Mini Normal 2159 | Cinder Block Mafia | Game Over!

[ItalianoVD]

I think we really need to look at this again. Is RCE scummier than Gamma?

[WaltertheDunce10]

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

[GeorgeBailey]

Votecount 3.2

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Nosferatu(7), ItalianoVD(11), callforjudgement(30)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Looker(1), geraintm(10)

callforjudgement(2)

~ Frogsterking(34), Gamma Emerald(8)


Not Voting (2): RCEnigma(2), WaltertheDunce10(4)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-07 19:26:08)

[Frogsterking]

I think we really need to look at this again. Is RCE scummier than Gamma?

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

Votecount 3.2

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Nosferatu(7), ItalianoVD(11), callforjudgement(30)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Looker(1), geraintm(10)

callforjudgement(2)

~ Frogsterking(34), Gamma Emerald(8)


Not Voting (2): RCEnigma(2), WaltertheDunce10(4)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-07 19:26:08)

UNVOTE: CFJ

There are 11 days to go, I'm faded, this upcoming week I will be staying in Michigan, the land of legal dispensaries, and there are methods of scum hunting which are actually useful we have not applied yet.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I think we really need to look at this again. Is RCE scummier than Gamma?

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

Votecount 3.2

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Nosferatu(7), ItalianoVD(11), callforjudgement(30)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Looker(1), geraintm(10)

callforjudgement(2)

~ Frogsterking(34), Gamma Emerald(8)
What would those be?


Not Voting (2): RCEnigma(2), WaltertheDunce10(4)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-07 19:26:08)

UNVOTE: CFJ

There are 11 days to go, I'm faded, this upcoming week I will be staying in Michigan, the land of legal dispensaries, and there are methods of scum hunting which are actually useful we have not applied yet.

[Looker]

• Will RCE get to live through this day despite yesterday's wagons?

---

Spoiler:

VOTE: CFJ
I am no longer asking. Answer my question. You are obstructing my ability to confirm a town slot as I see it. How does knowing what the FN result PM looks like help scum? I can make conclusions already but I want to be certain.

In addition,

Italiano

, do you have any modifier to your role? You don’t have to claim what it is, but knowing yes or no will help me determine whether I can piece together the situation.

The literal answer to your question is "no".

Please,

please

stop rolefishing. I didn't have a scumread on you before now, but I'm getting a pretty strong scumread now.

I have a question of my own: did you receive the same PM I did? (If you aren't sure at this point, then you didn't; if you did, it will be very obvious given the information I've disclosed so far.) This answer is highly important, because it will help me figure out why you are apparently acting in such a highly anti-town way.

But you didn't consider RCE's fakeclaim rolefishing? Or him asking who was in a hood?

---

• Who received Italiano's Friendly Neighbor letter?
  • Hopefully, it's someone unscummy.

[Frogsterking]

I think we really need to look at this again. Is RCE scummier than Gamma?

hmm that is a good point.
Ill unvote for now.
VOTE: unvote

Votecount 3.2

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Nosferatu(7), ItalianoVD(11), callforjudgement(30)

RCEnigma(2)

~ Looker(1), geraintm(10)

callforjudgement(2)

~ Frogsterking(34), Gamma Emerald(8)
What would those be?


Not Voting (2): RCEnigma(2), WaltertheDunce10(4)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-07 19:26:08)

UNVOTE: CFJ

There are 11 days to go, I'm faded, this upcoming week I will be staying in Michigan, the land of legal dispensaries, and there are methods of scum hunting which are actually useful we have not applied yet.

In roughly but not strictly chronological order:

1. Meta for behavior of both alignments for each living player, to establish a baseline from which tells can be drawn. Must be done ASAP.
2. Self-reported psychometric analysis for each living player, placing us on the continuum of each category of OCEAN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_ ... ity_traits If anyone is not familiar with the big five traits I can provide clarification for each one.
3. Self-reported answers to: a) How often we lie each day, b) Who we tend to lie to (strangers, acquaintances, family, etc.), c) Our lifetime experience playing mafia or related "social deduction" games.
4. Our self-reported beliefs and motivations during several key moments in the game, decided by our PR, in reverse chronological order.
5. Meta for behavior that appears in only one alignment for each player, or "signs" or "tells" of an alignment.
6. Analysis of the reads of every dead player.
7. Analysis of the interactions of every dead player.
8. Overall analysis of the choice of the night kill.
9. Analysis of

all

bandwagons that have occured (aka "VCA".)

