Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Hectic]

Krazy is probably town because he's exceptionally adept with mechanics. Chara can attest to this. He came into a Boon game while I was hydraing with Billy Pilgrim and powersolved it by compiling all the mech together and forming an optimal strat. I very much doubt he makes the error of accidentally giving town an extra elim here.

There's the question of him nokilling for WIFOM, but that's a pretty all around losing play, like a last resort "why not" play if you really think you don't have a chance, but it then doesn't fit his mindset yesterday, where he was efforting a fair bit, and put a lot of effort into a Tanner case.

Maybe I'm dumb but he's moved up a couple of spaces for me just based on this no-kill. I think Pooky and Lavender are most likely to no-kill here. Pooky for the memes and Lavender because she miscalculated or forgot to.

[Hectic]

Yes, that's right. The Tanner case was infact a link to a Chara avatar. Still don't know how Krazy got away with that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am shocked you would think I would meme this incredibly serious situation :3

[Hectic]

[Lavender]

Oh man, I don't really need such worship, I was just there at the right place at the right time (ovo)
Still I feel flattered, thanks XD

Also, isn't the third picture of Frisk? O.O

[Lavender]

I once again failed to see there was another page ahah...

[Hectic]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Isis has assured me repeatedly that I am not secretly the third scum in the cute animal alliance and that she did not send me the wrong PM so I am quite sure I am good here. Hectic why are you trying to push me?

[Morning Tweet]

Krazy is probably town because he's exceptionally adept with mechanics. Chara can attest to this. He came into a Boon game while I was hydraing with Billy Pilgrim and powersolved it by compiling all the mech together and forming an optimal strat. I very much doubt he makes the error of accidentally giving town an extra elim here.

There's the question of him nokilling for WIFOM, but that's a pretty all around losing play, like a last resort "why not" play if you really think you don't have a chance, but it then doesn't fit his mindset yesterday, where he was efforting a fair bit, and put a lot of effort into a Tanner case.

Maybe I'm dumb but he's moved up a couple of spaces for me just based on this no-kill. I think Pooky and Lavender are most likely to no-kill here. Pooky for the memes and Lavender because she miscalculated or forgot to.

I see no reason for scum not to kill other than for WIFOM i guess. You make a fair point that it's a sort of "why not" play and Krazy was efforting pretty decently.

[Hectic]

Isis has assured me repeatedly that I am not secretly the third scum in the cute animal alliance and that she did not send me the wrong PM so I am quite sure I am good here. Hectic why are you trying to push me?

Fine... if you

insist

, I guess I'll start working on that case. I would've made it overnight but you can't quote posts while the thread is locked.

[Morning Tweet]

6) Could it be that Puppy is scum with Elements? Would be very interesting to re-examine the Puppy slot. I would be sad if my puppy friend was scum here.

This is part of Pooky's big d1 reads list. very sneaky if scum

[Hectic]

6) Could it be that Puppy is scum with Elements? Would be very interesting to re-examine the Puppy slot. I would be sad if my puppy friend was scum here.

This is part of Pooky's big d1 reads list. very sneaky if scum

It's worth noting that Pooky made this comment after I proposed Launchy+Ele and Prism also commented on it.

[Morning Tweet]

True, it is helpful to get townpoints off of a sinking ship when you've got to survive a while

[Morning Tweet]

Launchy + Ele is a possibility. Launchy keeps shading and calling out Ele but isn't pushing him and even used the rep as an excuse to vote me over the slot. The interaction they had looks kind of fake too, where Ele pushes Launchy over their "turn changing", implying they suddenly want to SPARE over FIGHT, when in reality it's just Launchy asking me who

I

want to SPARE since it's something I wanted to do but hadn't pushed for a candidate yet.
Launchy explains himself in an adequate way but Ele lays out the vote anyway, maybe because it'd be weird if they're both scum and for him to shade him but not vote him, like he feels obliged to do so.
I'm not as confident on that aspect as calling Ele scum though. His tone has been surprisingly friendly this game, and not that I'm saying Ele is friendly as a person, but his town game is usually very abrasive and standoffish. He'll speak his mind and won't care about appearances. In this game, he attempted an early pocket on me (yes, it's a meme, Prism, but it felt like an unnatural one - like he voted to SPARE me before I'd even made a single post). Then, he tries to pocket Pooky and even advocates SPARES on Pooky/Ele/I. I'll quote the posts after this.

