Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[Tayl0r Swift]

I mean Taylor, has either redados or plus had any good reasons to back any SRs up?

Btw autocorrect should apologize to duppin for being an ass

theyve done more. shelly is being shelly which isnt particularly helpful, but i dunno if its scummy. shelly is trying. i mean your reasons for scumreading people are also super weak imo, but youre trying. i know that this is the way you always are. you always tunnel for no reason and base your reads on things i dont understand at all. but i see that its normal for you. so i dont think its AI.

[duppin]

Duppin attention is interesting, I thought he had townie vibes earlier but I guess there are some questions worth asking.

@duppin

-If you agreed with sus!redados why not join the wagon for pressure when it became clear saudade would not be returning any time soon?

Because he is already being pushed so I'd rather have my vote on Saudade to keep pressure on him. I am well aware he said he would be V/LA for 3 days but it ended up being longer.
I understand that he has some IRL stuff to deal with and I hope everything is fine, but I also hope he manages to return before he is replaced since a replacement would most likely result in me not gaining much information from the slot this day.

-Are you aware (1404) that Jester floated the exact same theory when they first replaced out?

No I was not actually but i dont really think it means anything whatsoever unless he actually wants to pursue it which I'd be opposed to. I just brought it up for cheap postgame cred in case it is what happened. I am curious though, what exactly was the point of this question?

-Do you consider "he was actively trying to solve the game when he could have easily just camped his vote" to be a still accurate assessment of bugspray?

i've pinged them out a couple of times now asking for them to follow up on their notes. I still think what they did was a pretty big towntell though, but I will gladly admit that they have dropped a bit and if it continues like this I will definitely revaluate my read on them day 2.
But for day 1 I have no interest in pushing them.

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

I am not sure why you believe it is a straight up lie, it is relatively simple to ISO me to confirm it is not a lie. I have given an explanation for all of my reads including the players I found suspicious.
Whether you approve or disapprove of my reasoning is up to you, but claiming I have not given an explanation is factually wrong.

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

There is no lie here and it is also relatively simple to ISO me to confirm it is not a lie. I have given an explanation for all of my reads including the players I found suspicious.
Whether you approve or disapprove of my reasoning is up to you, but claiming I have not given an explanation is factually wrong.

duppin is 90% scum here.

well your math seems to be a bit off as I am 100% town

can someone explain to me how any of the scumreads from duppin are remotely justified or reasonable? they are super duper weak.

Now see this is where it gets a bit more interesting, because from this point you change your push. Initially you said I provided no explanation for my reads at all even when I did, but from this point you seem to be changing the angle and instead claim that my scumreads are not reasonable. See this is a totally different thing and I think this is a much more valid opinion for you have rather than just calling me a liar. Also by the way if you are town I'd just like to point out you are being rather hypocritical when you claim I have been deflecting and so on (which I have not) when you have been avoiding a lot of questions and I had to ask you multiple times before you would even acknowledge the question. The only reason I mention this is that if you are town then I think it is odd for you to find something suspicious that you do so yourself - perhaps in the sense that it does not seem logical to conclude something that you do yourself as town is coming from a scum perspective if someone else does it. However I will stand by my statement that I did not avoid your deflect any of your questions and I will gladly challenge your claim so feel free to point out where I did that.

Anyway back on topic the fact that you change your push here seems to back up my earlier impression that you hadn't really read my posts properly or attempted to ISO me when you initially started pushing on me.
If you think my reasoning for my scumreads are weak that's fair, it is what it is I am not really looking for approval especially not for day 1 scum reads. Saying I have not explained them however is just not true.

[Noraa]

Why are u SRing based on activity? Plus' reads have been terrible so far. They all sound far more scummy than duppins. Redados' and duppin's r basically the same but still. My reasons have started a wagon that is the biggest wagon so far. I dont "always tunnel for no reason" That literally describes redados perfectly. It's normal for me to hear something really scummy and cling to it until I get a flip, yes. But someones gotta say something pretty damn scummy for me to do that...

