Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

[Menalque]

Menalque coming out with their nonsense about how I’m all of a sudden suspicious because I didn’t vote for Osuka when they wanted me to but after I had taken some time to reflect is really putting me over the edge here. That set of posts was the epitome of not taking ownership for your mistakes. I wasn’t the one arguing that another player had tripped a particular tell only to backtrack later. Give me a break.

Fam I’m not even pushing you?? The fact that you were saying you supported osuka wagon (or weren’t opposed?) or something but that you wanted to see how things shook out meant that I had to do ALL of the pushing there and take all of the heat

Yes, it’s concerning to me that when I was catching up i then saw you posting about how you thought that the wagon that you had verbally been in at least tacit support of while it was building would spew me scum if it flipped town because something was off about it

[Andresvmb]

You expressed such certainty about Osuka, that it was hard for me to see a world where Osuka’s alignment has no bearing on yours. Why is that difficult for you to understand?

[Menalque]

I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

You’re making me want to throw my phone towards the wall.

Wonderful

Why

How am I supposed to trust your view of Osuka when you readily admit that part of your argument is compromised?

...because the other part is still valid? Like my being wrong on the ellitell (which I couldn’t go into details on but have tried to detail as much as poss) doesn’t remove the other things that are scummy about his play throughout the day

I’m just also less sure on that bc I don’t know if he would react that violently as scum

I mean, I’m thinking it’s NAI from an intellectual standpoint because sure, scum get salty about being caught for the wrong reasons

But like, idk if scum!osuka gets that salty and kind of righteous as scum for being caught for the wrong reasons

[Menalque]

You expressed such certainty about Osuka, that it was hard for me to see a world where Osuka’s alignment has no bearing on yours. Why is that difficult for you to understand?

I find it odd that you’re not reconciling the difference between that certainty coming from a place where I was sure that osuka was straight up lying vs how I’m looking at it now

[Menalque]

I’m not even saying that’s scummy but I just find it weird

[Menalque]

But actually wait, explain more to me

Why did my level of certainty imply my alignment in relation to osuka? That’s what I’m not getting

[Andresvmb]

^you are very clearly not sure about Osuka. That’s the thing. And that’s fine! I’m not saying you have to be absolutely sure about what you’re pushing. But I simply did not have the confidence you did about a vote for Osuka. So I wanted to see how people reacted to it. I really don’t think my approach was ridiculous at all.

[Andresvmb]

But actually wait, explain more to me

Why did my level of certainty imply my alignment in relation to osuka? That’s what I’m not getting

Because aggressively asking for someone’s head is a great way to clear players, particularly early. If Osuka flips Scum, you really think I’m going to turn around and assume you’re Scum? The evidence would have to be overwhelming.

[Menalque]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous

I’m saying it worried me because I can absolutely see how scum!you seeing me start pushing and deciding to stay out of it during the wagon while not actively opposing it knowing that if I succeed in pushing the wagon through then (1) you get a free misguillo and (2) I’m significantly weakened and open to a push later, something that I don’t think scum!you realistically sees as viable today for instance

That’s not to say that I think you’re scum, but I had you pretty solidly as town, and you making posts that felt like you were setting up for a narrative in line with point (2) pinged me

[Andresvmb]

If Osuka flips Town, I would absolutely begin questioning your motivation. Why was the push so aggressive? Why did Menalque think it was so important to crowd out other voices and push for a specific player? I already said it doesn’t imply that you’re Scum necessarily. But I am absolutely looking at your slot much more carefully if Osuka flips Town.

[Menalque]

But actually wait, explain more to me

Why did my level of certainty imply my alignment in relation to osuka? That’s what I’m not getting

Because aggressively asking for someone’s head is a great way to clear players, particularly early. If Osuka flips Scum, you really think I’m going to turn around and assume you’re Scum? The evidence would have to be overwhelming.

Okay but earlier you were saying my being wrong would be a significant bump in scum equity for me, no? Why?

[Andresvmb]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous

I’m saying it worried me because I can absolutely see how scum!you seeing me start pushing and deciding to stay out of it during the wagon while not actively opposing it knowing that if I succeed in pushing the wagon through then (1) you get a free misguillo and (2) I’m significantly weakened and open to a push later, something that I don’t think scum!you realistically sees as viable today for instance

That’s not to say that I think you’re scum, but I had you pretty solidly as town, and you making posts that felt like you were setting up for a narrative in line with point (2) pinged me

But why do I have to stay away at all? You’re already taking the heat! You are already super aggressive towards Osuka and have posted all these reasons in thread. What Scum benefit do I derive from waiting there?

[Menalque]

If Osuka flips Town, I would absolutely begin questioning your motivation. Why was the push so aggressive? Why did Menalque think it was so important to crowd out other voices and push for a specific player? I already said it doesn’t imply that you’re Scum necessarily. But I am absolutely looking at your slot much more carefully if Osuka flips Town.