Also, there's just the giving out a full readlist with only 2 or 3 null reads, but then saying he's feeling very lost in a later post which kinda contradicts where his headspace was at for that readlist post.

This is better than Pooky's of course but I stopped reading ISOs after I felt reasonably sure a player isn't scum so i didnt even get this far back

An important difference is probably that Hectic never really dropped the Puppy suspicion, whereas i don't really recall Pooky suspecting Puppy -- pretty sure Pooky had Puppy as hard town like a lot of us did

If you read Pooky's end of day 2 in a negative light he's really overselling the paranoia bit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes I wonder how Hectic knew not to drop the Puppy paranoia ^^

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Fine... if you insist, I guess I'll start working on that case. I would've made it overnight but you can't quote posts while the thread is locked.

I feel honored <3

[Morning Tweet]

yes I wonder how Hectic knew not to drop the Puppy paranoia ^^

True true he never actually would have had a shot at getting Puppy eliminated. Not that it really matters since I still think Hectic is town

could pretend the NK means nothing and kill Krazy, and Puppy was betting on the elimination not going through

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think the way he expressed his puppy thing at the end felt like he didn't really want puppy gone but wanted to look good for when puppy chara'd

[Hectic]

krazy quick towntell hard b4 hectic smooth talks me into voting you thx

seems like she is consolidating from 1 counter-wagon to another to save beeboy?

I was on 3 votes (all of them being serious), while Chara was on 2 votes (one of them being RVS) when she moved to Chara, Pooky. I quoted the VC + Launchy vote one me in the earlier post.

hmm yea you're right

i guess we're back to lynching redtea huh

This is taking ages. I'm only halfway through your ISO.

[Hectic]

whoops, ignore those, they didn't make the cut

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this is almost like waiting for Santa Claus to show up with Presents on Christmas Eve. <3

[Hectic]

Alright, here we go.

Reading through all of his open our hearts SPARE talk I'm not going to comment on, I was pushing for SPARES too early on, so I can't really talk about pushing bad strats being scum-indicative...
Being reminded of how much he hyped up both my town and scum game simultaneously is pretty funny though. Still don't know if that's hugely AI though. It might be slightly scum-indicative since Pooky is using it as a crutch to get into the game and find something to talk about which isn't alignment-related things, but meh, it's not really solid case material so whatever.

one of them should be pooky
one of them should be me
one of them should be hectic

btw this post is why i think elements is chara.

he very conveniently puts himself in the middle of the order - he can't be last because he'd die on D3 - so it's a sneaky middle of the pack insert - he doesn't put himself first because he's a very sneaky chara.

This is the first scum-indicative thing I saw. At the time, I found the reasoning here very strange, I think I mentioned it then at some point as well, but basically, it smells of scum!Pooky distancing with Ele, but the reasoning he's provided is just not believable. It's very unrealistic and surface level to assume that scum!Ele is trying to "sneak" himself into the middle of some SPARES because he's

Chara

trying to ascend. Pooky also for whatever reason is implying puttimg himself in the middle somehow makes it more sneaky, like Ele has put forth a plan of days 1 to 3 SPARES. The read just makes no sense, and it's because scum!Pooky is using it as an excuse to distance some with his partner.

Hectic - Town
Elements - Town
Chara - null
Prism - town
PookyTheMagicalBear - chara
catboi - town
Morning Tweet - town
Tayl0r Swift - eh
Lavender - who?
redtea - eh
Tanner - scum
CantLynchAPuppy - scum

This is just hilarious read from Elements because to believe Pooky-Chara / Puppy-Goon you'd have to think we are 2 of the worst mafia players in history. It makes no sense for puppy to say I give good vibes and be like that close to me especially considering that if I was the actual chara I'd flip on D1 if town goes the hurt route and there's pretty big chance town does go the hurt route.

If you take the time to think about how a chara would actually be behaving on D1 if the town is heavy against 4-spare, you'd either see less posting, distancing or some kind of weird in between - it would be nearly suicidal stupid to openly buddy a scum goon to the chara.

