Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Prism]

This feels like you're missing that I'm the only one who is really still pushing anyone besides Sujimichi, and at times explicitly defending them. This game is whiteflag, so in the hypothetical world where Sujimichi flips Chara overnight, I probably need to go. Scum cannot afford to be fougt again, so the fact that no one else is a really pushing to look elsewhere says to me that Sujimichi is probably town. (Otherwise, their partner is making absolutely zero attempt to dodge autoloss)

1402 is a direct response to a question from Morning Tweet as to who would be Sujimichi's partner. I think reviewing the post through that lens it might make a lot more sense to you. Lavender+Suji is plausible as a team, but I say "God help us all" because both are literally impossible to get content from. Redtea is somewhat readable but Lavender is sa complete coinflip.

Re: potentially ruining the game, in the hypothetical world where I successfully argue to flip the fight from Sujimichi to someone else, say Tayl0r, and Suji flips Chara....This would be me arguing us out of mechanical autowin, and if I get misfought for it, would have cost us two misfights.

[CantHateAPuppy]

thanks prism! u win. don't share with anyone:

Spoiler:

i thought the fact that no one was pushing anyone but suji was a sign of late game apathy. is it not?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Re: potentially ruining the game, in the hypothetical world where I successfully argue to flip the fight from Sujimichi to someone else, say Tayl0r, and Suji flips Chara....This would be me arguing us out of mechanical autowin, and if I get misfought for it, would have cost us two misfights.

i still don't get it. not lynching scum is arguing out of mechanical autowin? yeah, if you argue us out of a scum flip, that's not optimal, but that's sort of skipping over the step where we figure out who scum is first yeah?

[Chara]

hey Tanner, i can talk about it tonight if you're around, but i'll respond regardless. it's mostly reconsidering townreading you for being blatant about the Elements when it is a fact that the scum elimination d1 screwed over scum pretty bad. your Puppy vote being "obvious" makes me think you didn't consider that, while it's good for scum to Spare here, blatantly arguing for it is a little too on the nose, like you didn't really consider what Puppy has to gain or if he thought he could actually get us to spare today.

it's not a scumread, necessarily, but i had some concerns. pardon the formatting of this post, i checked the thread and saw discussion and wanted to weigh in quick.

Prism, i have no idea how you talked yourself into a scumread on me while i was gone. should i be worried?

[Chara]

Instead of going to bed I'm skimming Chara ISO and this seriously bleeds town in interactions...but I still remain convinced from this random ass Elements post directed to Hectic. Incredible.

I'm 100% making art for this later.

...and worries averted. hahaha.

[Chara]

This feels like you're missing that I'm the only one who is really still pushing anyone besides Sujimichi, and at times explicitly defending them. This game is whiteflag, so in the hypothetical world where Sujimichi flips Chara overnight, I probably need to go. Scum cannot afford to be fougt again, so the fact that no one else is a really pushing to look elsewhere says to me that Sujimichi is probably town. (Otherwise, their partner is making absolutely zero attempt to dodge autoloss)

are you the only one? i don't know where Suji's wagon is at, but to me i felt it was understood that Suji is being pushed as scum but not as the only possible elimination... hurt by the fact the slot isn't here to react to the push, of course.

[Chara]

alright, i'll be back tonight, i haven't fully read up.

[Chara]

i don't really mind waiting for a rep-in and going after somebody else, if Suji's gone. they're pretty much at rand for a scumflip for me.

[Chara]

is betrayal a word? can such a thing be classified as a mere word?
surely not, as anyone who has been betrayed can testify, the knife in your back holds too much to be so simply defined. an enemy's arrow in your gut is a welcome pain in comparison to the bitter, cold steel of your oldest friend's treason.

tell me, have you ever felt it? it sets a fear in you that your mind retains long after your body has healed. the shape of it is carved out in your soul. you learn from it. nothing can make its home in that space again, and you're stronger for it, you think.

but is it strength, the despair that prevents you from seeking out that kind touch again? is it a power you now hold, the force that shuts your allies out at arm's length? do you boast of your folly, and warn others that someday they too will experience that delightful bitterness you grasp so tightly to your chest?

does it make it better, to know the betrayer meant no harm? their innocence infuriates you. they look at you with love in their eyes and joy in their heart.

your experience sits still, tightly coiled, hissing words into your head that repeat over and over again. its grasp is so tight you don't notice the poison seeping out.

try allowing the snake some freedom. let it stretch and explore once more. give it a little kiss on its tiny head. have you ever looked at a python? it's basically a puppy. pythons don't gnaw on things, they lack the ability.
and unlike a puppy, they won't gnaw through your PS4's power cable. they won't do much of anything, because they're kept in glass, or plastic, or some other substance that disallows the chewing of your valuables. snakes are great. it's like if a sock were an animal. a very thin sock that can bite you.
some people wear their socks to sleep. i can't fathom it. who would commit such a sin? do you enjoy being an affront to god? do you wear jeans to bed too?

