Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Prism]

Okay, let's talk about your townreads then. It looks like you're pretty confident in me, Pooky, and maybe Hectic? Are there any others?

[Chara]

real life things have me in a bad spot right now, but i would like to say <3 to all of you. you're all lovely and the game is lovely to be in, still. thank you.

[Prism]

oh if that's the case don't worry you're just in time

dr. pooky has a therapy slot open right after he finishes up with me, highly recommend

[Chara]

Most susp for me was when he responded to 611 with 617

I think when you TR someone you should at least have 1 reason off the top off your head that you can kind of write down and explain. So it feels to me like he was just townslotting Catboi without actually doing the work of coming up with a good reason to townslot him.

i don't remember if i said this out loud or not, but when i did my big redtea reread i do remember thinking it strange that he had been talking about kitty all day and was apparently tired of it, when those posts about catboi were not actually reasons to TR him, just stating that he was.

[Chara]

oh if that's the case don't worry you're just in time

dr. pooky has a therapy slot open right after he finishes up with me, highly recommend

i am finding myself strangely emotional about this.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

When I'm feeling stressed out I usually sit back with some soft piano music and close my eyes for a bit and think about trees, birds and rainbows.

Or drink lots of whiskey.

One of those two.

[Chara]

My scumpool at this point is like:

Sujimichi, Tayl0r, Lavender, Pooky, Tanner

Any combo of the first three is just......way too easy. But Pooky's play has improved tremendously since his initial reactions to catboi. His reads+reasoning have all made sense. I don't like those as much in hindsight, 610 really isn't generous and 633 is a bit disingenuous, in that Pooky openly avoided outing reads or discussing much outside of what the spare system should look like for a very,

very

long time.

After being suspicious of Pooky, I went to look at Tanner, whose interactions with Elements were early and

totally fine

. The only issues are that he gave beeboy a chance to post content and said the wagon was a bit too fast. Somebody call 911 on him. He also shuts down the Tayl0r vote so unless this it's Tayl0r/Tanner ???

I feel like if there's a deepscum it's one of those two but at this point there might not even be one. I just feel bad for still being cautious of Pooky for his early game despite obvious strong play.

i understand, but...

does there

have

to be deepscum? really and truly? nothing about the random nature of role assignments contains a clause wherein every scumteam must have at least one strong player or a reroll occurs.

i feel fairly strongly that Pooky is town, and this includes his earlygame play.
your dismissal of Tanner scum has me a little bit frowny face, Prism. i think those are good reasons to suspect him.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if redtea/suji is a baddie and we elim him today, we just auto-win the game, we don't even need to find the third scum if im reading these rules correctly.

[Prism]

I'm pretty biased against Tanner in that I always thought his play was just kind of

fine

. I can see him being scum with beeboy/Elements but it doesn't carry any sort of Aha! moment to me.

Why're you so confident in Pooky town? I think I get that Tanner voting Lavender over beeboy and going for LHF isn't a great look...but I really get it. I do think the Puppy vote deserves more of an explanation, though. Do you have anything else about him I should look at?

P-Edit You're correct, and I really want to clean sweep it. I think we have a very good shot at it.

[Chara]

Suji hasn't posted since their rep-in.
can i take this as an excuse to wait another day? some things happened and i'm really not feeling up to it.

Prism you wanted to hear something from me?

Naw, I just want to see your lovely avatar back on the page. Come back when you feel like it, though.

<3

Prism, is it bad that your approach to Taylor here is making me feel some odd alarm bells?

it feels like you're putting in some effort to be seen as solving. you

are

solving, but your specific reference to wanting to see Taylor's progression is bothering me in a way i can't quite place. you said the same thing when you were questioning kitty about his read on you, that you were unsatisfied with the progression and were doing your best to read him if he would just give you what you were looking for.

i don't really remember you solving in this manner in the prequel. i'm not even sure if i'm explaining this right.
your entire process is being communicated in the thread. there's nothing missing, there is no reading between the lines to be done because everything can be found in the thread.

this total transparency feels new. it's not even something

bad

, but it's struck me as purposeful so i'm going to ask.

pedit: i'm also hoping for that!