Alright, then we have this. This also pinged me at the time, but I couldn't really put my finger on one of the reasons for why until overnight. The post is worded in a very strange way, he's not talking to Ele directly, he's not just going straight into his thoughts with a "I find this hilarious because", he's starts with a "This is just a hilarious read from". I know some of you won't like this kind of read, but unnatural wording when talking about scum partners is a serious scumtell, because here, it looks like Pooky is

presenting

the read to an audience, like this is for all intents and purposes how it'll be viewed by others - which it is.

Okay, the other reason it's scummy is because Pooky does more tinfoil/weird reasoning to shade Ele for it. He assumes Ele is forming a team solve with the two scum exactly being Tanner/Launchy, and the

Chara

being Pooky. There is nothing to suggest Ele is putting forth a team solve with those being partnered, for all we know they could be individual reads - which is what I assumed at the time. Instead, Pooky focuses heavily on how Pooky/Chara/Puppy is ridiculous. It's more TMI-esque distancing.

I see pooky has changed his tune and started spouting BS when he finally faced real pressure, who could have seen that coming? (me)

just lol

i flip town, you flip tomm ok?

This is kinda scummy because of the "If I die today, you die tomorrow" thing. It's expressing false bravado, like he's not afraid to die, but the problem is, he only says this if he actually thinks catboi is scum for suspecting him, but there's nothing in his ISO before this which expresses and suspicion on catboi whatsoever.

Personally I think a player of Hectic's caliber just doesn't town-slip

lol
I love you, Pooky, but do you seriously believe that? This isn't part of the case, I just found it funny.

6) Could it be that Puppy is scum with Elements? Would be very interesting to re-examine the Puppy slot. I would be sad if my puppy friend was scum here.

This doesn't add anything to the discussions on Ele+Pups. It's just restating the fact it's been brought up, which is strange to mention if town!Pooky has no thougths on it, unless Pooky is scum and knows it's true so is more focused on it.

865 - Still weirded out by Pooky's fixation on Ele being exactly

Chara

if scum. Isn't

Chara

far less likely to give up, given the stakes? Besides that, Pooky has shaded Ele multiple times by this point of the game and has not yet placed his vote down at all, despite having what looks like a scumread there.

I mean I guess I can see where the Pooky-chara read from Elements comes from given that was when Pooky was doing nothing but pushing spares?

Still wish for so much more from the dude and the read list into "i'm lost" the next day is still sketchy

Ok but that's literally the same information he had when he said I should be spared lol.

It's just pretty wild his 180 from "Pooky should be spared" to "Pooky is the Chara" with like no transition or explanation. makes it hard to believe it comes from genuine town.

like post 535 he says I'm chara but his heal is on me and he doesn't hurt me - he only unheals me in like post 639. it feels like a reactionary read-list to my read-list where I call him Chara.

Why is Pooky saying this stuff while not voting for Ele?

Also it would be nice if instead of all just piling on Beeboy for being afk we actually took the time to put out our readlists - because if we're wrong on Elements - it would be very helpful to see Not-Chara's Readlist to try to figure out what it's 2 allies are.

Speaks for itself. Same thing Launchy did but here it's a more subtle desire to give the rep some time.

Spoiler:

Spare Votecount 1.9

Hectic--------------------------

beeboy-----------------------

Chara---------------------------

(2) Chara, catboi

Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

(1) PookyTheMagicalBear

catboi--------------------------

(1) Morning Tweet

Morning Tweet----------------

(3) Tayl0r Swift, Hectic, beeboy

Tayl0r Swift -------------------

Lavender ----------------------

redtea --------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------

(1) CantLynchAPuppy

Not sparing:

- (5) Prism, Lavender, redtea, Tanner, beeboy

Fight Votecount 1.9

Hectic--------------------------

(1) Prism

beeboy-----------------------

(3) Chara, Hectic, CantLynchAPuppy

Chara---------------------------

(2) redtea, Tayl0r Swift,

Prism --------------------------

(1) catboi

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

catboi--------------------------

Morning Tweet----------------

Tayl0r Swift -------------------

(1) beeboy

Lavender ----------------------

(1) Tanner

redtea --------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------

Not Fighting:

- (2) PookyTheMagicalBear, Lavender

Beeboy found the journey Chara was going to take very inspiring. But he thought that Chara needed a guardian fairy to serve as a kid-friendly character in this story.
"Cast magic light upon the ledge for him!" beeboy ribbitted, and kicked Morning Tweet into the air over the ledge. Although normally Morning Tweet had control over light and dark, in this costume she did not. She fluttered above the ledge, and it only seemed to highlight how dangerous the ledge was for someone who could not fly. She did make a nice center for the camera shot, though.