[Prism]

I have another interview tomorrow so can't afford to spend time today/tonight, you get to avoid interrogation for another day.

1429 is misinterpreting. I still went to bed last night covered in tinfoil and expect to feel the same on review.

I do love 1433, just for how fun it is though.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Kinda admit I've been lurking / coasting myself, so apologies for this next part (esp after I was just pushing spares)

But I don't think the town is full of so many obvtown slots that were out of options? There are a few obvtown slots on the ele wagon and then the rest not

i could go for a puppy wagon here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

can you elaborate why?

[Tayl0r Swift]

puppy is coasting and not engaged. whens the last time you saw a post from puppy that wasnt fluff?

[Prism]

Art

Spoiler: Yes, art

[Tayl0r Swift]

memes, the highest form of art

[Tanner]

puppy's interactions with ele *are* decent from what i remember. i'd have to give them a reread and/or chat with puppy a bit more today.

What do you want to talk about

Ele had a weird push on me that felt forced, chara made a good point about him, I pushed and then he subbed out. I actually feel lucky more than anything, but there's still no way his partners wanted that bus to go through

i don't know what i want to talk about. something that makes me think you're not trying to murder us all, because at this point i'm sounding insane to myself. i guess a good start would be who you're willing to fight today and what is actually your read on me?

Scum cannot afford to be fougt again, so the fact that no one else is a really pushing to look elsewhere says to me that Sujimichi is probably town. (Otherwise, their partner is making absolutely zero attempt to dodge autoloss)

i thought the fact that no one was pushing anyone but suji was a sign of late game apathy. is it not?

why do i feel like something is so very wrong with this (puppy) post... what was your thought process writing this post? especially paired with 1420?

like i get the feel 1420 is the "this is the post i'm going to point at post-townflip to show i wasn't on board with it for townpoints", while 1426 feels like shutting down valid reasons by which prism is correctly getting to town!suji... but does that make sense? who is his partner?? am i cherry-picking the most minuscule bullshit??? stay tuned

[Chara]

is it bad that i, Chara "scum eliminations on day 1 lose games because town gets complacent and overconfident" Dreemurr, am not feeling particularly worried this day because we hit scum day 1 and therefore are in a great place?

because i feel like we're moving too far into the other direction here. again, obligatory disclaimer this is my opinion based on reading two recent pages and nothing else since a day ago.

Prism, i am glad you enjoyed the post. i wrote that after drinking two cups of coffee without considering the consequences.
also, i will gladly continue to be scumread by you if it keeps coming with all of the compliments. <3

[Chara]

intuitive response to Tanner's post on Puppy above is "towny paranoia".

[Tanner]

hey Tanner, i can talk about it tonight if you're around, but i'll respond regardless. it's mostly reconsidering townreading you for being blatant about the Elements when it is a fact that the scum elimination d1 screwed over scum pretty bad. your Puppy vote being "obvious" makes me think you didn't consider that, while it's good for scum to Spare here, blatantly arguing for it is a little too on the nose, like you didn't really consider what Puppy has to gain or if he thought he could actually get us to spare today.

don't know how long i'll be on tonight.

i am not actually sure how to respond to this. like, on one hand, i think that me being blatant while a scum fight day one is horrible for scum should be +town, not +scum, because i'd be actively and knowingly making myself look horrible in an environment where i'd know another scumflip is game over, with no gain, other than the "why would scum!me do that" wifom argument (which is working wonders). on the other, i have the privilege of knowing my role PM is green, which means i'm probably not able to be objective here.

sure, maybe it is a little bit too on the nose. i'm not 100% on puppy being scum. i'm not saying i have a full scum!puppy plan mapped out in detail. did he think he could actually get us to spare? who knows, maybe he did. the way he entered shooting down my idea of a possible bus, then asking for spares, the one path where a bus would actually hurt us, it doesn't make me feel good.

pedit: oh? chara called me towny?

