Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Ydrasse]

i wanted to be town too :c but i had fun still!!

[Ydrasse]

i think that... it wasn’t terrible honestly as scum but as the day went on things just sort of stilled and everyone realized they were town sitting there yelling at each other.

daychat would’ve been helpful i think for sure for us; i don’t have a clue as to how to make it better for scum. a single-use factional kill maybe? something like that...

[Ydrasse]

i really had fun though and liked this table and game even if i was intimidated!

[Isis]

Thanks for playing everyone. If I were to run this setup again I would 100% give scum day talk. But honestly I think the setup probably needs the removal of the firefighter and stumps. But then it just turns into a nightless with a much bigger ElLo which is a setup I've played and is absolutely grueling for town so maybe this setup is just broken. It's a shame because I really wanted to like it

Yeah I'm not sure about the setup. I think the good parts of are the rhythm of elims and NKs being somehow different from a mountainous game, similar to double day. But it sounds like you've determined that this exact rhythm is unfun by playing a similar setup if larger eLo's feel bad.

I do want to point out that there is still a difference other than "nightless with a bigger elo" even without stumps and FF: the strange incentive where eliminating primed players doesn't harm you as much is still present. I don't think that's a particularly fun or appealing conceit, but it is something functionally different.

[Bell]

I feel like the balance didn’t matter much in this game though.
The mechanics didn’t really have enough time to hurt the scum team, yeah?

[Bell]

i really had fun though and liked this table and game even if i was intimidated!

Glad you had fun.

[Morning Tweet]

gg everyone!

the bussing wasn’t planned or anything it’s just what ended up happening.

seriouslyt?!?!?!

[Ydrasse]

i am so sorry morning tweet.

[Ydrasse]

everything you knew about me was a lie...

[Morning Tweet]

╥﹏╥

[Morning Tweet]

i really had fun though and liked this table and game even if i was intimidated!

i second this, table was very fun

Even during the parts where it was torture

[Ydrasse]

you’re never going to trust me again </3

[Dannflor]

But it sounds like you've determined that this exact rhythm is unfun by playing a similar setup if larger eLo's feel bad.

I do want to point out that there is still a difference other than "nightless with a bigger elo" even without stumps and FF:

I think the main issue in such a setup is that scum's best strategy is simply always to never ignite until they've won the game. It's not so much Double Day as it is town getting no new information except for their own eliminations. I do like the difference of the strategical element behind chopping doused slots, but I feel that adds another element of frustration for town where they then have to guess at which slots they've exiled that are doused and then when eLo actually is becomes an uncertainty.

Granted, the forest fire setup I played in I was snowed by an RC/Ankamius scum team so that may have contributed to my frustration with the setup.

[Morning Tweet]

you’re never going to trust me again </3

i'm never going to META READ you again

Or maybe just not that meta read specifically. i do like repeating my past mistakes in similar ways

[Something_Smart]

I don't think it's just you. I think if I were to set out to design a setup that's frustrating for both alignments... this is about what I would design.

[Ydrasse]

for you i shall be extra friendly next game then

[Isis]

I feel like the balance didn’t matter much in this game though.
The mechanics didn’t really have enough time to hurt the scum team, yeah?

I used to agree with "this was a landslide so the balance doesn't matter" but after rolling scum in a variety of setup I've realized this can be flawed because it presumes the scum dayplay ignores the setup, and it doesn't. Scum can dayplay differently based on how much wiggle room the setup gives them.
For example, suppose this was some entirely different setup that is way way more powerful for scum, so much more powerful for scum that at the time S_S repped in he only needed one mischop to win the game. It's wrong to say, "S_S would have still been chopped that day and lost the game because we just saw that happen", because different lines of play would be available to him. Rather than townreading several slots and expressing that the game's solve didn't seem easy to fit in with the texture of the game fully enough to have a strong dance of going the distance for several more phases, he could consider doing a death meta case on one specific player that would implicate him if it flips green. That line of play isn't available in the setup we actually played, because the goal is to survive 3 chops instead of 1.

[Isis]

This setup suffers from a presumption that a highly flavorful mechanic will therefore be fun methinks

[Something_Smart]

Also, while balance might be a problem with the setup, I don't think it's the biggest one. It just doesn't seem very fun.

Pedit: I agree with that.

[Bell]

That’s true. Thank you for your guidance.

[Morning Tweet]

thanks much for repping in S_S and thank you for modding Dannflor !!

[Isis]

Any advice on my play? I know it’s not a newbie game but I like learning what people feel.

I think one reason it was scarier to townbin you that MT and TL didn't suffer from is feeling like you could pivot to voting any slot in the game, while MT and TL actively cornered themselves out of lines of play by more frequently stating townreads and their certainty level and the reasoning for them. You might be able to point to places in your iso where factually you were doing so; mafia constructive criticism is rough so I'm mentioning an impression off the top of my head.

I would say Farren did this even less than you, he just mega obvtowned in other ways for me day 1 so it just kind of didn't matter.

[Ydrasse]

...i would ask for advice but i think it would be “do more solving” yeah?

[Bell]

...i would ask for advice but i think it would be “do more solving” yeah?

Everybody has their own opinions about what scum looks like. Figuring out what the player list thinks is scummy And townie is all you need really.

Most of us thought that being friendly was a town tell. So you being friendly helped you.
Not solving much was a scum tell for some of us, but not for others.

[Isis]

Even if you can't manage all the added solving to go with it I think firmer stances would help