, and whether it was in good faith, and then I started thinking about how stupid I'd look post game if I was hard townreading scum who was trying to murder me. I started looking at your posts with a little more paranoia and small things pinged me, like the way you formed that townread on catboi, or how you mentioned Ele/I could be SvS but then dismissed it as total crap. I can't articulate on either of these because they were "pings", and not something I can form a reason for standing out to me. I also noticed you weren't questioning me on my readlist despite calling it strange, but I didn't think this productive to enquire about as it only brings more focus/attention to me which is unneeded, especially since I was trying to push Ele through.
You asking Chara/I to look into your scumgame didn't ping me at the time. It pinged me closer to the end of the day when you replied back to the both of us and mentioned you didn't really have a good reason to ask us to read it.

After Ele flipped scum, it naturally makes anyone who was pushing non-Ele wagons a little more sus. You were pushing a wagon on me all game, and while Ele was the counterwagon. I wanted to get out most of the things that were pinging me about you from the previous day which I could articulate on, and which was now useful to enquire you about.

So, yes, you are correct that all that was stuff I picked up on day 1.

[Prism]

Like weirdly enough my top pick for the day so far is probably Lavender with a chance of Tayl0r/Hectic.

beeboy trying to get me to swap to Tayl0r was really blatant but I'm really puzzled over why the majority of those votes on beeboy happen from scum perspectives. Me/Tanner both had incentive to hammer but the earlier votes are pretty ??? as scum

[Hectic]

500 words minimum, double-spaced, APA cited.

Oh, whoops.

>Prism hard town


>but WHAT IF Prism was scum


>Prism paranoia


>Ele scum!


>Prism push


Prisms are normally grounded and polished transparent materials shaped geometrically and optically. Usually materials include glass and plastic. In optics, prisms are transparent optical elements that refract light whereby two of the flat surfaces must have an angle between them. The angle, position and number of surfaces help define the function and type. Traditionally geometrical shapes are triangular prisms. (Newton Herschel, 2009, Duarte and Piper, 1982)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dispersion_prism.jpg File:Light dispersion conceptual waves.gif

Figure 1. A triangular prism, dispersing light; waves shown to illustrate the differing wavelengths of light (2008)

Prisms work by the principle that light changes speed as it moves from one medium to another; for example, from air into the glass of the prism. The speed change causes the light to be refracted to enter the new medium at a different angle, according to Huygens principle; which is in brief a method of analysis applied to problems of wave propagation. According to Snell’s law; the degree of the light’s path bending depends on the angle of incident the beam of light makes with the surface, and on the difference between the refractive indices of the two media. The refractive index of many materials; such as glass, varies with the wavelength or colour of the light used, a phenomenon known as dispersion as shown in figure 1. This causes light of different colours to be refracted differently as well as to leave the prism at different angles, creating an effect similar to a rainbow.

In optometry how prisms work is by shifting corrective lenses off axis, images seen through them can be displaced in the same way that a prism displaces images. Eye care professionals use prisms, as well as lenses off axis, to treat various orthoptics problems; such as diplopia, positive and negative fusion problems, and positive and negative relative accommodation problems. Commonly used are wedge prisms which are used to deflect a beam of light by a fixed angle. In terms of the eye beam of light; it is deflected on to the retina, ideally fovea, however can be other location on the retina which gives clearest image. The most generally found are Risley prism pair in optometric practices and hospital eye services for diagnostic use. (Newton Herschel, 2009, Duarte and Piper, 1982, Duncan et al., 2003)

[Hectic]

Pooky on the other hand having his first vote of the game be on Ele when it looked like that was going through for sure is sus

I don't think this is a fair framing of the situation - as far as I remember I was one of the first people to suspect/push ele no?

