Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Chara]

Can I ask you why you think it's Krazy over Tayl0r, first?

Also why were you so persuaded by the posts and not like, anything else before?

i'm not shooting for Chara, i'm shooting for the player i think is more likely scum than you. because you refuse to not be null and it's impossible for me to tell if you're apathetic town or scum who's fine to end it here.

pedit: okay, fair. i suppose it's unlikely for a scum Hectic to be Chara, i was just siezed by scum-Hectic fervor when i read you calling his earlygame Pooky push too-objective and then Hectic responded by casing Elements. and i feel more strongly about Hectic in this moment of fervor than other slots.

[Tayl0r Swift]

we lost a post somehow in between my last two

Prism i just had a bad thought, if Taylor is just

this

apathetic as town and then Hectic flips Chara and we lose the chance to get him. there's nothing that tells me he would have to be Chara over mafia and nothing stopping Taylor from being mafia but she's such a wall i'm nervous.

HURT: Hectic
1752 is so much.

??? Hectic is not Chara here, the entire point of Hectic scum is to bus for towncred and he literally dies immediately as Chara without getting to use it

and i am also not chara... for obvious reasons. and i only work as scum with hectic. ergo i am not scum

[Morning Tweet]

Why is Hectic more likely to be scum than Krazy

[Chara]

ignore those quotes, i thought Prism was asking me those questions before i realized they were to Morning.

[Hectic]

On the other hand, Krazy makes sense as scum with anyone who's been discussing alternative options for a launch today, or even apathetic scum who's accepted defeat.

just out of curiosity who is this (if not everyone)

Prism, Pooky, Tanner, Chara now off the top of my head

Apathetic or not caring would be Lavender

[Tayl0r Swift]

Can I ask you why you think it's Krazy over Tayl0r, first?

Also why were you so persuaded by the posts and not like, anything else before?

i'm not shooting for Chara, i'm shooting for the player i think is more likely scum than you. because you refuse to not be null and it's impossible for me to tell if you're apathetic town or scum who's fine to end it here.

pedit: okay, fair. i suppose it's unlikely for a scum Hectic to be Chara, i was just siezed by scum-Hectic fervor when i read you calling his earlygame Pooky push too-objective and then Hectic responded by casing Elements. and i feel more strongly about Hectic in this moment of fervor than other slots.

if i were scum fine to end it id concede. if i were scum trying to lurk it out: lol. if i were scum otherwise, id be putting up a fight and making some garbage up.

being engaged with a game is null, but being apathetic is town-indicative for me

[Prism]

Glad to see I've sparked some fire in you, Hectic! Welcome back for the night!

Reviewing redtea's meta for the 3rd/4th time I am once again unconvinced this is scum. I noted a difference in how fleshed out their reads were early in 1278 but this is pretty eh.

I took issue with Hectic's summation of redtea's slot here, particularly in the characterization of the replaceout (redtea was noticeably extremely behind on the game, and was still trying to get through the catboi/Pooky engagement that they had helped spark). I decided not to really post about it since the soft-defense/Suji stuff was valid, and the replaceout timing itself was literally true.

Looking at SIN, and then at other games though, it looks like this kind of defense is typical of redtea-town. Here are two (def Jackel) posts (def osuka, but thinks SvS theater) of redtea going very out of their way to work through and justify another player's thought process, in very similar ways.

The only game they flipped scum was in 2019, and as they note in SIN they really didn't do too hot. They basically fencesat that whole game minus a readlist with...one real read The amount of confidence they would have had this game as scum would be very impressive, given their experience with catboi playing extremely well in SIN. Buddying is plausible, but subsequently really going after catboi for leaving me out of his TRs would be very bold.

I really wish I could have asked them more on that catboi thing, though, since I remember them being fine with cat not TRing me at first.

This is my most recent review of the slot. A lot of this is new and I only cursory review the old-which is that redtea's confidence this game and early reads on me/catboi followed really cleanly from SIN, and they had good reason to be afraid of catboi after that game. Digging deeper into their meta, their last scumgame wasn't doing so hot. Buddying catboi at the start is a decent strategy but going aggressive on cat much later would be really brazen from red-scum here.

Also, this slot has no partner other than me/Lavender and maybe Tanner. As adamantly as you refuse to look into this, it's true.

[Prism]

1765 was to you Chara, meant as a followup to 1771 which got lost

[Chara]

Why exactly was redtea town, Prism? If you've already cased why, let me know. The meta means very little as that was 2 years ago. Also, the soft defence of Ele in 266

the way redtea jumps to attributing thought process to Elements that wasn't readily apparent in this post is what made me think it was not a partner interaction, actually. i don't think scum jumps in to speak for a partner being pressured in this way, usually.

but besides that i find it fairly possible Krazy is scum.

[Prism]

I absolutely still have questions for that slot that I'm annoyed I can't get an answer to, like how they were fine with cat not TRing me at first, and I'm still confused as to how they forgot about the Pooky wall in general

but I think I've solved this and will bet the game on it.

[Chara]

if i were scum fine to end it id concede. if i were scum trying to lurk it out: lol. if i were scum otherwise, id be putting up a fight and making some garbage up.

being engaged with a game is null, but being apathetic is town-indicative for me

i believe you and this is why i don't want to vote you. :<

[Chara]

Also why were you so persuaded by the posts and not like, anything else before?

no idea besides i had a very strong reaction to the post i cited when i voted Hectic.
but i also don't know what you mean by the anything else before.

