Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[April Ludgate]

townblocked mafia a bunch of defense lawyers for no reason so I don't see the point

Are you mafia and I’m giving you defense lawyers? I town read my town block over the course of 100 pages, it’s not from nothing.

townblock to me insinuates that everyone in that block should townread each other rather than being a cluster of one persons townreads, im not down for that

Townblocks are inherently awful, it's been a proven fact in most cases. However, April/FL has always been a fan of them and poking the subject at hand is...off to say the least.

(We can go into why townblocks are bad but just take note of the reads itself)

I town block for gamestate reasons, tbh.

I’m always looking to be wrong in town blocks. But strengthening those connection threads prove valuable over time.

I did a Day 1 town block with Formerfish-Sakura Hana-Myself once. That ended up being the final 3 in the game, where we voted FFscum successfully.

[April Ludgate]

@Maria - Morph is noted as possible scum with Alisae or there’s a possibility they’ve been scumTMI’ing town Alisae.

Not sure which I think is more likely atm, but I believe Alisae’s the right play to go moving forward, as much as I’d like to play with a town Alisae, I don’t think that’s the world we’re living in.

Oh don't worry I understand. Me and Bee have been talking and my meta townread on Alisae isn't enough to stall a day phase over when Bee isn't fully townreading them and over half the thread wants them gone.

Regardless of what Alisae is it's clearly that they're the best Day 1 flip based on information alone.

This is well put.

[PlusJOYED]

what im getting at is that i don't want to be shoved into a townblock with people i don't TR (rem mainly) and I don't want scum to get accidentally shoved into a townblock by mistake either and let them have greater control over wagons. That seems like a bad idea

[Remilia Scarlet]

Want to talk? I'm done fighting gricks until next weekend.

I probably will after I catch up here

[PlusJOYED]

for example, take a hypothetical scenario april. Say you have a townblock of 4 people (i think yours is me, april, remi and 1 other i can't remember). Let's say one of us is scum, and we get to a scenario where 3 wagons are on the table for the day based on common reads. Now lets also say 3 of those wagon options are town and 1 is scum. If your scum in a townblock, it becomes a lot easier to shift the wagon so your scumbuddy doesn't get hit by influencing the townblock your in to vote a certain way or sheep another wagon, and its harder for the scum to get caught because of confbias in the townblock. Doesn't that seem disadvantageous to give scum the extra influencing power?

[PlusJOYED]

*2 of those wagon options oops math

[PlusJOYED]

im mainly saying because i scumlean remi btw april

[Remilia Scarlet]

I definitely like Alisae's indignance here. That is pretty much exactly what I would expect from town-Alisae.

I don't really see indignant. It's more someone says "You are doing X" and Alisae says "No I don't think I am doing that" or "I don't do that when scum" 2826, 2834, 2897

I just am not seeing anything that screams "only a town player would flail like this" and I don't really feel like "I don't do X as scum" is something that's ever going to get me in a comfortable spot with someone. I have enough time giving credence to meta arguments in general, much less when the person is going to make arguments to survive irrespective of alignment.

[Remilia Scarlet]

im mainly saying because i scumlean remi btw april

because i'm "nervous" right?

lol

[midwaybear]

@Plus, what if his reads are right?
I was also thinking that Alisae was good for info, but I can’t remember why anymore.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I definitely like Alisae's indignance here. That is pretty much exactly what I would expect from town-Alisae.

Considering 2832, 2835:

If you don't know Alisae's scumgame how do you know that being indignant is a unique property of Alisae's towngame in particular?

[PlusJOYED]

@Plus, what if his reads are right?
I was also thinking that Alisae was good for info, but I can’t remember why anymore.

then that's a small town benefit but I don't think it outweighs the potential benefits for a scum in a townblock

[PlusJOYED]

@Plus, what if his reads are right?
I was also thinking that Alisae was good for info, but I can’t remember why anymore.

i mean it's not perfect for into but they are more capable of giving info than 420 has shown to be

[morph the cat]

@Maria - Morph is noted as possible scum with Alisae or there’s a possibility they’ve been scumTMI’ing town Alisae.

Not sure which I think is more likely atm, but I believe Alisae’s the right play to go moving forward, as much as I’d like to play with a town Alisae, I don’t think that’s the world we’re living in.

Oh don't worry I understand. Me and Bee have been talking and my meta townread on Alisae isn't enough to stall a day phase over when Bee isn't fully townreading them and over half the thread wants them gone.

Regardless of what Alisae is it's clearly that they're the best Day 1 flip based on information alone.

This reply is about 50 times better than the reply you made to me. Which is ok. Mine was pent-up low level snark. I talked with Cabd last night about whether putting a vote on you guys last night would be a good or bad thing. We might have gotten some interaction with beeboy, though probably at the expense of more noise in the thread than we currently feel like dealing with.

We felt that if you were real-life seriously strapped for time, your hydraswitch might happen so you have additional brain cells and time to devote to the game.

Beeboy's made what? 4 posts? He definitely didn't come in and do what I would interpret as helping busy-Mariar keep up with the game.

Given your history playing recently with Cabd, I feel like it might go better if he had time to be in-thread right now, but that will probably happen in another hour or two. So what can you and I do to see better into each others' understanding of the game?

