Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm gonna leave and hopefully when I get back shelly is less toxic lel. Byeeeeeeeeeee

[Odd Day Jester]

Meta is Garbage is Garbage

When did this become a thing? I presume it came out as a reaction to the giant wave a few years back of everyone doing nothing but meta reads (which was also a bit daft) but I'd like to at least discuss some of my issues with the so-called meta issue that I see a lot.

First off, the 'people can change their meta' argument. To that I say, yes, and? People (scum) can game *any and every tell in the book* that's kind of the point of being good scum, doing whatever you can to appear town. Insomuch as I have a scum meta, it is to have it look as much like my town meta as possible, so, yeah, naturally players can and will and should do whatever they can to match metas, just as they should do it to affect any possible tell around. So the idea that scum will attempt to manipulate a tell applies equally across all tells, yeah? Unless the tell is actually objective (and the only ones I've personally found like that tend to be mechanic and voting based - so...y'know, stuff like setup spec and VCA that people *also* whine about. So, first off, this is a dumb complaint when someone uses meta as a tell.

"Meta is garbage!" This is another I hear a lot. I presume people say this because they've seen meta be wrong. Okay, whoop-de-doo, I'm pretty sure I've seen every tell under the sun be wrong. The real question is simply how well supported/researched is the meta being used. Is it from one game? Then maybe it's garbage. Is it from a five year history and 10+ games? Then I'd be awfully willing to buy it (and generally have never experienced people doing a drastic meta shift in some random game to break their meta and own face). So, once again, this makes meta...wait for it...basically like every tell out there.

"I change my meta every game, so I can't be meta'ed" I would suggest this implies you're a bad player, unless your claim is all town game styles are equally effective (and if you think that I'd love to discuss your research and conclusions). I also...well, kinda don't believe this, and even if it is exactly true - then that's your meta, and theoretically tells could be drawn from it even then.

So, basically, stop random attacking meta for empty reasons. If you have an issue with a meta case, describe them. If you can't, then it's probably a perfectly valid case as far as the style the case-maker has chosen.

Also, saying you hate meta is your meta - change it

[Odd Day Jester]

Shelly ignoring logic and meta against them is cute, appealing to ridicule

note to self regarding this post

I come from a chat mafia site where I have the reputation for being aggressive + assertive

also

meta is trash

Show us some off-site town aggressive shelly games if you have them.

[shellyc]

thats a wall to detract us from real scumhunting and instead devolve into game theory argument, -3 townpoints

[shellyc]

Shelly ignoring logic and meta against them is cute, appealing to ridicule

note to self regarding this post

I come from a chat mafia site where I have the reputation for being aggressive + assertive

also

meta is trash

Show us some off-site town aggressive shelly games if you have them.

dont have any, games aren't stored

[Saudade]

Jester if all you are going to do is claim that shelly is scum due to meta we are not gonna get very far while you two spam the thread

[shellyc]

saude you think we are TvT then?

[Saudade]

Like, you're not gonna convince anyone with that argument so keep your read at heart cast your vote and keep reading slots

[Saudade]

saude you think we are TvT then?

it's way too early for me to tell what alignment either of you are

[Saudade]

I'm browsing this game for like 5 minutes lol I am brilliant but even gods have limits

[Saudade]

what I'm trying to say is I cant read shit while you two go at each other with this meta argument, and I suspect nobody else can either

[shellyc]

reads
Saude town - similar to their towngame, disagreeable and not afraid to push reads
Bugspray town - The early read on noraa and opening felt townie
duppin town - UTR doesn't seem scum driven
Jester null - wondering if the early TR on me was a pocket and then pivoting after I started baiting
Noraa scumlean - slimy, self conscious, but tbh I might come around to town!noraa especially with scum!jv
Jackson scum - perspective slipped when they reacted to my bait, and just bullshitting using meta

[Redados]

I'm scumreading Saudade.

[Odd Day Jester]

Saudade, you're overreacting, there's been a page of discussion on it, and I don't think there's much else to say on it anyway. What do you think of:

shelly's 2 minute reaction test, which she said implied Jacko was scum, but then later backpedalled on:

Why did you only wait 2 minutes if you wanted to test the wagon speed?

seeing that it was quite obvious bait

i decided against it

This clearly isn't what you were making out here:

Uhhh, what

I was trying to see if anyone would jump on.

it's indicative of scum!jv tbh

You were actually implying Jacko was scum because no one jumped on in the 2 minute period.

Also, this backpedal which clearly isn't true:

VOTE: shellyc

I have no idea how you manage to roll scum so much.

the way you flip on me concerns me a tiny bit

the way you flip on me concerns me a tiny bit

Something something OMGUS for the 3rd time this game

concern != omgus

like, im concerned by how scum might manipulate Mr. Jester to vote wrong lategame.

I'm just trying to figure out if town!shelly is willing to lie to defend herself.

[Redados]

I'm semi-upset that we're on page 15 and it feels like we just left RVS. Not cool.

[Redados]

I'm also feeling scummy on Noraa and Shelly but can acknowledge to myself that it probably has less to do with alignment and more to do with playstyle.

[shellyc]

I'm scumreading Saudade.

saude plays like this as town; very distinct tbh

[Odd Day Jester]

We haven't been in RVS for quite a while now, Charmander. Why do you scumread the Moment of Brilliance?

[Redados]

no read on jester, slight TR on JacksonVirgo. i still don't know what LFH stands for I have looked it up like four times

[shellyc]

I'm semi-upset that we're on page 15 and it feels like we just left RVS. Not cool.

did you read

there was a SR on noraa TR on dippin and many ops and reactions to jackson / jester vs me

[Redados]

I'm scumreading Saudade.

saude plays like this as town; very distinct tbh

noted.

[shellyc]

LHF = low hanging fruit or lynchbait

[Saudade]

looking for hoes

[Redados]

I'm semi-upset that we're on page 15 and it feels like we just left RVS. Not cool.

did you read

there was a SR on noraa TR on dippin and many ops and reactions to jackson / jester vs me

I read. Still the weirdest I've felt on p10, lots of flips and lots of theater from jester.

[shellyc]

how do you think about jesters 180 on me because theres something wrong with it but i cannot point it out