[Noraa]

^this post is for Taylor

[UNOwen]

uno, i feel like i can trust you. please look over duppin's iso and tell me what you think of it, too

I see what you are saying. I have asked him some questions (1524) and intend to take a closer look at his ISO tomorrow

when he has had a chance to answer

(nevermind) - and perhaps more importantly when I am less tired. He was a town-lean earlier on, the way he interacted with me felt without agenda and from memory I thought some of his posts displayed town thinking (I believe he was one of the first to suspect Redados). The static Saudade vote is pretty suspicious though, so this is a read worth reviewing.

[duppin]

also and this is such a garbage read but i just cant help myself and no one should try to pursue it but part of me can't help but wonder if jackson and mini replaced out because one of them accidently learned the others alignment in which case it would make sense if they already replaced out, but i just think it would be even more likely if the alignment was scum. but yeah this is just a non sense theory for post game

This post.

ok good thats a strange post but to me its just ??
that doesnt help me sort duppin without more context. does that ping you one way or another? if so, why?

The logic definitely makes sense to me but yes we aren't supposed to talk about it so lets just drop this point.

what do you think of duppin's scumreads?

Idk, he seems to be voting Saudade mainly so there's not much to say about it.

I agree. I see some soft tunneling from him on Saudade which is a bit strange. Saudade has posted so few posts and duping kinda just strikes me as a player that saw saudade as a lil sus or easy limbait(depending on alignment) and basically skimmed everything else and decided to cling to saudade and not let go for the life of him.

When Saudade started posting several players called him out for how good he was and someone said this was his town meta etc but I thought he was suspicious and questioned him. I have never played with him before so what makes you form the conclusion that I would see him as an easy lynch at that point? Mind you this was before he went V/LA

[Redados]

I looked at duppin's ISO and I don't find him particularly scummy?

[Noraa]

Announcement : we are on page 69 of this game >.<

[Redados]

nice

[Noraa]

U-U ending fights in awkward silence is easy
imma god at it :3

[duppin]

by the way i genuinely think the spam in this game has been a bit too much but perhaps thats just me, but keep in mind this is with 1 player being vl/a, 1 replacement and 1 slot still waiting to be replaced

[Noraa]

not to be rude I find the above post really funny. but ight T^T. I haven't fluffed .... too much recently :3

[duppin]

i mean its fine and i definitely prefer high activity games over low activity games, my only concern is that it makes it difficult to keep up if you get busy or whatnot, like its going to be a pain for Saudade to catch up and also for whoever replaces mini

[Noraa]

yeah .... rip

I'll try to keep it to like .... 2 fluffs a day <.<

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why are u SRing based on activity? Plus' reads have been terrible so far. They all sound far more scummy than duppins. Redados' and duppin's r basically the same but still. My reasons have started a wagon that is the biggest wagon so far. I dont "always tunnel for no reason" That literally describes redados perfectly. It's normal for me to hear something really scummy and cling to it until I get a flip, yes. But someones gotta say something pretty damn scummy for me to do that...

im not scum reading by activity. readados has done some things that to me show town, which is why i moved off the wagon and stated i think redados is scum. plus just got here. plus is scummy but plus is always a bit scummy.

[Tayl0r Swift]

also and this is such a garbage read but i just cant help myself and no one should try to pursue it but part of me can't help but wonder if jackson and mini replaced out because one of them accidently learned the others alignment in which case it would make sense if they already replaced out, but i just think it would be even more likely if the alignment was scum. but yeah this is just a non sense theory for post game

This post.

ok good thats a strange post but to me its just ??
that doesnt help me sort duppin without more context. does that ping you one way or another? if so, why?

The logic definitely makes sense to me but yes we aren't supposed to talk about it so lets just drop this point.

what do you think of duppin's scumreads?