[Prism]

i am finding myself strangely emotional about this.

something about that bear..............................

it just fills the void in your soul and convinces you that, hey, alcohol is a better friend than any human ever could be anyway

whoops, I mean, that life is worth living and people love you haha

[Chara]

Why're you so confident in Pooky town? I think I get that Tanner voting Lavender over beeboy and going for LHF isn't a great look...but I really get it. I do think the Puppy vote deserves more of an explanation, though. Do you have anything else about him I should look at?

not really, the Puppy vote is also where my interest is re: Tanner and i don't think Tanner has discussed it in response to prompting yet, though i could be wrong.

i'm confident in Pooky town because... i feel strongly in my empty heart that he is.

i believe that, town or scum, he did come into this game wanting to have a positive outlook and be a positive presence, and his behavior follows with that.
i thought his kitty progression was very good, convincing in a way that did not seem made-up for the purposes of looking like a real push, and his solving since deciding to go for fights we can agree is really good, too.

i townread him early for his commitment to sparing, i think it would be harder for scum to show that devotion to a bit, and i generally think scum care less about the

method

of their win. pooky wanted to play this game differently, because it's a unique setup; do scum care about that sort of thing nearly as much?

[Prism]

Suji hasn't posted since their rep-in.
can i take this as an excuse to wait another day? some things happened and i'm really not feeling up to it.

Prism you wanted to hear something from me?

Naw, I just want to see your lovely avatar back on the page. Come back when you feel like it, though.

<3

Prism, is it bad that your approach to Taylor here is making me feel some odd alarm bells?

it feels like you're putting in some effort to be seen as solving. you

are

solving, but your specific reference to wanting to see Taylor's progression is bothering me in a way i can't quite place. you said the same thing when you were questioning kitty about his read on you, that you were unsatisfied with the progression and were doing your best to read him if he would just give you what you were looking for.

i don't really remember you solving in this manner in the prequel. i'm not even sure if i'm explaining this right.
your entire process is being communicated in the thread. there's nothing missing, there is no reading between the lines to be done because everything can be found in the thread.

this total transparency feels new. it's not even something

bad

, but it's struck me as purposeful so i'm going to ask.

pedit: i'm also hoping for that!

? I'm not really sure what you're seeing here: I've always put a ton of faith in progressions/how sincere they are. Deciding that Farkran's progression on me wasn't natural and wasn't showing good faith was step #1, tracing Nacho's progression on Chemist was a major focus of mine, and so was tracing Amrun's. I called Hectic's play that game extremely clean and not really making clear mistakes as scum, and this was a reference to that. Being as transparent as possible is also very much my town MO tracing all the way back to Dystopia

Mind you, I also obsess over progressions and am obsessed with processes as scum, but this is very much a return to center for me. I'm also trying to try a bunch of different avenues to get content that might be useful in the face of previous ones not working out well.

As scum I absolutely have to position myself well to go the distance and survive ~4 or so fights here, but the easiest way to get this sweep as town is just to nail down the last few slots and remove them from play.

[Chara]

i am finding myself strangely emotional about this.

something about that bear..............................

it just fills the void in your soul and convinces you that, hey, alcohol is a better friend than any human ever could be anyway

whoops, I mean, that life is worth living and people love you haha

please, i'm so lonely. mafia is the only time i talk to anyone. :<

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

that is a feeling I have too

[Chara]

Prism: thanks for the answer. i'm not sure what sparked the sense of wrongness there. your explanation alleviates a fair bit of it.

[Prism]

In contrast...One of the things that really interests me about you as a player is that I've never really been able to understand your progressions lmao, I think there are like 5 games of me going ??? that I did not realize existed until recently, but skimming through them made me laugh seeing that some things have not changed at all. I definitely took a lot more issue with them then than I do now. Your reads in Undertale 2.0 were generally also

fine

to me past the start. Like I couldn't really say "Yes! I understand Chara completely!" but I was always just like "I don't really get it but these are good reads." Maybe because you bussed, no clue, but yours in this game have similarly been difficult for me to wrap my head around at times (Somehow we had the same PoE minus redtea at a certain point? I really don't know how) without seeing malicious intent in them.

tl;dr: I literally don't understand your process most of the time but that's kind of what makes playing with you fun, and is also why I've asked you stuff only to revisit it during downtime instead of making it a priority lmao