This is also true, and Ele OMGUSing you and pushing you as Chara is another town point in your favour, unless he was already in anti-spew mode, and if so... respect.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i kinda like Taylor Swift for mafia with Ele

thoughts?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

at this point we just have to nail one of the two remaining scum to win right? I think TS and Redtea are the most likely to be Ele's partners. This is not based of a re-read, this is just a gut level feeling. I will do the work to justify this read later.

[Prism]

My issue with this is that you don't really seem to have evolved in this read beyond the things you seemed to have been mulling over on Day 1 already.

The gap to me is connecting my play with Elements/beeboy more explicitly by looking at how we interacted. It's one thing to not find it persuasive one way or the other. It's another to not have seemingly thought about it at all, especially when I'm your first hurt vote of the day.

There's also the unanswered question of why I was above Lavender, and honestly why I was townread at all since you just chalked it up to gut Day 1.

[Hectic]

I can't point to anything specific that you did on day 1 that made me put you as town. It was mix of your tone feeling towny, having coherent thoughts that I agreed on (outside of scumreading me obviously), and my early reason for thinking you were town from the EV calculations.

The combination of those things along with you solving and progressing the game is what made you strong town.

I've only looked at Ele interacting with people from his ISO btw. I didn't properly reread anyone last night, but will look at your mentions of Ele along with how others treated him at some point.

[Prism]

So how did you work through this in your mind? You seem to have focused primarily on my interactions with you. Did you look at my interactions with Elements/beeboy at all?

I have my own thoughts/defense to this but I'll cut it out for now and save it for after.

Part I cut out:

I explicitly didn't voteswap just so I could trollhammer that lmao, I was actually kind of worried that if it flipped red people might question if I knew Chara wouldn't exit. I shouldn't get that much credit for the hammer but I think acting like I was hunting for a wagon elsewhere is disingenuous, in that it was VERY obvious the last few days that this would not happen. The best shots were Tayl0r/Lavender, and I clearly expressed that I would vote beeboy over both. #979 from beeboy gets replied to with 980, where I double down on 926's statement that they will likely be my vote.

I time my push on beeboy basically from the moment of his replace-in, rather than treating it as a chance to give a scum partner breathing room. 1031 is the figurative nail in the coffin.

[Prism]

in that it was VERY obvious the last few days that this [Hectic vote] would not happen.

[Prism]

Lavender-what can we do to help you succeed here? Do you have any questions, anything you're confused on, or any reads you want to talk about? Help us help you

[Lavender]

Lavender-what can we do to help you succeed here? Do you have any questions, anything you're confused on, or any reads you want to talk about? Help us help you

I do appreciate this, though at this moment my head is filled with math formulas and homework...
I swear I’ll do more things on the weekend and re-read everything ah

Oh there is one thing!
Hectic calls people different names? Maybe?
I really can’t tell, who is Launchy and who is Master Glyde?

Uhmm, I’ll ask more tomorrow probably not gonna lie _o—<

[Tayl0r Swift]

Here's the breakdown after my reread:

Prism
Pooky
Tayl0r
Catboi
-------- SPARE LINE --------
Hectic

Redtea

Chara
-------------------------------
Tanner
Puppy
-------------------------------
Lavender
Elements-beeboy

i don't necessarily disagree with you, but how did you get from here to there?

The process was probably something like..

0. Beeboy-elements scum, catboi town
1. Puppy up twice
2. Tanner up
3. Lavender may be town I really dunno, check the next tier where {Chara, Hectic, Tanner, Redtea} are. Most likely scum in there is Redtea, move them down

Prism
Pooky
Tayl0r

Catboi

-------- SPARE LINE --------
Puppy
-------------------------------
Chara
Hectic
Tanner
-------------------------------
Lavender
Redtea

Elements-beeboy

yesterday i was unsure about catboi and elements, but agreed with the rest of the readlist. actually im not quite sure why im so high up, but im not gonna question it too too much. i prolly just pocketed you by flopping your ears. i propose that we move hectic up in the readlist, and chara down. i really really feel like chara is chara.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i really really feel like chara is chara.

I would like to know more - this is very interesting