Mini Theme 2165: MafiaSunny (Complete!)

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm good for tn or DrP, but will stick with DrP until someone fills that slot and does things

[Ythan]

hi i'm not letting a lurker live through day 2, not happening

been burned by it too many times

Then vote tn obviously.

[Ythan]

Also meta is bullshit Reck.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tn5421

I've changed my mind. We can deal with Dr P after he is replaced. Tn is definitely scum here.

Curious what has caused this mindset specifically wrt tn?

This deserves a longer answer, so I'll circle back on this later today when I have a chance to sit down at a computer

Word.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tn5421

I've changed my mind. We can deal with Dr P after he is replaced. Tn is definitely scum here.

Curious what has caused this mindset specifically wrt tn?

This deserves a longer answer, so I'll circle back on this later today when I have a chance to sit down at a computer

Word.

Ok, I'm here and I'll give a little rundown of things that strike me as weird about TN.

FIRST:

In summary: I don't like that people dogpiled chkdsk for shit that VP also did and got excused for.

This post way back on D1 struck me as a very weird misreading. There was zero correlation between what chkflip was doing and me "being an asshole"...which is what is being referenced here. It felt like an odd reason to oppose the chkflip wagon at that time. Now that we know the flip, I'm more suspicious that TN was searching for reasons to oppose a bad wagon.

SECOND:

I mean, this town turbolynched someone for not being part of the old boy's club, so here we are, 2 town dead and possessing barely more information than we did during RVS.

This start to D2 again struck me as a fundamental misreading of the game. Chkflip was not yeeted for not being part of the "old boy's club". In fact, there are no posts of substance between what TN said above and this...so where the heck did that notion come from? TN was pressed on this later and didn't have a good explanation for the statement.

The wagon shaming is something that could be seen as scummy. I mean, it's good to pressure people on the wagon after a town flip, but this is a directionless, "SEE I TOLD YOU THE WAGON WAS BAD" post that doesn't even fit with what TN said before. It's just weird.

Note that when Haschel presses this point, TN demurs giving an actual answer and offers a joke instead:

Pour one out for the newb Chkflip, voted out entirely for being newb-town only *checks notes* 9 years and 10 months after they registered for MafiaScum.

*pours out an entire bottle of goldschlager*

Not to mention the lack of responsibility for anything he takes in his original post shitting on the wagon:

I furthermore feel like I'm not really being interacted with at all and this is really unsettling to me.

Like, what? You're barely posting in the game and have questioned no one. It's a bullshit thing to say for someone who has 6 years on the site.

THIRD:

The entire amount of scumhunting TN does D2 after being so annoyed with how fast D1 went is: "haschel hammer = bad"

i don't think there's any way town!haschel hammers town like he did and then has such a weak explanation

That's it.

I 100% get being annoyed with the speed of D1! I was absolutely in that boat...hence why I came in today saying I wanted to drag this day out. I needed more time to feel out a lot of people. I can't say I'm super confident in my reads yet, but I sure as shit have more nuanced opinions than "hammer bad." TN is putting in no work today, and I'd expect town to put in work after failing to gain much information D1. Poking and prodding a wide variety of people, trying to sift out answers and harden up some instinctual reads. There's none of that here and that's an alarm bell to me.

FOURTH:

This vote after not posting for 3 days completely reeks.

im game

VOTE: Noraa

It was a growing wagon, and I'm pretty sure TN had not said a single word to Noraa before that vote. He said his scum read was haschel! I mean, how am I supposed to read a parked garbage vote switched to the most popular wagon at the time with zero reasoning?


When pressured over this, we again receive:

i have absolutely no incentive to go to any sort of effort to solve the game

ill just rely on the old boys squad to do it, as expected

WHAT IS THE OLD BOYS SQUAD AND WHO ARE THE MEMBERS?

lol, this is such a dumb statement to make. I don't even get where it is coming from.

