Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because he was scumreading you and you didn't want him to push you today

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

how much have you played with scum hectic and scum mt?

I haven't played a lot with MT and I can't remember off the top of my head if Hectic has ever been scum in one of the games I've played with him.

[Isis]

Spare Votecount 2.4

Hectic--------------------------

(1) Hectic

Chara---------------------------

(1) CantLynchAPuppy

Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

Morning Tweet----------------

Tayl0r Swift -------------------

Lavender ----------------------

Krazy--------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------

Not sparing:

- (8) Chara, Prism, PookyTheMagicalBear, Morning Tweet, Tayl0r Swift, Lavender, Krazy, Tanner

Fight Votecount 2.4

Hectic--------------------------

(1) Chara

Chara---------------------------

Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

Morning Tweet----------------

Tayl0r Swift -------------------

(1) Prism

Lavender ----------------------

Krazy--------------------------

(3) Morning Tweet, Hectic, CantLynchAPuppy

Tanner -------------------------

(2) Krazy, Tayl0r Swift

CantLynchAPuppy-------------

Not Fighting:

- (3) PookyTheMagicalBear, Lavender, Tanner

Nahdia held their hands against their monitor in apparent anguish.
"Oh no, Tanner is rolling like a pool ball! But there's not pool! That's not right, folks!"
They looked around for someone to prompt next. The shyest individual in the most ostentatious costume stuck out to Nahdia.
"Tayl0r Swift! Rescue him!"
The empty riverbed was shaped like a halfpipe, and Tanner kept rolling up one end, only to build up enough height that he could fall again and roll up the other end. His body was so slick he never slowed down.
Tayl0r Swift carefully stepped down to the trough of the riverbed, and watched for the next time Tanner rolled down. But he rolled down so fast, that she felt unable to stop him, and instead took a quick step aside and bent her unexpectedly mobile body to get out of the way.
A switch somewhere on her costume clicked, and began to play the "Mew Mew" theme song, and some of the monsters began clapping, assuming that Tayl0r was not dodging but dancing, as an anime diva. Tayl0r Swift started to release a croaking squeal in astonishment, but shyly covered her mouth.
She just barely again noticed Tanner rolling by again, about to hit her tail, and she turned and spun to get her tail out of the way, finding herself with much more balance than usual when she finished the move. The clapping grew louder, and Tayl0r Swift bit her lip as she pondered whether perhaps she liked this. Maybe she could be not a singer, but a dancer, one day?
She continued to dance out of the way each time Tanner passed by, growing fond of the attention. But she became so interested in continuing that she began giving Tanner helpful kicks to keep his momentum up so that he wouldn't stop rolling even as the riverbed grew drier. Since Tayl0r Swift wasn't very good at retracting her claws yet, this was rather painful for Tanner.

---

It takes six to make a decision. The deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-03 12:00:24) after applying an extension of five days and ten hours

[Morning Tweet]

I am a bit skeptical of MT's progression on Ele and redtea, but I'm still inclined to slot them as town. They don't really get anything from buddying me/catboi early, and coming to Tayl0r's defense seems really strange from scum-MT here unless the team is exactly those two. I also agree with catboi that their analysis in their earlygame readwall was solid, and I do think MT's reaction about my criticism of Hectic was solid. Maybe MT is capitalizing on a wrong Hectic read here but ? iuno

I kind of doubt I'd do that because I'd be aware it looks like I'm trying to use it as a shield. But since I'm town I'm just telling it like it is regardless of how it looks.

But maybe if I get into a scumgame, I'd evolve past that and try to emulate what I'd do as --- WHY do I keep making these pointless WIFOMy self meta posts? I'm going to try and cut that out now

Pooky, I'm curious as to some stances from you. You've been cautious about the Krazy wagon and seem to be conflicted-heart says yes, mind says no, here are some bad things about Taylor. Bits and pieces of your other reads might be found elsewhere but a collection/overview of where you're at with the game overall.

You haven't voted, so I'm wondering if that is all trying to figure out Krazy v. Taylor, or if there's some other reason you're waiting/other party you're looking at.

I liked redtea at beginning of the day - I've been susp of his slot from D1 - however the lack of resistance to the wagon felt off to me.

After I re-read catboi's ISO I think the NK would fit more with redtea being town than scum and taylor being scum so now I'm leaning the other way. I don't really see why redtea-scum shoots catboi when catboi is one of the few people who are town-reading him and then are more lock-town players in the game who pushed elements harder.

I have a massive amount of respect for MT/Hectic and their insistence that redtea is the clear and obv choice is making my conviction waver about what I think about redtea being scum.

Uhh if you're seeing things that make you doubt redtea!scum, don't let me override that. I've been not super into the game, certainly not as much as I'd like to be.

Agree with Hectic having generally great reads though. Me though? No mate!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean you were super confident about ele flipping scum and were spot on the money about that so I kinda assign you a lot of cred

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like here's some of what catboi was saying about redtea-

Strongly feel that redtea is town

review of redtea shows he moves his vote very little as town, true of his recent game and our older games so I'm not as worried about that.

redtea I still think is town although I wish he'd be more proactive.

town: tanner, prism, chara, redtea

I don't see why redtea-scum would kill catboi given how much catboi thinks redtea is town?

the kill makes more sense with taylor being baddie.

