Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[Gamma Emerald]

gottem

link to VC on this page

[JohnnyFarrar]

btw I think upon a Pine scumflip we need to light a fire under ABR and Cakez for both shading me

I mean, I wish they had buttfires now

[CreativeMod1]

roomblock was probably factional

I doubt it's factional, but just in case...

@Mod, is it possible for the doctors to have other factional abilities that aren't listed in the rules? Or are all other abilities from their careers?
Also the factional Operate ability, is that a once per night thing?

If Nos is claiming to have been operated on last night, then that means that neither Pine nor Gamma got operated on last night?

[lilith2013]

V OTECOUNT 2.008
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Gamma Emerald	Nosferatu	EL-6	3	2	4	Gamma Emerald
SirCakez	None	EL-7	2	3	3	SirCakez
CreativeMod1	None	EL-7	3	3	3	CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage	PenguinPower	EL-6	3	3	3	Albert B. Rampage
Pine	SirCakez, Gamma Emerald, Albert B. Rampage, Ydrasse, JohnnyFarrar	EL-2	3	3	4	Pine
Bingle	CreativeMod1	EL-6	3	3	3	Bingle
Nosferatu	None	EL-7	3	3	1	Nosferatu
I Keep Siteflaking	None	EL-7	3	3	3	I Keep Siteflaking
PenguinPower	None	EL-7	3	3	3	PenguinPower
Fun and Games	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Fun and Games
Ydrasse	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar	Bingle, Fun and Games	EL-5	3	3	3	JohnnyFarrar
Not Voting	Pine, I Keep Siteflaking
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2020-10-11 20:28:04)
Notes: my poor pagetop PenguinPower V/LA until Oct 6 pagetops: Lilith 10 | penguin 9 | cm1 2 | ABR 1 | gamma 2 | gb 1 | fun & games 1 | johnnyf 1 | nosferatu 1

[Bingle]

Bungle what you thinking bout Ally B? Skeeves me out, that one

He's been kinda low presence this game, but I don't know how much of that is that I'm used to replacing into games with him and the general lurksack nature of this PL.

I have absolutely no intention to vote him, but his claimed role is supposedly worded pretty strangely. We also theoretically had a 60% chance of destroying the N0 lab if both he and I attacked it and did not.

Why didn't Gamma attempt to destroy the lab?

If he's town there wouldn't be a reason for him to. That's kind of the point. My idea on trying to blow up a lab on N0 was that it'd be nice to be nearconftown in a mechsetup where I couldn't be easily killed and I had a decent chance at a yolo success + a low chance of someone else trying the same thing.

In any case, we're not eliminating him today so it's not an important bridge to burn just yet.

[Bingle]

Im planning on sending both of my items out so that I can prove this but need to work out the right people to send to

I have reconsidered, btw, and would prefer you send to not me because of role stuff.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Send one to Nos now

[Gamma Emerald]

if you have anything that can disrupt some else's action's at night I'd prefer to be the one who gets it

[Bingle]

I seem to remember someone pushing for a preemptive massclaim of action targets and I want to go back to that, but don't have time to hunt it down atm.

Are you talking about

I see I have somehow completely missed the existence of the dawn phase - I am quite bad at reading rules.

Should we mass-claim what we did last night and our motivations behind our actions?

Nah.

This conversation was what I was talking about.

Spoiler:

Wouldnt we want to try to coordinate that so we dont have 7 people trying to do that at the same time?

It's very very possible I missed something in the rules but i'm not sure why we'd want/need to hide that info?

Or like now there's 2 labs. What if 6 people pile on the first one and nobody goes to the second one?

Like I just dont fully understand what the benefit is to deliberately be secretive about everything

Also stats are public so wouldnt we just want to send the people with like the two highest knowledge scores to lab 1 and then the next two people to lab 2 (or some slight variation on this)?

(I'm saying like 2 people because if we just send one they can be scum and just not go and lie about it, but if two people are sent we'd need them both to be scum for that to happen)

~ Games

Honestly if we want to coordinate something like this I suggest, at least for today, we do 3 on one, 3 on the other, and 6 don’t try to destroy a lab tonight.

Also, I think I’m willing to interpret this motion by F&G as neutrally benign, so I’ll state I explored
And to Bingle, no I did not see what room I entered in my personal results.