[Prism]

Can I ask you why you think it's Krazy over Tayl0r, first?

What's the source of your confidence in my slot again?

Hmmm.... well I decently townread 50% of the game. Out of the rest, your slot has no good interactions with Elements.

In fact, if you ctrl-F elements in redtea's ISO, their only mentions of Elements are two separate defenses of him. 266 and 595. Neither are huge defenses, just kind of "give him the benefit of the doubt" kinda things.

I see absolutely no reason it isn't Krazy and I had like, tinfoil reads on Tayl0r

I think the meta you brought up is a fair point but probably not enough to make me change. Somebody pointed out it is 2 years old

This is really unfortunate since so much of my read comes from SIN and I can't just implant that game into your head, letting you follow along for a month real-time as it developed, watching as redtea made reads, engaged with others, but struggled with confidence, occasionally going conspiracy theory and occasionally being validated.

We might be destined to differ here.

[Prism]

Also why were you so persuaded by the posts and not like, anything else before?

no idea besides i had a very strong reaction to the post i cited when i voted Hectic.
but i also don't know what you mean by the anything else before.

As in I had really pushed Hectic Day 1 for being too confident in his Elements read for what it was.

It looks like I did actually mention the timing before in 862

Posts of me tackling the too confident thing include 672, 677, 854, 951, 1032. In some of those I mention the weird Morning spare, too.

[Hectic]

I don't know if I'm confbiased but Krazy's slot is very probable scum, and I would really hate to let him get away if he's Chara. Very possible Prism is scum mounting a last gasp attack to extend the game, and I really don't like him betting it on a perfect solve (which is just statistically very unlikely to be correct).

Like, I hate to talk about rep outs and all but no one else finds it extremely alarming that Suji reads ALL of day 1, and then makes not even a single read/comment on it? Day 1 was not short by any means, that's many hours of reading.

The fact she says nothing on it and replaces out means:
-She's scum and saw how dire the situation was for her after reading. Repped out.
-She's lied about reading all of day 1. No reason to lie if she's town.
-She's town who read all of day 1 but then suddenly found herself demotivated and repped out.

I find the first two scenarios a LOT more likely than the third.

[Prism]

I really didn't like Sujimichi replacing out Day 2, especially considering the games I looked at where he gave real-time questions/commentary AS he caught up as town rather than in one big block afterwards.

Then I realized he read Day 1 overnight, and therefore couldn't really do that. Whether he ever got around to reading the early part of today will remain a mystery until postgame

[Hectic]

I can see where Prism is coming from in the last post though. Prism, I've played Ele a lot, more than anyone else here possibly. We come from the same homesite and I historically have a very good rate of reading him. Naturally, I'll be confident about any read I get on him.

[Hectic]

*played with Ele

[Chara]

um. hm. i might not have given my due diligence due to believing i could read Hectic fairly well on my own.
but beeboy hadn't flipped scum yet, so the specific treatment of Hectic towards the slot didn't click until you repeated yourself/reminded me just now.
also i.... sometimes.... do not read every single word of your posts when they don't catch my interest.... because some of them are pretty long...... i apologize...............

...i don't have a good answer. that is on me.

[Prism]

Still strange to me that your confidence in him being too friendly to you=scum continued to increase more and more over the course of the day, even as nothing else really happened other than me pressing you on it. Still strange to me that you were fine quickly voting out beeboy who supposedly could be really obvtown at times with extremely limited interactions.

Very strange.

[Prism]

um. hm. i might not have given my due diligence due to believing i could read Hectic fairly well on my own.
but beeboy hadn't flipped scum yet, so the specific treatment of Hectic towards the slot didn't click until you repeated yourself/reminded me just now.
also i.... sometimes.... do not read every single word of your posts when they don't catch my interest.... because some of them are pretty long...... i apologize...............

...i don't have a good answer. that is on me.

LMAO

i love the honesty it's okay, i already admitted i slotted half your posts to the side for extended periods this game it's okay friend

[Hectic]

Still strange to me that your confidence in him being too friendly to you=scum continued to increase more and more over the course of the day, even as nothing else really happened other than me pressing you on it. Still strange to me that you were fine quickly voting out beeboy who supposedly could be really obvtown at times with extremely limited interactions.

Very strange.

My confidence on Ele only grew when he did other scummy things, like the interactions with Launchy, or the readslist he gave after stating he was lost.

beeboy obvtowned once in 4 or 5 games with him, and I've already clarified this.

[Chara]

I can see where Prism is coming from in the last post though. Prism, I've played Ele a lot, more than anyone else here possibly. We come from the same homesite and I historically have a very good rate of reading him. Naturally, I'll be confident about any read I get on him.

honestly, Hectic, it was Prism's use of the word "objective" with your Pooky push and then your pivot to Elements that gave me the alarm bells. it's exactly what i expect scum-you to do when told you're playing too objectively.

[Prism]

Well fortunately Hectic if Tayl0r flips town and Krazy flips scum you shouldn't have too much to worry about here.

As for the readslist/lost, it was a good point to your credit.

[Hectic]

I can see where Prism is coming from in the last post though. Prism, I've played Ele a lot, more than anyone else here possibly. We come from the same homesite and I historically have a very good rate of reading him. Naturally, I'll be confident about any read I get on him.

honestly, Hectic, it was Prism's use of the word "objective" with your Pooky push and then your pivot to Elements that gave me the alarm bells. it's exactly what i expect scum-you to do when told you're playing too objectively.

Okay, I'll go read that post to see what's going on there lol