[Morning Tweet]

i mean you were super confident about ele flipping scum and were spot on the money about that so I kinda assign you a lot of cred

Eh. Sometimes townreading a bunch of people and voting whoever is left works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think it's putting the ball more in scum's court than in my own, because if scum plays really good I'm just gonna townread them falsely

(((Okay I guess that's kind of the point of the game but still)))

What I'm saying is I get lucky at times. It's not like I could exactly explain why I thought that was going to be a scumflip. I guess beeboy felt different -- but then again, he was dealing with stuff at the time. And Elements didn't do him many favours.

I would credit that one much more to, say, Puppy, who had it right on Elements nice and early. I also reviewed a bit and saw Hectic had some nice points (Something like Elements altering his playstyle to overcompensate for how he played in his last game or something)

[Prism]

I miss my muse, I want blood but I don't want to vote Krazy, Taylor essentially refuses to work with me, and I can't even troll catboi. h e l p

[Morning Tweet]

Like here's some of what catboi was saying about redtea-

Strongly feel that redtea is town

review of redtea shows he moves his vote very little as town, true of his recent game and our older games so I'm not as worried about that.

redtea I still think is town although I wish he'd be more proactive.

town: tanner, prism, chara, redtea

I don't see why redtea-scum would kill catboi given how much catboi thinks redtea is town?

the kill makes more sense with taylor being baddie.

Fair fair fair

If redtea is Chara I feel that would matter somewhat less. Still -- I was expecting Prism to die, not catboi! There must have been a purpose, unless maybe I was reading the game poorly. Catboi was very consensused town, I suppose. But yeah you do get the feeling they go somewhere else

I suppose.... if Redtea is scum, their partner would have had much more agency in the kill, since redtea replaced during the night phase. They might not have been thinking too much about it and just went with the most obvtown player they saw.

But that would somewhat imply a tayl0r / lavender partner who isn't super invested. And of course catboi scumread tayl0r hard

>-> i just wish we were past this day. this is becoming a whole ordeal, isnt it?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if redtea is chara he still wouldn't eliminate catboi because catboi being alive is one more person advocating for his survival today and also mis-elim-bait on D3 after redtea is revealed as chara.

[Prism]

I investigated the night kill a bit and think it's minorly +town for the slot, but I'm really a lot more convinced around their play and how they interacted with me/catboi from the getgo.

They struggled with confidence as town in SIN and watched catboi have a very strong performance, probably the town MVP except for the accidental scumvig from another slot. They immediately gave more confident TRs on both me/catboi that were natural given the results of SIN. Buddying catboi is a plausible reaction strategy, but going after him and really taking him to task for not having me in his townbloc later seems to run counter to that whole plan.

This isn't even getting into more nuanced meta, like them not giving reads

at all

in their single scumgame from over a year ago (again, the confidence this game given that is impressive) or that the type of explaining Elements' thinking for him is something they do as town too.

[Morning Tweet]

That scum game was crazy different i will give u that. If it were more recent I might even join based on that alone

Wouldn't watching catboi have a strong performance in SIN validate the possiblity of scum!redtea killing him? Eh, I don't think the kill was decided by redtea even if they are scum, probably. Your other points are pretty logical too.

Mmmm I'm quite conflicted now. I hope you're happy!! (^ω^)

[Prism]

It totally validates the kill, but it's not even a thought as to whether they chose it. They flaked and got replaced by Hopkirk within 10 minutes of the end of Day 1, before eventually having Sujimichi replace them instead. Confident TR->going after him because someone is missing from cat's townbloc (which redtea was in!) says to me that they got a pang of paranoia about the slot, rather than that they were trying to buddy it.

[Morning Tweet]

That is even earlier than I remember -- yeah no question there really.

HURT: Isis

Hm hm HMMMM

[Tayl0r Swift]

Like here's some of what catboi was saying about redtea-

Strongly feel that redtea is town

review of redtea shows he moves his vote very little as town, true of his recent game and our older games so I'm not as worried about that.

redtea I still think is town although I wish he'd be more proactive.

town: tanner, prism, chara, redtea

I don't see why redtea-scum would kill catboi given how much catboi thinks redtea is town?

the kill makes more sense with taylor being baddie.

Fair fair fair

If redtea is Chara I feel that would matter somewhat less. Still -- I was expecting Prism to die, not catboi! There must have been a purpose, unless maybe I was reading the game poorly. Catboi was very consensused town, I suppose. But yeah you do get the feeling they go somewhere else

I suppose.... if Redtea is scum, their partner would have had much more agency in the kill, since redtea replaced during the night phase. They might not have been thinking too much about it and just went with the most obvtown player they saw.

But that would somewhat imply a tayl0r / lavender partner who isn't super invested. And of course catboi scumread tayl0r hard

>-> i just wish we were past this day. this is becoming a whole ordeal, isnt it?

is this true? isnt the reverse more true, that i scumread catboi?

hmm... id really expect morning to reciprocate my firm townread here, but instead she is getting more and more insistent on pushing me as pressure grows on her.

