Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[shellyc]

didn’t mean to quote that but im going to follow up on that

I scumread you because I heavily scumread your pred, and you aren’t making me changing my mind on you
especially the duppin read sounds like an attempt on attacking lurking LHF

I don’t townread duppin, duppin was always a null for me, but if you’re red I don’t see you bussing there

[shellyc]

at what point did i say everyone else was null?

at least from the vibe I get you’re just hard tunnelling duppin and ignoring that whole conflict

[shellyc]

I can make a big ugly quote wall on Taylor and duppin but im not really feeling it today. also idk why you think the only compelling way to scumread people is apparently to do PBPA and quote posts

[Tayl0r Swift]

at what point did i say everyone else was null?

at least from the vibe I get you’re just hard tunnelling duppin and ignoring that whole conflict

i did weigh in on that. i weighed in on it a bunch, tried to convince you all to stop, and then decided you werent going to listen to reason so i was just gonna start leaving you alone and going and doing my own scumhunting elsewhere. in what world does scum!me do that rather than just let the town duke it out?

and no you dont need to do play by play or to quote posts. i frequently just state gutreads. but like im trying to understand your progression here, and if you just say "i townread x" and then 100 posts later say "i scumread x" then im left saying ????????
so you need to show me your progression somehow. since you havent done it any other way im asking for you to at least point me to the posts where you changed your mind.

[Tayl0r Swift]

finally ive finished the 12 pages

i think norwayVplus is kinda TvS-ish, with the lack of coherent logic
I think taylor is my top SR
plusjoy is still a scummy slot
scumpings on noraa has increased but might just be LHF
if taylor is red duppin is probgreen
norwee has now become nullish
redados is townleaning with the pushes and mentality i see a townie mindset tbh
mundivore iso isnt exactly great but i want to see more content
jester still town
hot take i kinda SR bugs for not giving us his notes but stating he has notes in notes pt. moving out of rvs is nai and idk why hes getting so much cred for it.

ok now that you're voting for me im gonna need you to explain why you scumread me exactly. and why do you think duppin is town?

please cite specific posts.

I never scumread Norway, I asked you to elaborate on Norway

thats true. you actually consistently expressed a townread on norwee. now its null. so what happened there?

[bugspray]

VOTE: mundivore
there is too much content for me to read but i checked activity overview and noticed that mundivore has even fewer posts than me which I find unthinkable considering how low volume my posting has been

[bugspray]

the vote has deeper reasons, i did a quick iso skim and i felt the ping a few times, i think if saud is not lying about depression and is indeed town then the wagon's long lasting momentum was almost certainly supported by scum that want to make townies waste their precious thinking time on a wagon that they don't expect anyone to actually hammer. it reminds me of reservoir dogs ddu (where i was mr pink) how i kept tring to roleplay that the rats (scum) were just yap yapping and preventing meaningful discussion from taking place

[Tayl0r Swift]

the vote has deeper reasons, i did a quick iso skim and i felt the ping a few times, i think if saud is not lying about depression and is indeed town then the wagon's long lasting momentum was almost certainly supported by scum that want to make townies waste their precious thinking time on a wagon that they don't expect anyone to actually hammer. it reminds me of reservoir dogs ddu (where i was mr pink) how i kept tring to roleplay that the rats (scum) were just yap yapping and preventing meaningful discussion from taking place

this makes it sound like youre the one doing what you did in that scumgame of yours...

[bugspray]

i need to actually look at the saude wagon and not just do this pointless vote VOTE: unvote

pedit
which scumgame?

[bugspray]

@tay
Which scumgame?
What did I do?

[Tayl0r Swift]

reservoir dogs? you brought it up

[bugspray]

I wasn't scum in that game.

[bugspray]

I'm referring to what scum was doing in that game.

[bugspray]

Why did you refer to a game in which I was town as "my scumgame"?
VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

[bugspray]

okay ti was "scumgame of yours" but that still implies that you believe I was scum in the game I am referring to

[Tayl0r Swift]

okay ti was "scumgame of yours" but that still implies that you believe I was scum in the game I am referring to

yep. and thats how i read your post. you scumreading me for that is ??

[bugspray]

What did I do in that game and how is it similar to here?

[bugspray]

Why did you believe I was scum? In my post I wrote about how I was trying to point out scum's tactics while still roleplaying as the character from the movie and I believe those tactics (which worked effectively there) are also in play here.

[bugspray]

Even if nora and shelly are not scum they are being manipulated by scum to act as unwitting agents

[bugspray]

tayl0r are you still there? what do you think about these ideas?
1) the saud wagon's long lasting momentum was due to scum influence
2) Even if nora and shelly are not scum they are being manipulated by scum to act as unwitting agents

[bugspray]

I'm interested in what shelly has to say

[duppin]

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

redados SR'd saude, didnt he?

but you've made your point, I'll sort redados later as I have experience with them, for now I want to sort you + Grendel first

But he did absolutely nothing with it. He did not try to engage anyone or push which lead to me thinking he is trying to avoid confrontation.

and this is kinda fair, but redados has since engaged with people and done some good stuff. you havent. and you havent really pushed anyone except for the eight posts you pointed out to me, of which half were not doing anything except repeating/not really pressuring but just pointing stuff out with surface-level analysis. we are now 50 pages into the game and you've expressed one scumread based on meta that other people presented, and one scum read based on really weak arguments that you havent done much to follow up on and havent done much with. I cant follow your progessions at all, and i find it hard to believe that your only scumreads are an inactive player based on a sheeped meta-read and a weak "you havent done enough solving" argument that id say isnt even true anymore.