I felt like you were implying more strongly that it was very likely I was scum if osuka was town tho, but not saying it outright

Wait lemme pull the quote

[Andresvmb]

If Osuka is Town, and you’re so over the top about your push that you even admit to providing cover for others, and you’re TR’ing me, why do I care to wait at all? That’s what I don’t understand. You’ve already given me all that I need to vote for Osuka and care very little about the consequences. So it definitely can’t be that.

[Menalque]

Menalque is either correct, Town, and will be completely obvious tomorrow. Or, he will try and sleaze his way out of a bad situation if Osuka flips Town, and we will have to make a decision as to whether he is worth listening to anymore, is Town, or is just Scum and needs to go.

This, in particular, is what bothered me

I know that later in the post you say it doesn’t necessarily make me scum but this felt a lot like a way to marginalise me in the case that I’m wrong on osuka

And now that I feel like there’s a meaningful chance I might be wrong on osuka, that’s concerning because scum!you already knows I’m coming out wrong

[Andresvmb]

Menalque is either correct, Town, and will be completely obvious tomorrow. Or, he will try and sleaze his way out of a bad situation if Osuka flips Town, and we will have to make a decision as to whether he is worth listening to anymore, is Town, or is just Scum and needs to go.

This, in particular, is what bothered me

I know that later in the post you say it doesn’t necessarily make me scum but this felt a lot like a way to marginalise me in the case that I’m wrong on osuka

And now that I feel like there’s a meaningful chance I might be wrong on osuka, that’s concerning because scum!you already knows I’m coming out wrong

You know who expressed far more certainty that your push on Osuka was TvT? Plus. Go check.

[Menalque]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous

I’m saying it worried me because I can absolutely see how scum!you seeing me start pushing and deciding to stay out of it during the wagon while not actively opposing it knowing that if I succeed in pushing the wagon through then (1) you get a free misguillo and (2) I’m significantly weakened and open to a push later, something that I don’t think scum!you realistically sees as viable today for instance

That’s not to say that I think you’re scum, but I had you pretty solidly as town, and you making posts that felt like you were setting up for a narrative in line with point (2) pinged me

But why do I have to stay away at all? You’re already taking the heat! You are already super aggressive towards Osuka and have posted all these reasons in thread. What Scum benefit do I derive from waiting there?

I would imagine that you maintain a greater distance from me and get to argue that you were persuaded to join ultimately as your townreads hopped on — it means you don’t have to say you agreed with my case necessarily and that you always had reservations but given that I was confident you were fairly happy I was town at the time and your other townreads joined you were okay with it

Which is definitely a way to avoid responsibility and why I’m instinctually inclined to slightly trust more people who get with me in a push from the beginning provided it’s not mindless sheeping or insanely opportunistic

[Menalque]

Okay, hang on

[Menalque]

Also, one more thing: what do you think of osuka now? Like independently and in spite of your trouble reading him

What do you think of the way he reacted to me last night?

[Andresvmb]

But I had already expressed my reservations. They were out there. I don’t have to wait longer to be able to argue that - I’ve already said by then that I am not sure on Osuka, and I’ve quoted posts already that back up where my concerns are coming from. I don’t think I need to shield myself every which way in order to put a vote down. Like if I’m Scum, I’m overplaying there.

[osuka]

I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

I wanna take this opportunity to point out that nearly every single post you’ve made over the past several tens of pages is absolutely moronic

[Andresvmb]

Also, one more thing: what do you think of osuka now? Like independently and in spite of your trouble reading him

What do you think of the way he reacted to me last night?

I think that it’s impossible for me to say definitively what the reaction even is. Now that you and Osuka agree that they were not active on site while avoiding this game (at least not in any meaningful way), why would they not be upset that you’re actively calling them a liar? It‘s very easy to get agitated at someone making a completely dubious argument against you.

[Menalque]

Okay, I went back and looked plus is like, very confident not only that osuka-me is TvT but also that apparently several other fights are TvT

[Menalque]

I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

I wanna take this opportunity to point out that nearly every single post you’ve made over the past several tens of pages is absolutely moronic

[Menalque]

Also, one more thing: what do you think of osuka now? Like independently and in spite of your trouble reading him

What do you think of the way he reacted to me last night?

I think that it’s impossible for me to say definitively what the reaction even is. Now that you and Osuka agree that they were not active on site while avoiding this game (at least not in any meaningful way), why would they not be upset that you’re actively calling them a liar? It‘s very easy to get agitated at someone making a completely dubious argument against you.

Yes but what I’m asking is essentially: I know it is probably purely NAI the anger/frustration osuka was expressing. But like equally idk ifon an emotional level scum reach the same level of frustration as town do in that situation, and I cannot judge if osuka crossed that border or not