In post 2566, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I'm not totally sold on Caster-town. There's something that feels out of balance in his game behavior. He's so salty about getting pushed. But he's pretty gleeful about piling on to other players being pressured.
Survivalistic at its core. I wish I could say that's scummy but that's NAI. It's Caster's tone in how he gets upset and why that's scummy.
I know you hated Caster's blacklist comment and called one of his posts AtE. Could you go into more detail about what it is about Caster's tone that you find scummy?
Sure. There's survivalistic which is don't lynch me please and then there's being a cancer to the game. The first thinks hard and acknowledges that survivalism is part of the game. They are unlikely to be flippant with their vote, like Caster is. Caster gets upset and rows whrn he doesn't get what he wants, making the gsme less enjoyable. It's a tactic scum use repeatedly and it's just unfun to play against.
Why isn't Caster whining about Moon Csncer? Because he doesn't actually want moon cancer lynched.
In post 2898, Servant Beast wrote:I kind of agree with them. I'm more of a go with the flow player and i hardly get an impression from you. Most of my thoughts on you are about other players talking about you rather than you actually talking.
You're more than welcome to interact with me to firm that up any time. And there is a significant difference between being unmemorable and being toneless.
I don't know that they have much choice, given the state of the game right now. I suppose there's something to be said for being stubbornly independent-minded, rather than sheeping me, but...
Beast by play. Beast just doesn't have original scumhunting in his body. Cancer by mechanics. I wasn't really SRing Cancer until he claimed scum (the whole not claiming thing). Caster's just the toxic scum who nobody wants to lynch bc he'll make the game hell so he gets extra benefit of the doubt.
Actually, how do you square scumreading beast for being unoriginal and her "incredibly bad" vote on caster, while also scumreading caster?
Reading from D2 start and this is a horrible read. Berserker vs Moon is a drag and I got little from it. Berserker may be town for their insistence on this guilty which I have seen no evidence of yet other than their confidence. Moon has an ego like no other and I do not know if it is a strategy they would employ as scum. I will continue reading and see if they claimed or said something else that can lead to a read.
It took 200 posts to get something that can actually be given some weight and with real content. So thanks Assassin. If you weren't already a Green flip I would have given you huge townpoints for breaking the spiral this game was going down and posting an actual case. I can take a look at Caster though it will not be right now and perhaps look at some wagonomics.
I read slowly especially when I have to keep contextualizing who is talking because of the similar names and pictures, so that is all I can do at the moment. At least it's a start. More will come.
Okay, that means we're not going to get an extension. Time's running out. I know not everyone make be okay with this but I think the last bit I posted toward Saber is enough for me to be okay voting there - I really don't how he can be so insistent on a beast scumread for her sheeping the vote on Caster while he's also scumreading caster and his posting today was skeevy.
I'm giving up on the chance to interact in a relatively still pool with Moon Cancer about my tinfoil essay.
I don't want this to change the direction of the elim today. I just want it in the game thread for future reference if we reach a point where town's not coming together well and we wind up with a whole buncha townreads left after somewhat low hanging fruit scumreads flip town. Monstrous post incoming.
This is where I explain the narrative that has been running through my mind for the couple of days.
As the game stands, we have an artificial townbloc (No duh, I know. Bear with me). We argue and pursue things in the game thread, but unless Assassin is leading the charge, it's kinda low-pressure. If he does point in a particular direction then it's rabid dogs all up in here. We do have some players who are also focal points in shaping direction, to a degree.
There's Berserker, who strongly disagrees with the scumread on deck at times, comes in, and makes at least one serious wall post about why they're town and it's a terrible player to elim, and then goes away apparently with the assumption that her will is going to be done. I think she's probably reading here, and it bugs me that she never responds to posts reaching out to her, e.g., Avenger signing their vote over to her (with some exceptions), and me asking her about her beast read more than once. I'm not scumreading her for this, but I do see some scum value to playing that way.
We have Avenger, who has at least some reads that diverge from Assassin (for instance on Rider and me), and who jauntily carries a first lieutenant's swagger stick. He's probably going to be a major factor in where things go at some point.
There's Foreigner 2.0 who by nature of inheriting a universally townread slot that was somewhat ineffective in setting direction - e.g., in terms of swaying where the master buff went. New-Foreigner could become another nexus in future-town, but right now they're really not contributing much.
And we have Moon Cancer, who still keeps many of their thoughts obscured. When they disagree with something, it often feels like they think the person who has the stance or makes the statement they disagree with is displaying incompetence, shallow thinking, etc.
There's also me, but I don't count myself, not only because I know my alignment, but also because while I'm fairly well townread afaik, some of you could be holding scumreads in your hip pocket :igmeoy: But, even if I'm right about being a close-enough-to-consensus townread, I haven't been a strong influence on the game since Day 1 started. It would take a lot of effort to get back to that level, and it's effort I don't have and probably don't need.