Then of course, he votes Dr. P as that wagon gains popularity. Again no reason. Again no commitment to any prior scum reads. If TN is town in this situation, it's absurd play. I think there are some people buying into this schtick of "he wouldn't do that as scum, it's too crazy!". But I just finished a game as scum where we benefited mightily by the town writing off our scummiest teammate for the same reasoning.
----

Now, could I be wrong about all this? Sure. Maybe TN is telling the truth and he's just super disengaged because he's playing some video game or whatever. That's probably NAI either way. But what i can firmly say is that when TN does grace us with his presence, it's completely garbage. And, the above are far better reasons to yeet than simple lurking into oblivion. I say we give Dr. P time to either respond or be replaced, and if it's the latter then TN is the very clear choice today without a doubt.

[VP Baltar]

I've got to say, a lot of this was gut bad feelings about TN, but after going through their iso... I feel even more convinced.

I'm trying to make sure this isnt confirmation bias, but I really struggled to find anything redeeming at all in TN's iso. Open to hearing counterpoints.

[D3f3nd3r]

Replacing DoctorPepper

[xRECKONERx]

Also meta is bullshit Reck.

at no point have i used meta so suck my ass

[xRECKONERx]

vpb's post deserves more attention, coming soon

[tn5421]

I never play like this as scum, actually. For those of you that aren't brainwashed, feel free to look through the games I've been in.

[Ythan]

Didn't you claim to have disengaged from this game? That makes your meta irrelevant. In addition to, you know,

[tn5421]

i tryhard as scum

[xRECKONERx]

I never play like this as scum, actually. For those of you that aren't brainwashed, feel free to look through the games I've been in.

i have zero interest in meta so if you have a nonmeta argument i will listen

[tn5421]

What rational scum goes out of their way to be aggressive, combative, and unliked in a game about social manipulation?

[Ythan]

Me, many times.

No one said either of us is rational.

[tn5421]

Yes, but ask yourself.

Am I really going this far to meta bomb future games, or do I genuinely not give a shit if I survive so long as town wins?

[xRECKONERx]

okay so your only argument is more self meta

cool

VOTE: tn5421

[tn5421]

you apparently don't know me as well as you think

[tn5421]

Apparently you're willing to let a hard lurk slide in comparison, so you apparently feel strongly about this, but your reasoning on my push is "lol he uses meta" and "lol more selfmeta"

[tn5421]

Don't hammer me yet, though. I'm building a post.

[Ythan]

You keep talking about Doc lurking but you did also dodge an underway replacement to tell us you had lost interest in the game. It's not until that brought more heat that you then started participating again in response.

[tn5421]

I'm officially opening applications for the VP town block. Anyone admitted will survive until the end as CONFIRMED TOWN.

TO APPLY:

1) Do stuff VP finds obvtown.
2) Laugh as scum flail from being PoE'd into oblivion.

Who is submitting applications?

This is actually pretty terrifyingly not-town and I'm not sure how I brushed it off the first time through. I'm sure I don't need to explain how a forced town bloc can ruin games. Props to UT for not accepting these shenanigans.

Do arbitrary townblocs ever contribute anything of meaning? I see so many people open with them and I want to mock the living daylights of them for how silly it is but I’ve never actually paid attention to their effects on the game

In my experience they're usually started by scum. But more recently I've seen them started far too early by town as well. It's not enough on it's own to case a guy.


I would also like to point out that brighteningskies has been seen doing many of the same newb-tells that chkflip did.

@tn

yeah I was being a bit snarky to VPB but I also think he’s demonstrating that he’s willing to put real thought into his townbloc, rather than just take people because they feed his ego

I'm not sure if I responded to this the first time arouund, but at the point of the game this post was in, I hadn't seen enough personally. And honestly I'm not sure if I have by the time this post will be made. That's why I'm re-readiing after all. I want to say he hasn't demonstrated that he's serious about building a town-bloc and winning the game, however.

@tn

is there anyone in particular on the chkflip wagon you take issue with?

Ythan and Gamma Emeralds jumps on concerned me. The hydra's would concern me too if they didn't flip already. I still feel that your hammer was the worst of the lot, but I can concede that there may be town reasoning for it, namely chkflip's claim that they got good reads and then not sharing the selfsame reads.

