Musician Mafia: Guitarists GAME OVER

[Starbuck]

My objection is that I don't feel that you're paying attention. You're not as on the ball as I've seen you in previous games.

Yes, this is what I noticed. It's kinda hard to know whether to use it as AI, it seems to me that her availability and attention level seem to fluctuate.

What's weirding me out is that she has misinterpreted me multiple times now. I'm not sure if she's going out of her way to do it or if her goal is to spin me up, maybe?

I've played with Titus a fair amount over the last few months and I haven't gotten this feeling off her before.

That and her immediate jump to sort me as scum, when I am most definitely town this game, is throwing me for a loop.

I haven't misinterpreted you at all. You are different than the Weakest Link. I want to know why but I can't articulate just how you're different.

For instance, you asking me for a readslist then objecting to the very fact I created it, doesn't make much sense. Why not engage with the substance unless looking for something to attack?

What are your thoughts on chkflip and IKS?

1. Yes, you have and you've done it repeatedly.

2. I'm not sure why you can't articulate why I'm different. Maybe because I've settled back into playing again and I'm not feeling so rusty anymore?

2. Of course, I'm different from Weakest Link. It was my first game back on site after like 3 years (I think) and I was dealing with the absolute toxic waste dump that was springlullaby as my welcome back to the site. I've already explained this. I'm not sure why that's the game that you're going back to (when there's Mafia of Revelations), but you're obviously not going to be satisfied with my answer and keep pushing this ridiculous idea, as you've shown already.

3. I actually didn't ask you for a reads "list." I just asked if you had any reads and if you cared to share - 967 (thanks for that bbcode help, Galron). I don't expect anyone to have a full list of reads in a large game, let alone in 8 minutes from my original ask, because that's an unrealistic expectation. I would have been happy if you threw out like a top 3 scum and top 3 town. I was trying to interact with you and see where your head was at because your ISO, to that point, left a lot to be desired and still kinda does.

4. I have been engaging with the substance, but there were other things to focus on, as well. It's not all about you and your slot.

5. While chkflip is being way overaggressive and could stand to back down a bit, I'm feeling town on him. As for IKS, I'm rather null, to be fair. I can see chkflip's point on folks just railing on IKS all game and him feeling downtrodden, I can also see Drew's (I think?) point that he's being purposeful in his trolling. However, the quickness in how the wagons have been building is a concern.

6. Wasn't it you who wanted to do some VCA? That could be helpful in the current game state.

[davesaz]

ok NPOM, I'll do your homework for you.

#720. And then not much has changed since then.

piss- It is a noticeable Decisive Action, by two players who haven't done much in that realm before or since

'Cept nono didn't vote IKS, right?

what's happening

IKS is scum and you should be voting there.

And other things are wrong with your case too. Go back and reassess please.

I don't think you have done as much to refute 720 as you think you have. It certainly isn't obvious if I iso you and a2rudeboy together.

I'm reasonably certain that my vote wasn't really influenced by other people making cases. At this point I'd need to review because I don't remember that moment any more.

[Gamma Emerald]

Most of the wagons have been abs shite.
Seriously pooky, I really want chk to explain.

Then why are you voting so many

[Gamma Emerald]

Would you say the same thing about Titus? She did a 20 person reads list, too. I don't see you going as hard at her as you are at Iec.

Obviously my original statement about how valuable those lists are still stands, but Titus at least has been somewhat active in the thread, Iecerint popped in with a sparse bit of catch up and then posted that list.

I can't remember if I commented that my reading of Iecerint's catch up was that he seemed to spend a lot more time on reading than others were giving credit for.
I watched that catchup in real time and noticed that he was head down on the catchup and failing to notice my replies on material later than the catchup point. That implies a much higher degree of attention being spent than a quick read.

That’s an interesting point

[Gamma Emerald]

On the chk defense of IKS, it does look like trying to discount the entire wagon as a “troll wagon” when that’s not the truth.

[davesaz]

Following up on my Galron vote:
When I read his ISO up to that point it's mostly just general game commentary or questions about why people are reading him. I don't see any real follow through or significant interest in figuring out alignments via his posts. And I don't see much change in his posting after that vote. Given no meta nor time to look it up it's possible there is a playstyle factor I'm unaware of, but lacking that my read boils down to "not scumhunting".