Idk, he seems to be voting Saudade mainly so there's not much to say about it.

I agree. I see some soft tunneling from him on Saudade which is a bit strange. Saudade has posted so few posts and duping kinda just strikes me as a player that saw saudade as a lil sus or easy limbait(depending on alignment) and basically skimmed everything else and decided to cling to saudade and not let go for the life of him.

When Saudade started posting several players called him out for how good he was and someone said this was his town meta etc but I thought he was suspicious and questioned him. I have never played with him before so what makes you form the conclusion that I would see him as an easy lynch at that point? Mind you this was before he went V/LA

but since then youve found nothing anyone else has done to be scummy? why is your vote parked on someone not here to defend himself?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Spoiler:

Duppin attention is interesting, I thought he had townie vibes earlier but I guess there are some questions worth asking.

@duppin

-If you agreed with sus!redados why not join the wagon for pressure when it became clear saudade would not be returning any time soon?

Because he is already being pushed so I'd rather have my vote on Saudade to keep pressure on him. I am well aware he said he would be V/LA for 3 days but it ended up being longer.
I understand that he has some IRL stuff to deal with and I hope everything is fine, but I also hope he manages to return before he is replaced since a replacement would most likely result in me not gaining much information from the slot this day.

-Are you aware (1404) that Jester floated the exact same theory when they first replaced out?

No I was not actually but i dont really think it means anything whatsoever unless he actually wants to pursue it which I'd be opposed to. I just brought it up for cheap postgame cred in case it is what happened. I am curious though, what exactly was the point of this question?

-Do you consider "he was actively trying to solve the game when he could have easily just camped his vote" to be a still accurate assessment of bugspray?

i've pinged them out a couple of times now asking for them to follow up on their notes. I still think what they did was a pretty big towntell though, but I will gladly admit that they have dropped a bit and if it continues like this I will definitely revaluate my read on them day 2.
But for day 1 I have no interest in pushing them.

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

I am not sure why you believe it is a straight up lie, it is relatively simple to ISO me to confirm it is not a lie. I have given an explanation for all of my reads including the players I found suspicious.
Whether you approve or disapprove of my reasoning is up to you, but claiming I have not given an explanation is factually wrong.

duppin. you need to explain your reads. you stated some reads but i have no idea why you believe anything that you say you believe.

hm see I have explained all of the reads I have given. I was under the impression that if you were town you reaching out to me was because you were trying to solve my slot, but the impression I am getting is that you have not tried to ISO me and you don't seem to be reading what I am saying either, so I'm beginning to question your motivation actually

this is a straight up lie. you have not explained your reasons for scumreading or townreading anyone. ive asked you to do so repeatedly and you keep deflecting and asking me questions. CITE SPECIFIC POSTS THAT MADE YOU SCUMREAD SOMEONE. i dont care who. just go through an ISO of someone you scumread and explain which posts made you scumread them. stating a scumread is not the same as explaining it. theres 0 game-advancing content coming from you.

There is no lie here and it is also relatively simple to ISO me to confirm it is not a lie. I have given an explanation for all of my reads including the players I found suspicious.
Whether you approve or disapprove of my reasoning is up to you, but claiming I have not given an explanation is factually wrong.

duppin is 90% scum here.

well your math seems to be a bit off as I am 100% town

can someone explain to me how any of the scumreads from duppin are remotely justified or reasonable? they are super duper weak.

Now see this is where it gets a bit more interesting, because from this point you change your push. Initially you said I provided no explanation for my reads at all even when I did, but from this point you seem to be changing the angle and instead claim that my scumreads are not reasonable. See this is a totally different thing and I think this is a much more valid opinion for you have rather than just calling me a liar. Also by the way if you are town I'd just like to point out you are being rather hypocritical when you claim I have been deflecting and so on (which I have not) when you have been avoiding a lot of questions and I had to ask you multiple times before you would even acknowledge the question. The only reason I mention this is that if you are town then I think it is odd for you to find something suspicious that you do so yourself - perhaps in the sense that it does not seem logical to conclude something that you do yourself as town is coming from a scum perspective if someone else does it. However I will stand by my statement that I did not avoid your deflect any of your questions and I will gladly challenge your claim so feel free to point out where I did that.