[April Ludgate]

for example, take a hypothetical scenario april. Say you have a townblock of 4 people (i think yours is me, april, remi and 1 other i can't remember). Let's say one of us is scum, and we get to a scenario where 3 wagons are on the table for the day based on common reads. Now lets also say 3 of those wagon options are town and 1 is scum. If your scum in a townblock, it becomes a lot easier to shift the wagon so your scumbuddy doesn't get hit by influencing the townblock your in to vote a certain way or sheep another wagon, and its harder for the scum to get caught because of confbias in the townblock. Doesn't that seem disadvantageous to give scum the extra influencing power?

The scum in the town block is extremely obvious if you can stick with the town block to figure out if it's all town or not.

Also, just because I town read the town block, doesn't mean we have to agree with each other in terms of reads, we should all actively try to have individual mindsets.

[April Ludgate]

I definitely like Alisae's indignance here. That is pretty much exactly what I would expect from town-Alisae.

I don't really see indignant. It's more someone says "You are doing X" and Alisae says "No I don't think I am doing that" or "I don't do that when scum" 2826, 2834, 2897

I just am not seeing anything that screams "only a town player would flail like this" and I don't really feel like "I don't do X as scum" is something that's ever going to get me in a comfortable spot with someone. I have enough time giving credence to meta arguments in general, much less when the person is going to make arguments to survive irrespective of alignment.

This is what it turned into, it actually, for me at least, came out earlier. The timing of Alisae's posts onto me right when momentum was in a pivotal spot, which then got blocked, made it so an incredibly likely scenario is AlisaeScum was taking advantage of townBulge coming after me the way they were, and attempted to turn the momentum onto me, however, Bulge and I ended talking through it. Alisae then changed their vote to try to get momentum out of the way, then setup a Plus vs 420 scenario, and I doubled down onto Alisae.

They have been completely trying a deflection tactic, and attempting to slide away. They also don't have any real defense of their slot, so they have to play the self meta-discredit game, which is also scum indicative.

[Something_Smart]

If you don't know Alisae's scumgame how do you know that being indignant is a unique property of Alisae's towngame in particular?

Well, I think it's how e would react as town because it's a pretty sensible way for town to react, meta notwithstanding, and knowing Alisae's personality me dropping em down for a bad reason seems like something that would annoy them.

If you're asking why it's not a property of eir scumgame, I never said it wasn't, because I don't know if e's capable of faking that.

[April Ludgate]

I definitely like Alisae's indignance here. That is pretty much exactly what I would expect from town-Alisae.

Considering 2832, 2835:

If you don't know Alisae's scumgame how do you know that being indignant is a unique property of Alisae's towngame in particular?

So many people have taken strong stances, and Alisae was forced to take specific actions which is insanely good for info on a slot that has high scum equity, and little actual analysis, which is an awesome Day 1 end.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm all for discrediting my own meta as a means of reading me but the way he goes about it in such a meta-heavy playerlist strikes me as odd.

I'm really having trouble grokking what you're trying to say here. That i'm deliberately subverting my meta?

Also can you reorganize that this into something that goes by likeliness to be scum? Some of the slots you comment on don't seem like they should be where they are (zmuffin in particular). Hard to tell in groups 4, 5, 6 where you're actually comfortable voting (and +j as a MUST TOWN at the bottom threw off my assumption that these were in order)

What's your beef w/ Maid Cafe in particular it seems like you're giving them a higher requirement to sort themselves into town ("would vote there today") than you are on 420 ("probably unsortable" - i am implying you wouldn't vote there today. feel free to correct that).

[April Ludgate]

@SS - I do believe Scum Alisae would act like it 100%, whether or not they are capable of faking it, they will fake like they are capable of faking it, if that makes sense.

[Something_Smart]

Have you played with scum-Alisae before?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Well, I think it's how e would react as town because it's a pretty sensible way for town to react, meta notwithstanding, and knowing Alisae's personality me dropping em down for a bad reason seems like something that would annoy them.

If you're asking why it's not a property of eir scumgame, I never said it wasn't, because I don't know if e's capable of faking that.

I don't feel like you're describing anything that's alignment indicative in that I think it's just "the thing you have to do when playing mafia" to an extent

p-edit: basically what april said

[April Ludgate]

Morph is probably my highest read of possible scum partner. I don't like how they've handled Alisae slot at all. Theyve been "im good with fading Alisae" but their actions have constantly been in ways that are leading momentum off of Alisae. They're setting things up, but they want to seem like they are okay with Alisae as well. This is why Morph seems like a scum partner of Alisae or TMIscum who knows Alisae is town.

That in itself is reason for Alisae being a solid Day 1 fade.

[April Ludgate]

Have you played with scum-Alisae before?

I've modded scumAlisae, and just over the years, I've seen Alisae as scum.

I also know based on my interactions with Alisae in person, and who they are. I'm not gonna say I'm 100% confident that e will flip scum, I just think they have high scum equity alongside good info regardless.

[morph the cat]

{Midway, Bell,}
{PLusjoyed, Remilia, Muffin, Secret Tunnels}
{Bulge, S_S, 420prism} <- we think there is at least one scum here or above. we're not sure where.
{April*}
{Maria, Alisae}

* treating this slot as having made a miller claim. Town needs to revisit in a huge way on day 3 at the latest. If we're alive on day 2, it may happen then depending on various ~things~