[davesaz]

On the chk defense of IKS, it does look like trying to discount the entire wagon as a “troll wagon” when that’s not the truth.

I interpret it more of a wake up call to do something better with the time we have, not so much a defense.

[davesaz]

For the record I would not object to shredding IKS, but I agree with chk on making each shred count as much as we can.

[Gamma Emerald]

On the chk defense of IKS, it does look like trying to discount the entire wagon as a “troll wagon” when that’s not the truth.

I interpret it more of a wake up call to do something better with the time we have, not so much a defense.

Why is IKS not a good use of our time? When pressured they opted to start posting non-content rather than offer a defense, I think that’s more scum than town indicative.

[pisskop]

Mechanically its more scum indicative, but emotionally its a sign of [meta] in all its various shapes.

[pisskop]

Sometimes you get mad and troll. Maybe we need the Mafia Police to come by and look at his sordid behavior. Put him in mafia-jail.

[pisskop]

I think his behavior should be PLed, and I feel like its an intentional play. But im not convinced its a scum gambit

[TiphaineDeath]

I'm really sorry guys, my laptop just hard-crashed last night and I am posting from a back-up computer that I have very intermittent access to. There is no way I can have sufficient computer access to be able to play and I'm not going to have my new computer for at least a week. I think I need to request replacement. Hope ya'll have a good game.

[Starbuck]

Of folks who should be shredded today, I'm down to shred Galron or NPOM. If it comes down to it, I don't think IKS is a bad choice either, but I think he needs to speak for himself with a quickness.

I need to do a deeper dive on Looker, Lavender, Bambi, Walter, A50, Gamma, and Bright so I can get rid of all the null in my field of vision.

[Galron]

Following up on my Galron vote:
When I read his ISO up to that point it's mostly just general game commentary or questions about why people are reading him. I don't see any real follow through or significant interest in figuring out alignments via his posts. And I don't see much change in his posting after that vote. Given no meta nor time to look it up it's possible there is a playstyle factor I'm unaware of, but lacking that my read boils down to "not scumhunting".

Here's the thing, you throw out an accusation like you only see posts from me about general game commentary and why people are reading me (of course you qualify it with "to that point" whatever that point is), and people believe that. You leave out my early scum read of IKS, my push on Iecerint, which was just as much a push on IKS as it was on Iecerint, my push on Walter, etc. That's why it was important to me to point out that what a2rudeboy said about me telling nono to vote IKS did not happen -- the more times a person says it, the more it's reinforced in the reader's mind -- because people don't check facts. I'm lazy that way myself.

In addition, short posts don't equate to a lack of content. Sometimes people need to take a look at what's not being said.

[a2rudeboy]

I need to do a deeper dive on Looker, Lavender, Bambi, Walter, A50, Gamma, and Bright so I can get rid of all the null in my field of vision.

Have fun. Won't take long.

[NoPowerOverMe]

How did you go from townreading him to being conflicted?

Read the paragraph that starts "I'm conflicted about him" to get the answer to your question. Or, ask a more specific question if part of it isn't clear to you.

Or is it just because rude posted a case?

Rudeboy doesn't figure into it. I'm aware that Rudeboy has said that his only votes for today will be Galron or one other player (I forgot who), but I didn't otherwise have a sense of his thoughts. I looked at it in response to your question. I think it's facile. Someone else posted something else that I think is also kinda facile, can't remember who.

Starbuck has posted some stuff about Galron that jives with my POV.

More likely Galron is your scum buddy. I'm not buying your story.

[NoPowerOverMe]

I need to do a deeper dive on Looker, Lavender, Bambi, Walter, A50, Gamma, and Bright so I can get rid of all the null in my field of vision.

Have fun. Won't take long.

Quite a bit of red there me thinks.

[a2rudeboy]

I'm really sorry guys, my laptop just hard-crashed last night and I am posting from a back-up computer that I have very intermittent access to. There is no way I can have sufficient computer access to be able to play and I'm not going to have my new computer for at least a week. I think I need to request replacement. Hope ya'll have a good game.