What do you mean? Which one of my scumreads do you believe is based on base that other people have presented? Neither the redados nor the Saudade read is based on their meta in fact I mentioned I am very confused about the meta reads on Saudade because some people claim it is his town meta whereas others claim it is a scumtell for him.

As for Redados could you elaborate on your read on him? you claim he has since done some good stuff but what exactly are you referring to?

Yes I have only given 2 more solid scumreads, do you believe that is a scumtell? If so then I expect you to be more consistent with it. I have also found some townreads I feel rather strong about it for whatever that is worth and I am perfectly fine with that on day 1.

Tayl0r by the way are you an alt or a new player?

im not an alt.

i see. the reason i ask is because i initially assumed you were an alt when you replaced in due to the name but the way you have approached some of his has just felt a bit off to me. Your push on me feels like you're being overeager which is something I'd consider more likely to be a towntell for a new player simply because to me it kind of comes across as you legitimately believing you caught on to something and is frustrated when you do not get the support you feel you should get. However I would like to read some of your scum games actually, mind linking me to your latest?

Also what I will say if you're town then you really need to take a step back and properly evaluate me You are clearly tunneling and it seems pretty obvious at this point that you had not ISO'ed me when you initially tried to push on me. You also seem busier trying to look for support rather than trying to engage with me and all of this just seems to suggest you have already made up your mind.
If you're scum then your push is really bad as well for what it is worth since getting me mislynched would most likely result in a trade with the way you approached it and I'd be fine with that trade.

yes but just complaining about the state and not attempting to move it in a direction is suspicious to me. he seems to be complaining about the game state and being very careful with his reads (he essentially ended up only giving town reads) which to me indicate is trying to avoid confrontation while still appearing active. I am perfectly aware it might be too early to tell but that is the impression I am left with

redados SR'd saude, didnt he?

but you've made your point, I'll sort redados later as I have experience with them, for now I want to sort you + Grendel first

But he did absolutely nothing with it. He did not try to engage anyone or push which lead to me thinking he is trying to avoid confrontation.

and this is kinda fair, but redados has since engaged with people and done some good stuff. you havent. and you havent really pushed anyone except for the eight posts you pointed out to me, of which half were not doing anything except repeating/not really pressuring but just pointing stuff out with surface-level analysis. we are now 50 pages into the game and you've expressed one scumread based on meta that other people presented, and one scum read based on really weak arguments that you havent done much to follow up on and havent done much with. I cant follow your progessions at all, and i find it hard to believe that your only scumreads are an inactive player based on a sheeped meta-read and a weak "you havent done enough solving" argument that id say isnt even true anymore.

also it doesnt seem like your reads have developed in the past 30 pages, which makes it increasingly likely that you just picked a couple people to scumread and stuck with it, which is what scum sometimes do

Sure and sometimes scum don't do it, are you really trying to push a scum might sometimes do X narrative?
In either case my reads have developed, like bugspray dropped a bit and I got townlean on shelly etc, although yeah the read on Saudade didn't change for obvious reasons. Well actually the one thing that I was a bit skeptical about was the random townreads on him but I need more info to conclude anything from them. I'd say if Mundivore is scum then I do not believe Saudade is with them simply because the townread+vote thing Mundivore did to Saudade is just so weird.
PlusJOYED however still hasn't explained his apparent meta read on Saudade yet even though he has been asked to. As I have mentioned before I have a hard time believing a town would have a townread on Saudade at this point, I'd expect most to not really have a read on him at all.

Also who cares if reads don't develop in the past X amount of pages if people do a lot of non alignment indicative stuff? I don't how to read all the spammy OMGUS meta reads people are throwing at each other.
Anyway as I said reads have developed. First of all regarding you I initially thought you were an alt when you replaced in which was why I initially assumed your push was you trying to test me or something but the way your push evolved and the changes you made me question that, so now that I know that you are not an alt your push on me strikes me a little more as an overeager new player which I can't help but feel is a slight town tell, however I would really like to read your latest scumgame first + I think it is a bad push for you to do as scum simply because the way you did it means you would most likely end up getting traded if you managed to mislynch me.
Redados recent defense of me threw me off a bit as I think that would be a mistake to do if he was scum given my read on him and the pressure on him

Anyway:

@PlusJOYED

could you please elaborate on your meta read on Saudade already?

@shelly

could you elaborate a bit on why you think there has to be a scum between me and Tayl0r?

[shellyc]

@shelly could you elaborate a bit on why you think there has to be a scum between me and Tayl0r?

I scumread Taylor and I townread you.