[Prism]

Why're you so confident in Pooky town? I think I get that Tanner voting Lavender over beeboy and going for LHF isn't a great look...but I really get it. I do think the Puppy vote deserves more of an explanation, though. Do you have anything else about him I should look at?

not really, the Puppy vote is also where my interest is re: Tanner and i don't think Tanner has discussed it in response to prompting yet, though i could be wrong.

i'm confident in Pooky town because... i feel strongly in my empty heart that he is.

i believe that, town or scum, he did come into this game wanting to have a positive outlook and be a positive presence, and his behavior follows with that.
i thought his kitty progression was very good, convincing in a way that did not seem made-up for the purposes of looking like a real push, and his solving since deciding to go for fights we can agree is really good, too.

i townread him early for his commitment to sparing, i think it would be harder for scum to show that devotion to a bit, and i generally think scum care less about the

method

of their win. pooky wanted to play this game differently, because it's a unique setup; do scum care about that sort of thing nearly as much?

Okay I didn't read this before sending my previous post and this is hilarious because both of these are why I think Pooky might be scum (Wanting to be nicer NAI, I put too much stock in the strategic comment from the game, his catboi case was always very hostile/unforgiving imo but now it's easier to look back and think it might have been in bad faith)

In comparison his vote on beeboy+his play today has been much stronger imo, instantly able to whip out justification on reads and they all line up pretty well

[Chara]

here's my signature quote from my Not Chara account, which i used to play on.

"You're the oddest juxtaposition of reasonable and unreasonable I've ever seen."
---- Papa Zito

from a game where i tried my best, and Papa Zito tried his best, and we were both town with a hood together, and i accidentally drove him up the wall by being myself.

perhaps it's because i am unable to play mafia with any real structure? my game is almost 100% intuitive, i don't have a real scumhunting methodology, and structure makes me want to jump ship.
having the working memory of a goldfish doesn't make understanding my thought processes any easier, i'm sure. it might just be a function of how my brain is wired.

i didn't realize we had so many games together. what were they?

[Chara]

Okay I didn't read this before sending my previous post and this is hilarious because both of these are why I think Pooky might be scum (Wanting to be nicer NAI, I put too much stock in the strategic comment from the game, his catboi case was always very hostile/unforgiving imo but now it's easier to look back and think it might have been in bad faith)

In comparison his vote on beeboy+his play today has been much stronger imo, instantly able to whip out justification on reads and they all line up pretty well

responding to this right now feels like an exercise in talking about how we approach scumhunting more than about Pooky, so i'm going to leave it and see if i remember to address it properly later.

[Prism]

Some of these were actually replying to A50, the one in particular I remembered laughing at is this post from Buttersnap calling your hydra nonsensical but Ctrl+F "Chara" in my Evoker ISO, and this quote from a third game:

Chara has bothered me repeatedly but has played a clean game at minimum and is mostly intelligible.

Somehow is

not

from 2020 but is instead from

April 2017

[Lavender]

Honestly honestly, I feel like I’m in limbo _(:_」∠)_
Even when I roughly re-read everything seems like a puzzle with no edge pieces ah

I’ve exhausted my non-existent brain cells for practically no reason ah! ( ･᷄ὢ･᷅ )

I pay one headpoint giving me the debuff headache to say that I think Puppy is a townread I have
Ah ah ah a conclusive thing I have finally said?!
Ecks...does this count as conclusive?

[Prism]

Lavender, this is like manna from heaven. Thank you. Do you have any posts from Puppy that you liked in particular?

How do you feel about Tanner pushing you yesterday, but then shifting his vote to Puppy today?

[Chara]

i am not enjoying this trip down memory lane. British Monarchy was... a game. it certainly was a game.

i hope i've improved since 2017, at least.

it almost makes me regretful to see how we spoke to each other in Evoker.
kind of reminds me how Almost and i were at each other's throats in our first game together and subsequently decided to hydra.

[Prism]

For Chara, yeah I agree that hashing out playstyle differences right now might not be the best approach...but maybe it is? I think revisiting 610 from my perspective of maybe-scum-Pooky and seeing what you think might have value. Is there anyone else you want to engage on-maybe more Tayl0r, maybe someone else?

I am glad to have you here.