Anyway back on topic the fact that you change your push here seems to back up my earlier impression that you hadn't really read my posts properly or attempted to ISO me when you initially started pushing on me.
If you think my reasoning for my scumreads are weak that's fair, it is what it is I am not really looking for approval especially not for day 1 scum reads. Saying I have not explained them however is just not true.

i didnt change my tune. unreasonable = not only lacking reasons but lacking a baseline level of attempt to demonstrate that youre gamesolving. you still to this point have not pointed out a single post from a single player you thought was scummy. i dont give you cred for saying you think people are scummy if you cant even justify your stated scumread with a single post. and ive asked you repeatedly now to point out posts that are scummy, and you havent done so.

ive answered all your questions. its one thing to not see a question and then answer it on follow-up. youre blatantly ignoring my questions, which i have now asked at least half a dozen times. show me WHY you scumread the people you do. "hes supposed to be good but hes afk instead!!!" isnt a valid reason.

[duppin]

My vote was parked there because I expected him to show up after the V/LA ended and still kind of hope for him to show up. Just because he has been V/LA does not mean I do not want to pressure his slot.

In hindsight I definitely agree I could have pursued different angles, but my other scumread was already the leading wagon at that point so.
As for anyone else doing something scummy - sure they have, which is why I have questioned them on it. I have also gained more townreads as the game has progressed which I am perfectly content with for a day 1 especially one this spammy

[duppin]

but you did change your tune, I don't really understand how you can deny that. Whether it was intentional or not, you certainly did. You initially claimed I did not explain any of my reads at all and then later when you (presumely) read my post again since you quoted it you changed it to my scumreads not being reasonable.

Also which questions have I ignored? I have responded to all of your posts. I have also explained why I find Saudade suspicious which you would not if you had ISOed me.
My impression was that Saudade was trying to get by with his apparent reputation by just posting to be heard rather than actually trying to solve the game

[Tayl0r Swift]

My vote was parked there because I expected him to show up after the V/LA ended and still kind of hope for him to show up. Just because he has been V/LA does not mean I do not want to pressure his slot.

In hindsight I definitely agree I could have pursued different angles, but my other scumread was already the leading wagon at that point so.
As for anyone else doing something scummy - sure they have, which is why I have questioned them on it. I have also gained more townreads as the game has progressed which I am perfectly content with for a day 1 especially one this spammy

ok, pick someone else you scumread and scumcase them.

[Tayl0r Swift]

but you did change your tune, I don't really understand how you can deny that. Whether it was intentional or not, you certainly did. You initially claimed I did not explain any of my reads at all and then later when you (presumely) read my post again since you quoted it you changed it to my scumreads not being reasonable.

Also which questions have I ignored? I have responded to all of your posts. I have also explained why I find Saudade suspicious which you would not if you had ISOed me.
My impression was that Saudade was trying to get by with his apparent reputation by just posting to be heard rather than actually trying to solve the game

there is NO REASONING for any of your scumreads, so they are UNREASONABLE. i keep asking you to provide reasons because there ARENT ANY REASONS

[duppin]

My vote was parked there because I expected him to show up after the V/LA ended and still kind of hope for him to show up. Just because he has been V/LA does not mean I do not want to pressure his slot.

In hindsight I definitely agree I could have pursued different angles, but my other scumread was already the leading wagon at that point so.
As for anyone else doing something scummy - sure they have, which is why I have questioned them on it. I have also gained more townreads as the game has progressed which I am perfectly content with for a day 1 especially one this spammy

ok, pick someone else you scumread and scumcase them.

