Mini Normal 2169 : random facts, game over !

[Battle Mage]

yoink pagetop?

[bob3141]

is this the top

[Battle Mage]

I mean, there's a reason my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

[Battle Mage]

is this the top

you're close brudda, i can see you

[Gypyx]

I mean, there's a reason my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

Well no that's just a random signature, you thought it was a reference to what?

[Battle Mage]

I mean,

there's a reason

my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

Well no that's

just a random signature

, you thought it was a reference to what?

This scumpinged me. In blue you claim there's a reason, and in red you claim it's random. Which is it!?

[Tayl0r Swift]

wait am i right in thinking that menal shaded me for my RVS vote on shelly and then proceeded to join me on the shelly wagon? hmm i guess maybe im missing something in the 14 pages i havent read yet

[Battle Mage]

the 3 players on bottom of the player list are:

shellyc
Noraa
Menalque

Maybe the Mod is hinting that there's at least 2 scum in that trio. Maybe best to start with Menalque and work our way up to be safe.

[Battle Mage]

wait am i right in thinking that menal shaded me for my RVS vote on shelly and then proceeded to join me on the shelly wagon? hmm i guess maybe im missing something in the 14 pages i havent read yet

all you really need to know is we are lunching golden today - any q's?

[Tayl0r Swift]

oh btw wrt the fun fact that strawberries arent berries: the scientists who made that definition also say bananas are berries. they can fuck right off.

[Battle Mage]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

[Alonzo]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

Waiting for a couple more to update their stances then I'm gonna start some critical analysis.

[Tayl0r Swift]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

[bob3141]

If you want a TL;DR of the above, it's basically:

Townleans: Battle Mage
Scumleans: Noraa, Menalque
Nulls: Everyone else

So are these still your reads? what do you think of the game since you last posted. As far you ahve only made 4 posts even if one was on the longer side

[Noraa]

Dude no lim is the worst option ever

[Noraa]

im not caught up at all and I'm not really sure when I will be but I'll try to get caught up soon

[bob3141]

Shelly do you still think both golden and nooraa are scum?

As your voting for taylor over two of your scum reads. Although you voted for taylor you did say you wanted to pressure her at the time. So what do you think of taylors catch up?

[Battle Mage]

would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

for full disclosure, i was bored and avoiding work i had to, and this didn't necessarily reflect my heartfelt opinion at the time, nor at present.

However, I do not feel bad for posting it.

I simply feel negatively towards you for trying to guilt trip me for being a bad employee.

[Battle Mage]

im not caught up at all and I'm not really sure when I will be but I'll try to get caught up soon

dude, please at least read my long-ass post specifically to you, it took me like minutes to write

[Noraa]

im not caught up at all and I'm not really sure when I will be but I'll try to get caught up soon

dude, please at least read my long-ass post specifically to you, it took me like minutes to write

quote it rn

[Battle Mage]

yes boss!

Dear Noraa,

I'd like you to read this post carefully, as I'm going to extend a proverbial olive branch to you, in the knowledge that it's possible you might be town. I'm only doing this once, and to be clear, I'm not doing so to try and make you townread me, nor is this an attempt to judge your alignment. I'm communicating with you 'out of character' to try and be helpful and constructive to your development, as I do when I'm an SE player in a newbie game.

I'm doing so because if you're town, I don't want you to leave this game with the feeling of "damn, that BM was so scummy, it was all his fault, I didn't get any enjoyment or educational value from that experience at all". Even if you're scum, as a new player, it would be preferable if you leave this game having gained some valuable experience and knowledge about expectations of town players.

My head says you're giving off lots of textbook scumtells, and like Ico, I'm slightly biased towards eliminating you early in the knowledge you might be town who distracts from eliminating scum and basically a liability at endgame. My heart says you're probably just town - I had a similar experience with a newbie (in a newbie game) a couple months ago which ended pretty badly, and he ended up being town.

Please therefore take this advice, and it is only my opinion from my own experience, in good faith. You are free to think I'm scum before, during and after, but please actually read this and take on board.

1. You and I have no personal beef. I did put you under significant pressure early in the game, and would not have done so had this been a newbie game. However, because this is a normal game, I treat everyone as having a reasonable level of experience by default. You felt I tunnel-visioned you, but I didn't. I tested you, partly because I felt you were newer and more likely to slip up if you were scum. Is it exploitative? Yes, but outside the road to rome, I've always considered everyone fair-game. You are free to look at other completed games of mine, to see that it's just an approach I use - and I do so regardless of alignment, so it's neither an inherent scumtell or towntell.