[Prism]

You got roasted by multiple players for not being able to justify your read progression on him, which was scum-> gut town -> gut ???

768 and 789 catboi clearly scumreads you and explains why, 924 you're second up in his list after beeboy. 968 he agrees with beeboy that your flop is bad and votes you.

That's the last he says about you before him and I slapfight, he scumreads me, and subsequently dies. The worst you said about him at the end of the day is that you "still had misgivings" in 857 and had "something you don't like" in 861 after I question you about it. He is begrudgingly added to your 6 person PoE.

Ie. Yeah, he scumread you and actually pushed/voted you. Maybe you'll have more promise taking the above in conjunction with your "Why didn't Prism die?" question that you followed up zero on.

[Prism]

You've tried literally every strategy in the book to dodge this vote EXCEPT trying to explain your reads to the locktown person voting you. Apathy, testing the waters on other players, testing the waters on me, outright shaming me for the vote.

Bewildering. I'm out of patience.

[Prism]

Like, as you've pointed out previously, this game doesn't and should not revolve around me, but this strategy of posting "bad vote lol" or one-off questions instead of just sitting down and explaining plainly where you're coming from is bizarre.

[Morning Tweet]

Fair fair fair

If redtea is Chara I feel that would matter somewhat less. Still -- I was expecting Prism to die, not catboi! There must have been a purpose, unless maybe I was reading the game poorly. Catboi was very consensused town, I suppose. But yeah you do get the feeling they go somewhere else

I suppose.... if Redtea is scum, their partner would have had much more agency in the kill, since redtea replaced during the night phase. They might not have been thinking too much about it and just went with the most obvtown player they saw.

But that would somewhat imply a tayl0r / lavender partner who isn't super invested. And of course catboi scumread tayl0r hard

>-> i just wish we were past this day. this is becoming a whole ordeal, isnt it?

is this true? isnt the reverse more true, that i scumread catboi?

hmm... id really expect morning to reciprocate my firm townread here, but instead she is getting more and more insistent on pushing me as pressure grows on her.

I'm not really thinking about your read on catboi, I'm thinking about his reads of you and redtea. He had redtea as strong town and you as strong scum

I'm confused what your point is about your scumread on catboi.

Do tell me, why do you expect town!Morning to reciprocate a townread on you, but scum!Morning to not? I'm being more open-minded. I feel like Prism probably deserves that if he's gonna go and put all this effort in (and Krazy deserves it too ofc if he's town).

Really, characterizing it as bending to pressure on

me

seems a bit.. inaccurate. I'm not considering swapping off of Krazy for fear of being exiled.

[Prism]

I guess the sentence about you is something and I should be happy instead of tilting off the face of the earth

[Tayl0r Swift]

For me, I'm trying to strike a balance between interrogating your reads without being a nuisance asking to be towncased. The way you're describing this-setting you up/not actually interested in what you are-makes me think that you expect me to have fully interrogated you further if I really found it sketchy. I immediately stated exactly what my issue was, and instead of correcting it, being like "yeah w/e", or expounding on it you played the offended/indignant card. This bothered me - I think it's really clear that the concrete reasons you listed are ??? applied to me - and has made me question if the offense is genuine. This interests me a lot more than a quotewall of why the reads I've given are town.

There's a scum motivation early to AtE to drop a pressure from your bad reads, but the only reason I see why you would double down on this as scum is feeling that you have to for appearances (Vote on Tayl0r if I'm setting you up would be pretty ???)

Can you lay out more explicitly why my approach here is not town/how exactly my approach is not trying to figure out your alignment?

feels like you're trying to ding me no matter what I say when I was trying to explain a gutread. and when I'm trying to explain myself over and over to someone I think is town and keep getting shot down it means I'm probably just wrong about that person

It's also just bizarre that I've made my stance clear, asked no questions beyond a rhetorical one hoping you'd understand why I was/am skeptical and we could leave it at that, only for you to get more defensive+accusatory in a spiraling cycle. I'm not setting you up by doing this. Like maybe I'm intentionally baiting you into being defensive but I have repeatedly tried to disagree and call it a day.

It doesn't feel like the kind of thing you go "okay agree to disagree" on unless you're just shelving it to use as ammo later down the line

[Prism]

HYPE

[Tayl0r Swift]

so heres where im at. there are too many townreads, and the scumreads are weak. town has no clear direction which suggests all the directions town is going are fine with scum. except maybe theres consistent momentum towards me, which suggests that maybe theres town pushing it. the only person really consistently pushing me is prism, despite what prism would have us believe.

what are the odds that prism is actually scum here? worth considering?

[Tayl0r Swift]

its really odd that prism has made no effort to engage with my current thoughts or reads, and is still just waiting for me to explain things i said i didnt have a good explanation for 40 pages ago.

[Prism]

naw I'm definitely the only person pressing you consistently, maybe pooky recently too? absolutely 90% me

p-edit: ???????? you have got to be kidding