I mean, this town turbo

yeeted

someone for not being part of the old boy's club, so here we are, 2 town dead and possessing barely more information than we did during RVS.

...

For somebody bitching about how short yesterday was you sure seem to be committed to not reading it.

At this point I've read it twice and have drawn all the conclusions I'm going to be able to without more hard data points to go on IE flips. The "old boys club" comment was meant to be inflammatory but didn't end up panning out how I meant it to.

if you think im just trying to indicate that im here without doing anything why not put your vote where your mouth is and hit me with that 1v1?

Is that at me?

This was for AGar but you're welcome to apply, too.
I'm also going back and making damn sure I've answered every question that has been posed to me so we can create content and get started on solving things.

Yeah see that's the kind of low-effort shit I would expect from scum. Like anyone could have very easily gone "Shit, we're getting perilously close to a hammer w/o a lot of voices chiming in," and simply unvoted. Leaving your vote parked is *also* saying "I am completely fine with this day ending early and no discussion cropping up."

Also trying to frame Chkflip's departure as "he wasn't part of the old boys club" is wildly inaccurate - he posted in a manner that was entirely inflammatory and pretty much asking to eat a yeet. I disagree with giving him that on the fact that that's a helluva bet if you're scum, and I disagree with all of the speed, but it wasn't "yeet the outsider." Especially considering those you are presumably classing as the "old boys club" don't even command half the player list or enough to run a yeet by themselves.

P-Edit: Because I have higher priorities of who I want to yeet than you. But you'd have to do more than ctrl+f'ing your name to understand that.

As I have stated before, there is one major flaw with the early logic in this post; that being that I never voted for chkflip and did not ever strongly suspect them to be scum.

The "old boys club" comment was meant to cause some controversy, and it most certainly did that.

I couldn't have unvoted chk because I didn't vote him in the first place.

I literally wasn't talking about you in reference to unvoting chk, but go off!

Literally everything else in your response was directed to me, so I, naturally, assumed the whole post was directed to me. Even on a re-read it seems that the whole post was directed at me, so I won't apologize for it.

I mean, this town turbo

yeeted

someone for not being part of the old boy's club, so here we are, 2 town dead and possessing barely more information than we did during RVS.

i don't really follow this tbh...in what way do you read this as an "old boys club" powerfucking someone just for being "new" (which....check chkflip's join date)

i dislike some of the actions around the wagon but to wave it all off as being some clique thing seems wrong?

also...how do you know it was

town

turboyeeting someone?
like... that's my theory. sure. are you agreeing with me that the wagon was all or mostly town driven?

you haven't stated either way why you believe it to be town-driven/not town driven, so this assumption seems...telling?

I happen to agree with your theory that most scum were not on the wagon, due to the speed at which it assembled. It simply happened too fast for cautious scum to decide whether or not they wanted to be on the wagon, as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't necessarily prevent one scum from acting opportunistically.

Persistently and consistently mischaracterizing yesterday imo. My answer may be colored because i just read through mostly interactions involving him before catching up to your post I responded to but I feel pretty confident about it still looking back. He isn't near a hammer is he I'm gonna park my vote there I think.

Okay, so did I mischaracterize other than the 'old boys club' which I have addressed already in this post? I'm not exactly re-reading my own posts, so feel free to quote @ me with source.

There are legit 3 people in this game who the mod has posted more than. Let that sink in.

Non-low key garbage contribution squad right here:

AGar
Gamma Emerald
brighteningskies
DoctorPepper
tn5421
Ythan

Annie Edison was part of that pool of “posted less than the mod”, which makes me curious why someone opted for that kill.

It may not have explicitly been due to it being "a hydra" and more due to "who the hydra heads are". Last I recall, notsci is above average and tbh I don't even remember who the other head is. Could very well be a fearkill that doubles as framing the 'old boys club'/'old guard' players who are known to dislike hydra.

his play was newb-town
he was yeeted for being newb-town
thus it is a valid interpretation to state he was yeeted for not being part of the old boys club of old and angry mafia players

It’s honestly funny how wrong this is, I have only been on site for like 4 years, with like only half of that being time with active participation, and I managed to know chkflip was old guard
Though I ALSO understand this because of the fiasco with the coldheartedking account

I can accept when I'm just wrong,

and it seems I was here

. I had never heard of chkflip before and wrongly assumed them to be nub based on their play.