Executing this plan will require all players to comply with answering the questions in steps 2, 3, and 4, and the pr to decide which moments are considered key for step 4. This means that even if a player disagrees with this approach or is choosing to lurk, they will still be able to comply with the plan in only a single post, as long as they answer the questions in 2, 3 and 4.

In order to finish each step with the appropriate depth and breadth to be effective and avoid overwhelming influence from maf in the given time frame (11 days), completing steps 1 and 5-9 will require at least four different players to participate. I will volunteer to participate.

There is also more meta information available on my playstyle I will volunteer: on epicmafia.com, after registering and searching for an account named AngryFrog, under "Recent Games" you will be able to skim read how I approach both alignments during every stage of the game, albeit a different medium of mafia, it will be more helpful than my history here which is sparse.

In addition, I will post an annotated list of references tomorrow morning or evening, which provide some evidence and/or instruction and/or inspiration on these steps I've suggested.

[callforjudgement]

But you didn't consider RCE's fakeclaim rolefishing? Or him asking who was in a hood?

It's about what information the question is likely to reveal to town and to scum.

Knowing who is in a neighbourhood is only very marginally useful information to scum, especially if there's a neighbourhood revealed already.
The fakeclaim seems to have been calculated to avoid town power roles being revealed (note that there

was

a town PT Cop, and she didn't counterclaim).

Meanwhile, Gamma's question was, if answered, inevitably going to reveal the existence of a particular town power role, which is why I tried so hard to dissuade him from pushing me on it (especially as enough townies already had the information that there was no real reason for it to become public yet); and the stated reason for pushing the question is very hard to believe. (I'm waiting on Gamma to explain, in case there's an innocent explanation.)

[WaltertheDunce10]

Testing

[WaltertheDunce10]

Testing

testing

[WaltertheDunce10]

K, don't know why my quote up there has no words but k.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ooh, an idea that could explain Gamma's actions…

@

Gamma

: Did you receive

Italiano's

Friendly Neighbour PM Night 2? That would explain your actions here; you would naturally assume that I'd fakeclaimed to receive Italiano's PM for some reason, and would be hoping to catch me in a contradiction (in this scenario, you'd be lying about the "confirms a player as town" reason for pressuring me in order to reduce the chance I caught on). The question in this scenario would be intended as a subtle way to check for a second Friendly Neighbour (with you forgetting that Nosferatu would be able to counterclaim a "no" answer and thus it would reveal the existence of a second Friendly Neighbour in the case that I was town).

I received no Friendly Neighbor action. I do however have reason to think multiple FNs exist.

[callforjudgement]

Can you justify why you pressed me so hard to answer your question, and out the existence of a second Friendly Neighbour?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I figure through my process I should also become clearly town. There’s a method to my madness here.

[callforjudgement]

A lot of people, including me, are scumreading you for it.

You should explain the thought process in question right now, if doing so wouldn't out additional information useful for scum. Even if it would, you should explain to the extent you can do it without outing any more power roles.

[callforjudgement]

(Or, well, my read at the moment is "maybe there's a good explanation for this, but I can't think of one".)

[Gamma Emerald]

I tracked someone to you last night. It was not Italiano. As such I’m figuring it was someone else who is also FN.
Italiano, if you’re comfortable, I’d like if you could specify your full role, because I think the puzzle will snap into place with that information.

FYI I’m not revealing anything I wouldn’t reveal at the end of this process anyways.

[callforjudgement]

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

[WaltertheDunce10]

I tracked someone to you last night. It was not Italiano. As such I’m figuring it was someone else who is also FN.
Italiano, if you’re comfortable, I’d like if you could specify your full role, because I think the puzzle will snap into place with that information.

FYI I’m not revealing anything I wouldn’t reveal at the end of this process anyways.

But Italiano already shared his full role?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Why doe you need italiano to confirm his role when it is unrelated to tracking?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Because my working theory means the other FN can’t do what you propose.

@Walter where did Italiano announce he full claimed?

[WaltertheDunce10]

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Because my working theory means the other FN can’t do what you propose.