I am almost prepared to lynch the spot than have someone come in, catch up, and get a read on them in a short period of time.

[a2rudeboy]

I'm really sorry guys, my laptop just hard-crashed last night and I am posting from a back-up computer that I have very intermittent access to. There is no way I can have sufficient computer access to be able to play and I'm not going to have my new computer for at least a week. I think I need to request replacement. Hope ya'll have a good game.

Any chance you can use your phone and/or just hang around till the end of D1?

[Starbuck]

I'm really sorry guys, my laptop just hard-crashed last night and I am posting from a back-up computer that I have very intermittent access to. There is no way I can have sufficient computer access to be able to play and I'm not going to have my new computer for at least a week. I think I need to request replacement. Hope ya'll have a good game.

I am almost prepared to lynch the spot than have someone come in, catch up, and get a read on them in a short period of time.

That's not a very pro-town position, especially on Day 1.

[Iecerint]

my push on Iecerint, which was just as much a push on IKS as it was on Iecerint

Huh? I'm reading this as about your posts about finding my reads "interesting"/"incredible." Are you talking about that, or something else?

[a2rudeboy]

I'm really sorry guys, my laptop just hard-crashed last night and I am posting from a back-up computer that I have very intermittent access to. There is no way I can have sufficient computer access to be able to play and I'm not going to have my new computer for at least a week. I think I need to request replacement. Hope ya'll have a good game.

I am almost prepared to lynch the spot than have someone come in, catch up, and get a read on them in a short period of time.

That's not a very pro-town position, especially on Day 1.

I've been working on two things all of D1:
1. Trying to suss out the assumption i had earlier
2. Getting rid of lurkers

At this point, I just want to get out of D1. All the discussions and arguments feel like circular logic, nothing much seems to be changing. Let's just get a few flips and go from there.

[davesaz]

In addition, short posts don't equate to a lack of content. Sometimes people need to take a look at what's not being said.

I agree that short vs. long isn't an intrinsic dividing line on content. Content or not is substantially about whether a post advances the game state in some way or not. A short post that shows your read or seeks information to form a read is content. A long post that offers no insight or information on how to read people in this game isn't.

I'm not sure how to interpret "what's not being said" in an online and asynchronous context like a forum. When in-person and you can see someone is present (not just physically but mentally) then silence can be interpreted, perhaps as agreement or no opinion. But in this format, silence can just as easily be interpreted as absence or not paying attention.

Linking back to the other parts of this post that I didn't quote, I saw what seemed to be a high ratio of short posts which didn't seem to advance the game state. You are correct to say that this is a generic statement. I started writing this post and took an interrupt so I'll have to come back to that. At this point it's likely been an hour so who knows how many new posts there might be.

[Galron]

In addition, short posts don't equate to a lack of content. Sometimes people need to take a look at what's not being said.

I agree that short vs. long isn't an intrinsic dividing line on content. Content or not is substantially about whether a post advances the game state in some way or not. A short post that shows your read or seeks information to form a read is content. A long post that offers no insight or information on how to read people in this game isn't.

I'm not sure how to interpret "what's not being said" in an online and asynchronous context like a forum. When in-person and you can see someone is present (not just physically but mentally) then silence can be interpreted, perhaps as agreement or no opinion. But in this format, silence can just as easily be interpreted as absence or not paying attention.

Linking back to the other parts of this post that I didn't quote, I saw what seemed to be a high ratio of short posts which didn't seem to advance the game state. You are correct to say that this is a generic statement. I started writing this post and took an interrupt so I'll have to come back to that. At this point it's likely been an hour so who knows how many new posts there might be.

Slow night apparently.

I just looked at my own ISO. I counted 5 posts that I would characterize as shitposts, not including a couple flubbed up typo posts, out of about 40 or 50. Every other post I made was made with a purpose. Point being, my process in advancing the town win condition exists even if you can't discern it. That's not a slight on you -- that's partially by design. I could be more transparent, but that's not the way I want to play. There's no need for me to post every thought that goes through my head.