Yeah see that's the kind of low-effort shit I would expect from scum. Like anyone could have very easily gone "Shit, we're getting perilously close to a hammer w/o a lot of voices chiming in," and simply unvoted. Leaving your vote parked is *also* saying "I am completely fine with this day ending early and no discussion cropping up."

Also trying to frame Chkflip's departure as "he wasn't part of the old boys club" is wildly inaccurate - he posted in a manner that was entirely inflammatory and pretty much asking to eat a yeet. I disagree with giving him that on the fact that that's a helluva bet if you're scum, and I disagree with all of the speed, but it wasn't "yeet the outsider." Especially considering those you are presumably classing as the "old boys club" don't even command half the player list or enough to run a yeet by themselves.

P-Edit: Because I have higher priorities of who I want to yeet than you. But you'd have to do more than ctrl+f'ing your name to understand that.

I think you’re demanding too much of tn. tn had no way to anticipate someone deciding to suddenly hammer the wagon with 0 ceremony to it, the table we have imo should very very rarely if ever have that happen. I’ve also seen people get upset at Y-1 voters who didn’t announce it despite the VC being on the same fucking page. My guess would be they thought everyone was sane enough to read the VC and have enough counting skill to know the would be dropping the hammer.

Yes, this was quite the unpleasant surprise to wake up to. I was ready to draft a post and everything and the thread was just locked.

Haschel, if you had a one-shot big right now, who would you elim?

Ythan or tn. Actually leaning tn right now because Ythan made a few posts I saw in my skim that looked good but I need to reread everything posted since I went to sleep last night.

Just looked at Haschel's ISO.. so much saying "this is bad" without actually saying why anything is bad, many questions on other people to get them to simply elaborate without actually asking real questions.
Haschel would you please elaborate on why you thought ckflip was scum?

To the first point, that's called scumhunting. To the second, I have no problem answering but before I do is there literally anybody in the thread who doesn't already understand that? I get people don't agree with my premises but I have been very clear about what they were.

In what world is calling things "bad" without providing explanation scumhunting?

I have to say I didn't expect it of this playerlist in particular.

You just mean you didn't expect the speed of the D1 yeet?

Side question, what's your read on Reckoner, tn?

Yes, I most certainly did not expect a yeet until 2 real days left on deadline, at the very least.
I'm not confident enough to state that Reckoner is town, but I do still think he is town.

Let's talk about how Nora said there's two scum for a second.

I'm not sure scum make a mistake this dumb. That could just be my underlying assumptions being wrong again, though.

but nora's push on me was so fucking weak dude

it gives me flashbacks to that post chk made that literally half the game read and said "yeah okay that's an absolutely insane post I'll vote this"

:-/

At least there's time for wagon resistance to form this time instead of Haschel slam dunking another speed-yeet.

that to me is just the fucking worst

"IIOA is why reck is scum"
"ok show me where i did IIOA"
"ahhh you got me you didnt really"

like it's just the scummiest fucking backpedal. idfk

I think it's reasonable that noraaa didn't realize your "iioa" post was specifically requested by a majority of the game when they started their push, seeing as how they replaced in at the start of day 2 and weren't here for it starting.

i have absolutely no incentive to go to any sort of effort to solve the game

ill just rely on the old boys squad to do it, as expected

I am now filled with the fury of 1000 sunnys. it's time to bring the ruckus and make shit happpen, fam

I think tn5421 might just be a townie in hot water that would much rather I die than them which I suppose I can understand. My vote will still be going on them unless they explain their vote on me(after I make sure this isn't the hammer and stuff)

VOTE: tn5421

That return was very conveniently right after the prod which gives me slight lurker vibes. First thing u do upon return is drop a vote on the biggest wagon, mine and you put me at E-1 and didn't announce it. I might've just found a scum.