I think ABR always picks himself to be voice because he doesn't like having to rely on the competence of others, plus he has the stubbornness to get his way if someone disagreed.

You don't know me at all and are dead wrong about this.

That's honestly kinda likely to happen if we dont coordinate. Maybe not 7, but for sure more people than we need

And i feel like you're trying to not understand my point and are pushing us for spurious reasons

Do u have a reason why we shouldnt just send the ~2 most knowledgeable people to each room?

Town doesn't know what countermeasures are in place by Doctors, so trying to plan with less information is generally a bad idea.

I have been thinking about the setup and below are some of my thoughts so far.



I've played similar games where there are rooms etc and one way to find the bad guys is to have a running tally of actions etc.

It seems one way the scum could kill people is by attacking them at night as one of their actions - as room exploration, lab deactivation attacks are not public actions.

In lieu of a standard nightkill, the scum have an anonymous attack - they also could attack somebody directly if they believe they have a good chance of killing them as a dead person is unable to say anything.

They can also use their nightactions to attack a person directly,

For example the entire scum team could attack Bingle and if they succeed in dealing him enough damage - he would not be able to tell us who his attackers were as he is dead.

One way I thought of to deal with this is if we coordinate our night actions on rooms that provide verification.

For example if all of us were to use the gym - all of us would get a speed increase of 1 - scum who would try to do something evil would not get this speed increase and be exposed.

Also @Nosferatu - what happened to your knowledge? Did the scum use their factional ability to reduce it? This would put you very close to dying if I am reading the rules correctly and you should go to the library to fix this.


Also as for mech-speculation - I do not believe it is a priority to destroy the labs currently as our player count is quite high - it would make sense imo to have higher knowledge players destroy labs.

A player with a knowledge score of 3 has only a 10/27 chance of de-activating a lab successfully - and failure would be a wasted action on the part of the town. Also the lower the probability of success is, the easier it is for scum to do something evil and pretend like his night-action was to de-activate a lab when it really was not.


~Fun

I don't think most people would suggest such an obviously beneficial-to-scum plan as scum. As soon as the roomstop became public knowledge they would be under the spotlight. I kinda want second opinions there as I have a bit of a habit of reading things like this as too clearing.

[lilith2013]

@lili does operating take an action from one of the doctors? Or is it bonus like the faction attack

All factional actions are counted separately from the action threshold of each individual player.

@MOD personal PTs are transferred whenever a player is replaced right?

Yes, personal PTs are transferred when players are replaced.

@Mod, is it possible for the doctors to have other factional abilities that aren't listed in the rules? Or are all other abilities from their careers?

It is possible for other factional abilities to exist.

Also the factional Operate ability, is that a once per night thing?

Please refer to the description of the ability in post 7:

DOCTORS have a factional operation ability. Each night, they can select one player to operate on and increase or decrease that player's Knowledge by 1.

[Bingle]

So I have an ability that let’s me “activate or destroy a lab without using a night action”.

I have absolutely no intention to vote him, but his claimed role is supposedly worded pretty strangely. We also theoretically had a 60% chance of destroying the N0 lab if both he and I attacked it and did not.

Why didn't Gamma attempt to destroy the lab?

maybe because I wanted to raise my knowledge?
Stop throwing weak ass shade, bro.

What?

[Fun and Games]

Oh did you vote and leave? Boring.

little things like 'my job' and 'work' got in the way

i'm around for a bit now tho

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

BR does seem a bit sus but in a towny way rn.

how is he sus in a ~townie~ way?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

abr i've been trying to engage with you for a while now but i feel like you're not responding to me ...

~ skitter

[Gamma Emerald]

So I have an ability that let’s me “activate or destroy a lab without using a night action”.

I have absolutely no intention to vote him, but his claimed role is supposedly worded pretty strangely. We also theoretically had a 60% chance of destroying the N0 lab if both he and I attacked it and did not.

Why didn't Gamma attempt to destroy the lab?

maybe because I wanted to raise my knowledge?
Stop throwing weak ass shade, bro.

What?

Just because it doesn't take a night action doesn't mean I don't still need to do a knowledge roll. So I tried to boost my knowledge n1 to improve my chances on subsequent nights.

[Gamma Emerald]

BR does seem a bit sus but in a towny way rn.

how is he sus in a ~townie~ way?