2. Pretending to tunnel-vision to put pressure on somebody is often good. Actually tunnel-visioning somebody is bad. However, I can say that even as an experienced veteran, I have tunnel-visioned and normally done very badly as a result. In one large theme game, I single-handedly cost town the game by tunnel-visioning. I don't claim to be the world's best mafia player, but I've played a lot of games over the years, and I try hard to improve. Nowadays I'm much more chilled and try to continually re-evaluate people. It doesn't really matter if I get it right first time, the goal is to get the right answer in the end, and if that means admitting my earlier suspicions were wrong, so be it. On a personal level, if you all you do in a game is attack one player, and that player ends up being town, you've essentially just been a detriment to the town. Giving opinions on other players means you make a bigger contribution to the town wincon. Throwing around terms like "confscum" won't do you any favours in terms of building credibility. Saying things like "I think bm is basically a confscum(at least in my head) which is why imma tunnel some more and hopefully get a good case on him bc I want a bm lim today" is obviously problematic for me, because it's acknowledging that you are focussed on trying to create something to prove yourself right, rather than looking at things objectively, and assuming I'm town in this case and unlikely to actually be lunched, it risks making you a redundant player who is not playing for the town and should be policy-elimmed. If you try to actually solve my slot by asking me questions and engaging with me, you'll find it fruitful and insightful. Otherwise, I'm not motivated to engage because you have already made your mind up.

3. You're right not to just give up, but keep an open mind. When Golden told you to abandon your BM-scumread because nobody else agrees with you, I think you were justified in standing by it. Just because nobody agrees with you, doesn't mean you're wrong, and there are scum in this game who will try to influence you, so having a backbone is a good thing. However, what if you're wrong, and I'm not scum? It's important to keep an open mind because, let's say I flip town - what then? I don't think you will want to go and re-read the whole game again. Also, if I'm town, you focussing only on me means that scum can get away with more, and distracts the rest of the town from doing good work. In other words, the key is striking a balance - suspect people but also keep looking and re-evaluating as you go. People will take you much more seriously if they think you are actively scumhunting, rather than trying to find things to confirm your own presumptions. Additionally, even if you're right about me, you're not gaining anything by trying to elim me today because it won't happen - so if I was scum, you'd be better off trying to pick off my partner(s). Crucially, your job as town is not to "prove yourself correct" but to eliminate scum.

The reality is, as I've already claimed, I'm town in this game. But being wrong about my slot is fine. I just ask kindly that you engage with other things going on and make a wider contribution than just focussing entirely on me, which isn't productive for you or anybody else.

I hope this is helpful, and even if you aren't able to read it in good faith now, it's something you can return to after the game as part of a 'lessons learnt' exercise.

Kind regards,

BM

[Battle Mage]

now I'm actually off to sleep as I need to start work again in like 4 hours

[Noraa]

So I read it all and thank you for taking the time to put that post together @BM

But, I kind of hate when I get posts like this because I'm the type of newbie that will actually have more biased reads due to something like this cuz I tend to be more emotionally driven than logically driven.

Anyways besides tunneling u, I have done nothing game advancing here I realize. To put it nicely, I found the tunneling to be very discouraging and it ended up making me put this game on the back burner where I just checked in a hot five times a day and was done with it. I'm no SE but tunneling a newbie no matter where, is not a good idea imo. Sure u might get a scum one day if ur lucky but it's very discouraging for the newbie no matter alignment. I'll try to solve some more over the weekend bc this game has been pretty content heavy and messy. My brain's too fried to deal with it during the week.

[Datisi]

zzz about to crash but quick thoughts

looking at a {shelly, ico, x} scumteam rn but i think that flipping shelly and observing their interactions will be super helpful. if shelly flips scum i'm confident in ico!scum as well and if shelly flips town i'd go to a TL on ico

why does town!shelly imply town!ico?

for some reason i like 813 from golden - the first line pings me gut towny and the second is just what i thought when i read that post from taylor

so i open BM's iso to reread his case on golden. "golden" is mentioned over 70 times. anyway. i feel like half (?) the game is scumreading and attacking him for things i plainly don't understand / see as scum!indicative. bob again feels like the townie voice of reason.

@noraa do you have townreads? (pedit: i see your post, take your time if you need it)

triangle tomorrow

because i'm procrastinating and tired

because i hope taylor and pi catch up by then

[Noraa]

Ik the weekends far away but I don't wanna do one this week so I might do it this week if I see some really good content but otherwise, its gonna be a while before my read goes out