Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[MariaR]

The main thing that was keeping me preoccupied is finally starting to become more stable so I can hopefully keep up with the pace more often yet, in my

checks

15 page catch up I can't say I had much an urge to comment on much and my reads haven't shifted. The thing that interests me the most talk wise is Aprils own reads. But that can wait until they're ready.

[zMuffinMan]

i've been meaning to ask since you called something "not TvT" earlier in the game

how do you decide that?

if you're so sure one is town (but you aren't sure who), then why can't both be town?

[zMuffinMan]

see, the only reason i'd personally suggest something might not be "TvT" is if it was based on

people outside the pair conversing

that made me think that way... like if the general reactions felt off for some reason

but it looks like that's not what you're saying, so...

[Secret Tunnel]

Regardless of what you think about the meta circles, at LEAST one person is probably confident meta townreading someone incorrectly, aka they are getting duped.

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

I don’t have much of an opinion on who is wrong. But notscience certainly has a point that there are too many townreads being floated around for them all to be correct. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure every slot has been reasonably townread this game by someone. This is not a desirable gamestate, in my opinion, and I think the meta townreads need to be rethunk.

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

The morph push is interesting and while I don’t agree with it, I don’t think it’s a bad thing for this gamestate. The worst thing it can do is cause more noise if we are actually doing an almost good enough job at forming the requisite town blocks (I say almost because, again, someone is wrong). I don’t think it is being done in bad faith, but I will be watching that very closely. I’m also very curious in Maria’s adamance about April/us being SvT.

-innocentvillager

[PlusJOYED]

Regardless of what you think about the meta circles, at LEAST one person is probably confident meta townreading someone incorrectly, aka they are getting duped.

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

I don’t have much of an opinion on who is wrong. But notscience certainly has a point that there are too many townreads being floated around for them all to be correct. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure every slot has been reasonably townread this game by someone. This is not a desirable gamestate, in my opinion, and I think the meta townreads need to be rethunk.

-innocentvillager

agreed. also i feel sort of left out

[morph the cat]

Regardless of what you think about the meta circles, at LEAST one person is probably confident meta townreading someone incorrectly, aka they are getting duped.

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

I don’t have much of an opinion on who is wrong. But notscience certainly has a point that there are too many townreads being floated around for them all to be correct. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure every slot has been reasonably townread this game by someone. This is not a desirable gamestate, in my opinion, and I think the meta townreads need to be rethunk.

-innocentvillager

agreed. also i feel sort of left out

We're town reading you outside of meta, dummyface.

[Secret Tunnel]

Yeah, Plus I think our main role is to kind of just tap on the glass dome from the outside and poke around. It’s a kind of strange game dynamic as either alignment that we just kind of have to make the best of.

I haven’t decided if it’s worth going into the meta myself to familiarize or not. The problem is it’s hard for me to determine which meta reads should be weighted seriously and which ones shouldn’t, especially when shouted with similar levels of confidence. I’m going to lean no, but I’m still kind of new at this kind of game.

-innocentvillager

[PlusJOYED]

fine. I feel like the kid at the drunken new years eve party on my birthday which I know pretty well
also your chapters don't work on mobile really at all

[morph the cat]

Regardless of what you think about the meta circles, at LEAST one person is probably confident meta townreading someone incorrectly, aka they are getting duped.

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

I don’t have much of an opinion on who is wrong. But notscience certainly has a point that there are too many townreads being floated around for them all to be correct. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure every slot has been reasonably townread this game by someone. This is not a desirable gamestate, in my opinion, and I think the meta townreads need to be rethunk.

-innocentvillager

To address this one specifically though, while I agree that the possibility of dupes day one is significant, my return to the site in 2020 has really proven to me that "Sometimes it really is just that easy".

Dancegame Anon II, was as simple as sorting by post count and eliminating from the bottom.

Newbie 2024 was the same.

Do you have a specific read of ours, or of either block's, really, that you think is particularly likely wrong?

[PlusJOYED]

Yeah, Plus I think our main role is to kind of just tap on the glass dome from the outside and poke around. It’s a kind of strange game dynamic as either alignment that we just kind of have to make the best of.

I haven’t decided if it’s worth going into the meta myself to familiarize or not. The problem is it’s hard for me to determine which meta reads should be weighted seriously and which ones shouldn’t, especially when shouted with similar levels of confidence. I’m going to lean no, but I’m still kind of new at this kind of game.