~ skitter

I have since reconsidered (by which I mean he's acted in a way that changed my mind) but he seemed to type of abrasive that I'd expect town to be more often than not, a sort of "devil may care" attitude to how his pushes were perceived.

[Fun and Games]

isn't being abrasive just like ... part of his personality? i'm not sure that's ai for him

he's also, like, not really pushing anything, saying things that is kinda silly for this stage of the game (just like .... reread his iso, how much of it actually makes sense? i can pull quotes if necessary). he apparently is bemoaning the fact that he has no townreads when i think he should have at least a couple, but is doing nothing to get any, and is just floating and saying silly things

whereas pine's being like absent isn't super ai for him as far as i know

[Gamma Emerald]

ABR has pushed me at times. And I specifically thought his devil-may-care attitude was towny, as he seemed like he wanted to solve the game over look towny, which is definitely a town MO. After seeing him taking a few cheap shots though, that evaluation had lost its sensibility. You seem to be saying ABR has been silent, is that in general or compared to his normal play, because if it's the former I don't fully agree.

[Albert B. Rampage]

a) i feel like you could be (significantly) townier
b) you're asking silly questions and saying silly things (you really have no townreads ?)
c) i've been trying to get a reaction out of you

~ skitter

@abr

Keep in mind this is my first game back after a hiatus, so what you're interpreting as scummy may just be me taking it easy.

How likely is it that Gamma-scum put a +1 knowledge on Pine n0 to set him up, and when no one else mentioned it, brought it up himself on d2?

Based on the fact that he lost speed, visited library and 2 labs were activated - not very likely.

I want to examine this question more closely. Where did scum use their knowledge modifier N2? How do you know if Gamma really visited the library, rather than giving himself the +1 knowledge right before activating a lab?

Who the fuck said scum have a +1 knowledge modifier?

Lilith. Want me to quote? Hold on...

DOCTORS have a factional operation ability. Each night, they can select one player to operate on and increase or decrease that player's Knowledge by 1.

It is possible for other factional abilities to exist.

Looks like they have abilities town doesn't know about.

abr i've been trying to engage with you for a while now but i feel like you're not responding to me ...

~ skitter

You made several posts while I wasn't here and then complained I wasn't getting back to you.

What's your top 3 scumreads?

ABR has pushed me at times. And I specifically thought his devil-may-care attitude was towny, as he seemed like he wanted to solve the game over look towny, which is definitely a town MO. After seeing him taking a few cheap shots though, that evaluation had lost its sensibility. You seem to be saying ABR has been silent, is that in general or compared to his normal play, because if it's the former I don't fully agree.

I made a few circumstantial pushes on you to see what would shake out, and I didn't find anything to make me think you're more likely scum than Pine. Due to how events played out, I'm guessing that eliminating Pine will give us more information on the game state.

[Fun and Games]

Keep in mind this is my first game back after a hiatus, so what you're interpreting as scummy may just be me taking it easy.

Do you really not have any townreads ...?
i'm kinda having a hard time believing that a lot of what you're saying is coming from someone playing from a town mindsent

You made several posts while I wasn't here and then complained I wasn't getting back to you.

What's your top 3 scumreads?

a) several of my posts were in response to you posting ...
b) i literally listed my top three scumreads like a few pages ago and nothing has really changed since then, but ok. you, pine, beeboy's slot.

~ skitter

[JohnnyFarrar]

Say my name you coward. Why did you only vote me after i joined.?

Also my first game from a hiatus! Twinsies.

[Fun and Games]

i was voting beeboy earlier at some point i'm p sure
at the very least i indicated i wanted to

and voting the slot when it's empty is kinda useless, no?

also when did you figure out the setup?
also why is pine scum?

[Fun and Games]

Say my name you coward. Why did you only vote me after i joined.?

Kind of hard to vote for Johnny before Johnny joins the game.

Would need to be some kind of time traveler for that.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm still a little fuzzy on certain stuff (like where did you guys see the gym as a place you could go? I still don't know what rooms are available) But I read the opening post and am hip to most of the conjecture in thread.

Pine isn't trying. They've been caught and have decided not to defend themselves. The extra knowledge out of nowhere seals it. That came from scum, no question.

[lilith2013]

boop