But these are my scumreads. Why should I force scumreads?

but you did change your tune, I don't really understand how you can deny that. Whether it was intentional or not, you certainly did. You initially claimed I did not explain any of my reads at all and then later when you (presumely) read my post again since you quoted it you changed it to my scumreads not being reasonable.

Also which questions have I ignored? I have responded to all of your posts. I have also explained why I find Saudade suspicious which you would not if you had ISOed me.
My impression was that Saudade was trying to get by with his apparent reputation by just posting to be heard rather than actually trying to solve the game

there is NO REASONING for any of your scumreads, so they are UNREASONABLE. i keep asking you to provide reasons because there ARENT ANY REASONS

But there are reasons. You disliking the reasons does not mean there aren't reasons.

[Tayl0r Swift]

My vote was parked there because I expected him to show up after the V/LA ended and still kind of hope for him to show up. Just because he has been V/LA does not mean I do not want to pressure his slot.

In hindsight I definitely agree I could have pursued different angles, but my other scumread was already the leading wagon at that point so.
As for anyone else doing something scummy - sure they have, which is why I have questioned them on it. I have also gained more townreads as the game has progressed which I am perfectly content with for a day 1 especially one this spammy

ok, pick someone else you scumread and scumcase them.

But these are my scumreads. Why should I force scumreads?

but you did change your tune, I don't really understand how you can deny that. Whether it was intentional or not, you certainly did. You initially claimed I did not explain any of my reads at all and then later when you (presumely) read my post again since you quoted it you changed it to my scumreads not being reasonable.

Also which questions have I ignored? I have responded to all of your posts. I have also explained why I find Saudade suspicious which you would not if you had ISOed me.
My impression was that Saudade was trying to get by with his apparent reputation by just posting to be heard rather than actually trying to solve the game

there is NO REASONING for any of your scumreads, so they are UNREASONABLE. i keep asking you to provide reasons because there ARENT ANY REASONS

But there are reasons. You disliking the reasons does not mean there aren't reasons.

"saudade is supposed to be good but instead hes afk" isnt a reason.
who are your scumreads? saudade and? walk me through one other than saudade

[duppin]

I never said at any point that my scumread on Saudade had to do with him being afk. See this is why I am really confused as to why you do not just ISO me.

I admitted when I engaged Saudade that my read on him might be influenced by the players hyping him up yes but my read on him was that he was posting to be heard rather than to gamesolve. To me it felt like he was trying to play very safe and I thought it was really odd how he on one hand also hyped his own "god reads" yet on the other hand also pushed the "no reads this early" - and I am perfectly aware that it is on one hand a reasonable enough statement to not have good reads early on, but it felt off to me plus his posts overall felt like he just wanted to make sure people noticed him which I think is scummy. My first idea was to give him some time to see what he would do but then out of nowhere he engaged Norwee and Norwee reacted really well in my opinion and gave me a townread on him plus he voted on Saudade and then I was tempted to join the wagon to see what Saudade would do so I joined. Shortly after that he went V/LA. So ultimately nothing has happened since to really sway my initial impressions of him.

The other scumread I gave early on was on Redados. I have also explained my reasoning for this several times.
I think it would be easiest to refer to this post actually since this was the gist of it:

duppin what other reads do you have

i don't really concur with your red read, fwiw he seems pretty disagreeable by thinking that the game is moving in a direction he dislikes

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

As I said when I gave my reads before he hasn't really done much to change my mind. No matter what his alignment is I believe he is too caught up on Noora's push on him.
What I will say though is that I am actually a bit surprised with his latest posts as I did not expect him to defend me. If he is scum it seems more logical for him to at least try to discredit me a little bit since I called him scummy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah honestly, i've never lost faith in the Saudade wagon.
But he got into a VLA so now nobody will eliminate him. That's just bad luck for town really. Gives scum an excuse.