Rider and maybe Caster could also step up later in the game if a vacuum need filled.
If we were a town trying to come together right now so that we could get shit done, Moon Cancer's play could be a lot more harmful to that happening, or it could help us get going in a better direction if they're right. As well as the disagreements that sometimes put downs, there's some discrediting as well.
And then there's the attitude. Maybe Moon Cancer saw the inevitability that an IC in this game, unless by nature a consensus player, was going to delay the onset of natural town cohesion and is sort of sitting things out while that phase of the game works itself out. (I don't think what we needed for the ic role was a consensus player btw. If I had, I'd have made a run at the buff, myself)
Me being a consensus player, though, leads to sometimes noticing and focusing on people who do stuff that messes with town cohesion. It's not the disagreeing reads. Not at all. We could have identical reads, and I would still be focusing on the effect on cohesion.
At some point, town is going to have to actually work at getting to cohesiveness.
The thing is, I have seen Moon Cancer's kind of play from players who are great at gamesolving and actually have the degree of charisma to round up the town stragglers and get the votes where the player wants them.
And I have seen this kind of play (in many cases, from the same players) who use it to keep town off balance and off the trail, usually until it's too late, by subtly encouraging the bad ideas, doing little bits here and there to encourage small disagreements to turn into full-blown deadlocks, and help keep the game full of noise even if they're not directly contributing to the bulk of the noise.
In this town, with an artificially formed cohesion, I can't tell for sure which they're doing (or if I'm imagining some of it) or what the ultimate effect will be.
So this is me sharing my nightmare, on the off chance I'm not here on Day 3. Look at the dynamics of this town's transition into something more normal, when that eventually happens.
Long may Assassin Reign!
Some sample posts. Not every post that fits or nearly fits the patterns, just some examples that I think are illustrative of what I mean. Some of this is probably way too harsh and uncharitable.
Spoiler:
425 - roundabout fuck off. I townread this when I saw it
432 - elim strategy. This looks like town mindset and would actually make the game harder for scum if we wind up at the end with no good elim-bait candidates. Would also make it harder for town, though, who would have to contend with rising paranoia about who's left. Hypothetical scum-MC wouldn't stand out as much in a game where other strong and consensus townread players are still alive. It's the dual utility that stands out.
493 - Rider read has been very persistent. I just simply don't like this. A player of MC's apparent caliber should't be making this mistake. This feels like a go-long miselim. THIS IS MY PET ISSUE DEALWITHIT
897 was a decent precursor to how they've played the game. especially the "giving control" part
981 example of going after players to make them commit to reads. another utility as both aligments
1343 - this is a huge undermining of shielder town case. They spent a ton of posts tearing down Berserker's case, but then don't want to talk to shielder. They leave all this observation of scummy things but don't engage the player, and in fact shuts them down. It was like there was no desire at all to test or further develop the read.
1346 Another "I think the opposite of you" on Caster
1395 - An "I don't care" regarding Avenger getting a read. This is interesting in that Avenger is sort of first lieutenant in the game these two day phases.
1422 - Compare to level of cooperation with Assassin
1426 - direct engagement with Archer, compared to shutting down shielder.
1510 More cooperation with Assassin and a huge difference in tone, even in interactions with other supposed townreads
1560 This post to Rider is the most forthcoming of posts to their scumreads that I've seen to this point in the game. Could the difference be based on the relative ease/difficulty of eliming different players here?
Tearing apart bad arguments, even on your scumreads is arguably a good thing to do. There's just so damn much of it that goes on in Moon Caster's interactions.
I feel like I'm at least in part picking at a playstyle. The patterns have certainly been consistent in this game. I feel bad, in some ways, that I've latched onto a player that fits my scum-mastermind narrative so well.
This is not meant to derail or in any way affect what we do on Day 2. It's a sort of last will and testament - I want this idea in the mix going forward, whether I've found a real candidate for the villian or not. I'm posting it now in the event I'm not here to carry it, myself when The Lostbelt town needs to come together and be a functional town.
Consider my vote symbolically on Saber, but I want that dedicated time from Ruler before I plonk down. At least drive bys from everybody (Berserker, Foreigner, Moon Cancer, etc) would be nice, too.
With 12 players alive, it will take 7 votes to eliminate a player.
Saber (4): Lancer, Beast, Assassin, Alter Ego
Moon Cancer (3): Berserker, Saber, Caster
Lancer (2): Foreigner, Rider
Phase Page Usage: 27/60
Day two will end in: (expired on 2020-09-27 22:00:00)
Prodding Servant Berserker and Servant Foreigner. Day will not end until both have checked in, and if a replacement is needed, deadline will be frozen, and 24 hours added to the end of it as poer my rules set.
Have retired for good; Life is too busy to have time or energy for mafia. It was fun~