This is hot garbage and you should rethink your intent. After D1 nobody is rushing to hammer anybody.

i have absolutely no incentive to go to any sort of effort to solve the game

ill just rely on the old boys squad to do it, as expected

tn you saying you won’t even scumhunt a bit? smh my head

I'm better at townhunting than scumhunting in any case. My scumread accuracy is pretty dodo.

Half of Saturday has passed and Dr. Pepper still isn't back from his extremely long vla....

I've found tn more suspicious than Dr. Pepper so far but I'm down for either as long as town doesn't have a no lim

Deadline is like a week from now, you think a no lim is a serious possibility?

Who do you prefer and why: tn or drP?

Definitely Tn in this point in time.
Getting prodded then returning right afterwards to put me at E-1 without announcing and then disappearing again.
that's all pretty scummy behavior

Dang we have a week?! I thought days were like ... only 7 days. ig its prolly the newbie setup is different and I didn't read stuff carefully

Okay, now do you have a reason that isn't OMGUS?

hi i'm not letting a lurker live through day 2, not happening

been burned by it too many times

Then vote tn obviously.

You're welcome to make a case at any point.

@VP Baltar

This post way back on D1 struck me as a very weird misreading. There was zero correlation between what chkflip was doing and me "being an asshole"...which is what is being referenced here. It felt like an odd reason to oppose the chkflip wagon at that time. Now that we know the flip, I'm more suspicious that TN was searching for reasons to oppose a bad wagon.

You're the one trying to coorelate an unrelated comment "vp is less of an asshole than many" with related content "vp got excused for stuff chkdisk is getting run up for". But please, be my guest.

This start to D2 again struck me as a fundamental misreading of the game. Chkflip was not yeeted for not being part of the "old boy's club". In fact, there are no posts of substance between what TN said above and this...so where the heck did that notion come from? TN was pressed on this later and didn't have a good explanation for the statement.

The wagon shaming is something that could be seen as scummy. I mean, it's good to pressure people on the wagon after a town flip, but this is a directionless, "SEE I TOLD YOU THE WAGON WAS BAD" post that doesn't even fit with what TN said before. It's just weird.

If the earlier part of this post is not good enough, you will have to pose the question again, as I think I've addressed the one point adequately.

Not to mention the lack of responsibility for anything he takes in his original post shitting on the wagon:
Like, what? You're barely posting in the game and have questioned no one. It's a bullshit thing to say for someone who has 6 years on the site.

This is an interesting mischaracterization of my intent. I ought not answer concerns if nobody addresses me. It's been made plainly obvious that if I post otherwise people twist my words to fit their own ends, to my detriment. Such as what you're doing now.

The entire amount of scumhunting TN does D2 after being so annoyed with how fast D1 went is: "haschel hammer = bad"

I'll wait to comment on this more seriously based on your reaction to this post.

I 100% get being annoyed with the speed of D1! I was absolutely in that boat...hence why I came in today saying I wanted to drag this day out. I needed more time to feel out a lot of people. I can't say I'm super confident in my reads yet, but I sure as shit have more nuanced opinions than "hammer bad." TN is putting in no work today, and I'd expect town to put in work after failing to gain much information D1. Poking and prodding a wide variety of people, trying to sift out answers and harden up some instinctual reads. There's none of that here and that's an alarm bell to me.

But is that really true, or is that just your interpretation of my play? Why are you not also sus of Ythan?

I am absurd.

[tn5421]

It's been a while since I have played mafia regularly, so for a few days I forgot I was even alive in a game and therefore needed to check on it.

[tn5421]

townie
reckoner, gamma emerald, untrod tripod

slight town - null
brighteningskies, DoctorPepper (being replaced?), Ythan

leanscum
agar, haschel cedricson, vp baltar

probscum
noraa

and yes, im aware that my reads aren't great, but i should at least put them on the table since I am at risk of being yeeted.

[VP Baltar]

Lol you realize you're voting one of your null-slight town reads and were just arguing they'd make a good yeet today, right?