-innocentvillager

im not going to personally look at meta of 8 years of games but it will impact my thoughts if many people in the meta circle agree on an alignment of someone based on meta

[morph the cat]

fine. I feel like the kid at the drunken new years eve party on my birthday which I know pretty well
also your chapters don't work on mobile really at all

You know you can click the "quote" button to get the plaintext and then move that to whatever reader you want, right? Your apparently itty bity phone isn't going to make me change the way I format my chapters, given that the body of them is literally no effects applied whatsoever. It's the same as this text right here.

[Secret Tunnel]

To address this one specifically though, while I agree that the possibility of dupes day one is significant, my return to the site in 2020 has really proven to me that "Sometimes it really is just that easy".

Dancegame Anon II, was as simple as sorting by post count and eliminating from the bottom.

Newbie 2024 was the same.

Do you have a specific read of ours, or of either block's, really, that you think is particularly likely wrong?

I can definitely get behind the sentiment of this. Sometimes it really is just that easy, and paranoia about a solve that’s probably not too far off can obviously sometimes be detrimental, and I like you citing recent examples as a way to get into your mindset about this because I feel similarly about some of mine.

I do think it may be easier for you to not feel worry yet, having lots of meta reads and sync’d at times with your other half, to be more confident in them. It is not as easy for me to do the same, having only a couple meta reads of my own that I feel semi-okay about, and mostly just watching everyone else townread their friends. I have yet to see something like “I know town!X, and this isn’t it, so scumread” at this point in the game - it feels as though all those reads have moved on either to just being unfounded or scum subverting it well. I would expect that in this kind of game where familiars are meta reading each other well.

Re: specific people, that’s a good question that I need to think more about beyond just the strength of my own townreads. I think I’ll let you know if I come up with specific names.

[Secret Tunnel]

-innocentvillager ^

[Secret Tunnel]

Maybe we're being arrogant in seeing our ability to townbloc-build as something that scum-zmuffin might want to shut down, rather than infiltrate. It would have been so easy to infiltrate. Which is probably a strong argument for zmuffin-town playing this way around us.

This is interesting and potentially the best defense of muffin I have seen this game, if it’s true. I don’t doubt that you believe it but I do doubt that it’s necessarily that easy for scum!muffin to do so/would actively choose this approach over just taking free content for coming at you.

-innocentvillager

[420 Blaze It]

+ hasn't considered the mind boggling scenario where I'm not caring TOWN

Imagine that

[420 Blaze It]

-innocentvillager ^

you dropped an eye

dw i got you: ^

[Secret Tunnel]

The more townreads people have, naturally the more mind boggling it is that you are not caring town.

-innocentvillager

[zMuffinMan]

thinking 420 is town is what makes me so unsure of where scum is if one or both of {mariar, alisae} are town

i guess it seems like an easier solve for people who don't have him as town (ie seemingly everyone else in the game)

[Something_Smart]

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

With April, actually, I do think this, because in almost every game I've played with scum-him, I've caught him and he's gone on to win anyway. That's how he rolls.

But it's also a silly argument, because the whole point of meta is to use tells that you believe the person can't willingly manipulate.

[Secret Tunnel]

People want an easy solve D1. With so many townreads no one wants to narrow the PoE further by considering a zero content poster as town, so the most natural sort is scum not caring.

Unfortunately this is a lazy sort for town and a convenient sort for scum so it’s hard to tell who’s doing what.

And muffin, I can see where your uneasiness comes from and it’s interesting that you decided to not take the easy sort on Prism slot.

-innocentvillager

[Secret Tunnel]

Does everyone really think that their scum!familiars won’t do their damndest in this plist to subvert their scum meta, knowing that there are tight meta circles here with certain players having a good record of reading them?

With April, actually, I do think this, because in almost every game I've played with scum-him, I've caught him and he's gone on to win anyway. That's how he rolls.

But it's also a silly argument, because the whole point of meta is to use tells that you believe the person can't willingly manipulate.

I think this is kind of helpful to know. Im not attacking the idea of meta usage in general even knowing there might be some attempt to expand scumranges.

I guess what I’m saying is not all meta reads are created equal and if you truly believe it and justify it like this I would weight that a little higher.

-innocentvillager

[Something_Smart]

Like I said, he's got a good scumgame and it will probably be a few days before I have a confident read on him.

But yeah... if I say he's scum, and everyone else is saying he's town, you might want to listen to me

More likely though, he'll just kill me.

[Secret Tunnel]

Sure SS, I’m all for trusting confident reads like this from people who are using meta patiently and thoughtfully.

-innocentvillager

[420 Blaze It]

spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh is correct