@Walter where did Italiano announce he full claimed?

Not answering this.
Will answer why you are scum in morning.

[ItalianoVD]

• Will RCE get to live through this day despite yesterday's wagons?

He should at least be able to defend himself, don’t you think?

---

Spoiler:

VOTE: CFJ
I am no longer asking. Answer my question. You are obstructing my ability to confirm a town slot as I see it. How does knowing what the FN result PM looks like help scum? I can make conclusions already but I want to be certain.

In addition,

Italiano

, do you have any modifier to your role? You don’t have to claim what it is, but knowing yes or no will help me determine whether I can piece together the situation.

The literal answer to your question is "no".

Please,

please

stop rolefishing. I didn't have a scumread on you before now, but I'm getting a pretty strong scumread now.

I have a question of my own: did you receive the same PM I did? (If you aren't sure at this point, then you didn't; if you did, it will be very obvious given the information I've disclosed so far.) This answer is highly important, because it will help me figure out why you are apparently acting in such a highly anti-town way.

But you didn't consider RCE's fakeclaim rolefishing? Or him asking who was in a hood?

But he didn’t ask who was in a hood, Taylor did.

In roughly but not strictly chronological order:

1. Meta for behavior of both alignments for each living player, to establish a baseline from which tells can be drawn. Must be done ASAP.
2. Self-reported psychometric analysis for each living player, placing us on the continuum of each category of OCEAN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_ ... ity_traits If anyone is not familiar with the big five traits I can provide clarification for each one.
3. Self-reported answers to: a) How often we lie each day, b) Who we tend to lie to (strangers, acquaintances, family, etc.), c) Our lifetime experience playing mafia or related "social deduction" games.
4. Our self-reported beliefs and motivations during several key moments in the game, decided by our PR, in reverse chronological order.
5. Meta for behavior that appears in only one alignment for each player, or "signs" or "tells" of an alignment.
6. Analysis of the reads of every dead player.
7. Analysis of the interactions of every dead player.
8. Overall analysis of the choice of the night kill.
9. Analysis of

all

bandwagons that have occured (aka "VCA".)

Executing this plan will require all players to comply with answering the questions in steps 2, 3, and 4, and the pr to decide which moments are considered key for step 4. This means that even if a player disagrees with this approach or is choosing to lurk, they will still be able to comply with the plan in only a single post, as long as they answer the questions in 2, 3 and 4.

In order to finish each step with the appropriate depth and breadth to be effective and avoid overwhelming influence from maf in the given time frame (11 days), completing steps 1 and 5-9 will require at least four different players to participate. I will volunteer to participate.

There is also more meta information available on my playstyle I will volunteer: on epicmafia.com, after registering and searching for an account named AngryFrog, under "Recent Games" you will be able to skim read how I approach both alignments during every stage of the game, albeit a different medium of mafia, it will be more helpful than my history here which is sparse.

In addition, I will post an annotated list of references tomorrow morning or evening, which provide some evidence and/or instruction and/or inspiration on these steps I've suggested.

Sure, I’ll indulge you. We have plenty of time.

I tracked someone to you last night.

Oh did you now?

It was not Italiano.

Really

As such I’m figuring it was someone else who is also FN.

I have a theory.

Italiano, if you’re comfortable, I’d like if you could specify your full role, because I think the puzzle will snap into place with that information.

I’ve already done so, but why is your “information” dependent on knowing this?

FYI I’m not revealing anything I wouldn’t reveal at the end of this process anyways.

Getting your story straight so it’s believable?

Why would that prompt you to ask the questions you did, though? Tracking a player lets you see their target, but it doesn't tell you about other players with the same target; what made you reject the possibility that Italiano and someone else both targeted me?

Also, if you did decide that a non-Italiano Friendly Neighbour had targeted me, why push me to confirm that in thread? If they die N3 the information doesn't matter, and if they don't die N3 they'll be able to confirm themself to someone else. (Besides, they presumably confirmed themself to someone N1.)

Because my working theory means the other FN can’t do what you propose.

Can’t wait to hear it.

[ItalianoVD]

I don’t know why I’m up so stinking early but I am.

[Frogsterking]

K, don't know why my quote up there has no words but k.

It showed up in the middle.