If Taylor flips green, I am inclined to trust their read, since this whole thing feels off to me somehow. idrt you’re TvT’ing, the way Taylor hard tunnels you and ignores everything else is very scum indicative and I don’t think it’s scum theatre due to the genuineness of the whole argumentation

[shellyc]

EBWOP: I scumread Taylor and I townlean you.

[duppin]

anyway, here is the case:

duppin has not had any read progression in 50 pages now.

That is not true though. Examples would be bugs dropping, shelly becoming a townread, redados now giving off town vibes with the sudden defense of me, suspicious of the players giving a townread on Saudade since I do not believe town would have that read, I can kind of buy Mundivores explanation but Plus still has not explained his meta read yet, trying to solve your slot as well since you are trying to push me and now at the moment leaning more towards overeager town but unsure about your scumrange so want to read scumgame

duppin cannot point to specific posts that make him scumread him. after being pressed for an extended period duppin pointed to one post where there was a decent level of engagement with a slot he says he scumreads. one post.

i didn't link to one post? i linked to several and I pointed out that i had interacted with both of the players i called out, you kept saying i couldnt and that i didnt explain any of my reads and so on, i told you that you could just ISO me, you then said I was deflecting and whatnot lol. also this is just a bad read in general since reads dont have to be based on a specific post per say eg UNOwen is pushing on redados not for what he is doing but for what he does not think he is doing. In fact and this is quite ironic it comes across as you pushing on me not for what I have said but for what you believe i havent said. That was obviously just an example, read can also be based on overall tone and whatever and as for redados i clearly pointed out the posts though.

duppin's vote has been parked on a slot who is inactive for irl reasons and has since done almost nothing to solve.

vote has been parked true that is fair criticism but if he had showed up after his v/la then this would never have been an issue, nonetheless you dont have to vote on someone to try to solve their slot, i am definitely trying to solve other slots and have been getting townreads.

duppin is very wishy-washy in reads, and seems capable basically of stating a townread-ish, but cant justify scumreads. that sort of inability to scumhunt is generally a sign that the person is scum, since scum have difficulty scumhunting.

i have justified all of my scumreads, you are free to explain exactly what part of my logic it is that you disagree with if you want to discuss that. I do not think i am very wishy-washy in my reads either, but i am not going to say stuff like someone is 90% scum on day 1 when i can't even bother to ISO them to be honest.

when pressed to produce content and reads, duppin points exclusively to posts he has already made, which suggests that duppin is unable to engage critically with the game and that he is concerned with not contradicting himself. if his scumreads were genuine he would be able to give off-the-cuff reads and be more spontaneous.

not really? I explained my reads to noora when asked and then you asked me about reads that i had previously given and i pointed out that these were already explained so you could just iso them. I don't think there is anything that suggests i am unable to engage critically with the game I also dont see how you conclude that this would mean i would be concered with not contradicting myself, not like it would be difficult for me to just repeat my previous reads.

all of these are things that are not only anti-town and bad, but more than likely come from a scum mindset. theres no genuine scumhunting. if hes town he really needs to step it up, but the way hes been attempting to deflect my pressure suggests that he isnt engaging with me in good faith.

you can complain about my playstyle if you wish to do so, but let's go over it:
first of all as i mentioned when i attempted to push a policy lynch on Jester, there is a big difference between something being anti-town and somethign being scummy. So let's start with anti town, you can argue that me trying to policy lynch Jester based on nothing but the selfvote is anti town in case Jester is town, you can also argue that me keeping my vote on Saudade is anti town in the sense that he is missing so the vote itself is useless as long as he is V/LA. However you have failed to explain why you think my vote on Saudade is scummy and why it is "more likely to come from a scum mindset".
What do you believe my motivation for scum would be to keep my vote parked on him?

As for scumhunting there certainly is. I am not going to do a "lol this guy is 90% scum omg vote why is everyone ignoring me" day 1 no, but if you do not believe I am trying to solve slots then it is what it is, you can be bothered with my playstyle and I can call yours out for being bad as well, difference is i am not convinced yours is coming from a scum perspective.

You claim I am deflecting as I said earlier I will gladly challenge that claim, so please point out where you think I am deflecting? I am also baffled that you keep claiming that I have not been engaging you when I have acknowledged and responded to every single question.

and then theres the fact that no one has been willing to move their vote or get on board. if a townie is really really insistent on pressuring another town slot, usually scum are willing to hop on the wagon and see where it goes, because they dont have to lead the wagon and the fight is TvT. since i expressed my scumread on duppin a counterwagon has formed on me, but no one has moved to vote duppin. what does that tell you?

okay this is actually a really bad WIFOM read. First of all it is weird for you to expect scum to immediately jump in on a tvt wagon also it's rather funny how you on one hand are saying it's weird that scum would not jump in on a tvt yet also calling people out for voting on you - or does that read only apply if they side with you?
Also and this is just a general tip, if you want to call out wagons then name names. If you think I am scum, then who do you think my partners are that voted on you? What makes you believe it makes more sense for them to vote on you if they were partners with me rather than just jumping on of the current wagons?