[Chara]

hmm. i feel like there are good arguments for your day 1 Elements read to be taken both ways. i think i will try to read you today based on intuition instead of logic. i am so bad at the latter.

as for Puppy's spare idea: yes, i agree it isn't a good one. my take on the situation might be helped by how Puppy decided to vote me for spare, which i should not be townreading considering what happened in the prequel.
i do townread Puppy, but i'm feeling pretty good so i think i will ISO him from a scum POV for you once i'm caught up.

who else are you considering for scum?

[Tanner]

who else are you considering for scum?

i'm kinda shoving all of hectic/prism/morning tweet/chara/pooky as "this is most likely town, and even if it's not we're not flipping them today unless something mindblowing happens, so moving on" (yeah, i get it's funny saying that while watching the prism-chara thing brewing, but hey)

which leaves
suji - at the start of day two i pointed out that some of their connections with elements aren't... great, and i've talked about my read progression on redtea at the bottom of 1349. i have never played with suji, but from what i've seen of their play around the site, they're usually not that invested as scum and they often flake? and this game is kinda similar to their scumplay? the issue of "who are they partnered with?" is the only thing bothering me.

lavender - do we need another chapter of tanner ranting about lavender? i kinda wish they were at least, i dunno, trying to interact with me. actually kinda wanna hear what hectic thinks of this slot now. @hectic pls help.

puppy - we also don't need another chapter of this. also i kinda wanna talk to them on the things i brought up recently. will give an update at some point maybe.

taylor - i don't know. they're like. meh. i pretty much don't remember anything they've done.

i spent a good minute trying to figure out who i'm forgetting before realizing it's 10 alive, and 5 townreads + 4 maybe not townreads + me is 10
i'm tired

[CantHateAPuppy]

puppy is coasting and not engaged. whens the last time you saw a post from puppy that wasnt fluff?

who are you

[CantHateAPuppy]

puppy's interactions with ele *are* decent from what i remember. i'd have to give them a reread and/or chat with puppy a bit more today.

What do you want to talk about

Ele had a weird push on me that felt forced, chara made a good point about him, I pushed and then he subbed out. I actually feel lucky more than anything, but there's still no way his partners wanted that bus to go through

i don't know what i want to talk about. something that makes me think you're not trying to murder us all, because at this point i'm sounding insane to myself. i guess a good start would be who you're willing to fight today and what is actually your read on me?

Scum cannot afford to be fougt again, so the fact that no one else is a really pushing to look elsewhere says to me that Sujimichi is probably town. (Otherwise, their partner is making absolutely zero attempt to dodge autoloss)

i thought the fact that no one was pushing anyone but suji was a sign of late game apathy. is it not?

why do i feel like something is so very wrong with this (puppy) post... what was your thought process writing this post? especially paired with 1420?

like i get the feel 1420 is the "this is the post i'm going to point at post-townflip to show i wasn't on board with it for townpoints", while 1426 feels like shutting down valid reasons by which prism is correctly getting to town!suji... but does that make sense? who is his partner?? am i cherry-picking the most minuscule bullshit??? stay tuned

i don't know what you want from me, do you want a self-towncase? i think the fact that i sat on elements when i could have flipped off makes me ptown, though i get it because im kind of coasting and lost interest, this has happened to me basically every game except the one you played with me before. the game is always fun on day 1 but then when things drag out and people sub out it loses cohesion and by like day 53 or w/e it's less interesting.

usually wen that happens i have to invent some sort of minigame to keep myself interested. like our last game i tried to see if i could make persi look suspicious, since he was practically mechanically cleared. but when im town i have to push a case and that seems kind of boring rn tbh

and you're probably town? i don't think scum goes after me like you did today, you have the right level of town paranoia combined with that prickly side i felt yesterday. i dunno, convince me youre acting in bad faith and i could scumread you i guess.

[CantHateAPuppy]

chara, you're obviously town, i should be talking to you more. who do you think on the elements wagon is obvtown? this is basically my main lead right now, the last few pages dont do anything for me

[CantHateAPuppy]

like i get the feel 1420 is the "this is the post i'm going to point at post-townflip to show i wasn't on board with it for townpoints", while 1426 feels like shutting down valid reasons by which prism is correctly getting to town!suji... but does that make sense? who is his partner?? am i cherry-picking the most minuscule bullshit??? stay tuned

sealized i didnt address this. 1420 and 1426 are the same point. there doesnt seem like anything going for the suji case except apathy, so im not sure why prism is assuming it has to be suji but suji is also prob scum. (?) not sure what else kind of weird reaction im supposed to have to that weird sequence