---

With 12 alive and unspared, it takes 7 votes to make a decision.
The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-09-15 15:27:24)

HURT: beeboy

deadline is closing in and this imo is our best option.

any1 thinks they have a better case on somebody else I will be happy to listen but let's get this done before deadline gets uncomfortably close.

He finally votes for the slot when it's pretty clear from the VC that there are no other viable wagons and this is gonna be the FIGHT due to deadline. My wagon is dead, and Chara's is obviously not happening, with one of the votes being from RVS.

my paranoid-keeps-me-awake at night scumteam is Hectic/Launchy

Oh

you

---------

If you look through day 2, Pooky spends an incredible amount of time posturing/debating on whether or not to side with me and vote for redtea's slot. It gets to the point where it's unreasonable for how long it's drawn out, but there are multiple times that Pooky expresses he is very close to voting redtea and agrees with me but never does, at the same time maintaining a constant amount of paranoia on me, and even setting up scumread/push me the next day if we did FIGHT the slot:

i'm hoping hectic's just right tho and it is suji cuz i do not want to go up against scum!hectic

It's also strange to say he hopes I'm "right", and if I'm not right, it means I'm scum, with no consideration of me being "wrong", despite him hoping I'm "right". You know what I mean. Probably.

we're gonna look so dumb when whoever is chara flips chara

HmM. Pooky being uncharacteristically pessimistic, or Pooky knowing the TRUTH?

Pooky makes it clear he does not want to vote me here for selfish reasons (love you, Pooky), implying he'd only vote me if someone else he trusted made the call:

However I am not pushing you because I love you and it would kill me if I was wrong on you and I pushed your ML so I'm gonna need you to either scumslip massively to put me at ease or let your innocent soul shine brightly through these dark skies and lift my heart into the right soulvibe.

Soon after this, I elaborate on my scumspects, putting both Launchy and more important Pooky in there:

This might look weird since I was just voting for yog, but sorting out my thoughts, I think I have Pooky, Lavender, Launchy, Krazy all below you now. I've liked your posts in the last couple of days.

Pooky has soulpocketed me though so I doubt I'll be voting for him any time soon &_&
Lavender has looked town but is here because there's less content than others which have looked town for a consistently longer amount of posts.
Launchy is here because day 1 stuff and pending.
Krazy is here for prior stated reasons on redtea/Sujimichi, but is dumb to push today.

And a while later? He is now trying to lead a FIGHT onto me anyway here, I suspect because he sees it wouldn't be too hard to push one through on in the current gamestate, and would be extremely helpful for scum!him given I'm one of the few suspecting him:

lets flip hectic

lets just flip hectic

this chameleon can't hide forever

HURT: Hectic

if I'm wrong forgive me :(

(Reading surrounding posts for him trying to case me) Also, I found it really weird at the time that Pooky was one of the few there that thought I could be

Chara

. Prism scumread me, but acknowledged there was no way I was

Chara

. Even Morning was starting to sheep the collective and scumread me, but she too tried to talk Pooky down here:

Hectic isn't Chara

Pooky replies with:

yes but if he's the deepwolf we win the game

He know this is inoptimal, but doesn't care. He wants me out because I'm sus of him.

im ready to proxy my vote off to prism or datisi and hectic's posting so far has made me feel more that he is scum tho I would be really feelsbad if he's not so I'm ok going with someone elses opinion at this point

HURT: noone

I wasn't trolling - the votes for hectic aren't there and I got cold feet after I thought about how bad I'd feel if Hectic actually flipped town :(

He goes back to claiming he doesn't want to flip me because he'd feel bad if he's wrong, but this only comes after the wagon attempts on me have been ultimately unsuccessful, which he actually acknowledges in 2805.

Alright, that's the Pooky side of the case. There's stuff to be highlighted from Launchy's ISO too, but no way am I doing that right now lol. Probably tomorrow.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

is your avatar sad because you knew you'd have to try to get a ML on your favorite teddy bear today? I am super touched and I wub you.

[Hectic]

I'm not sad, I'm just jaded. Or maybe I'm trying to cope with the fact that we have to FIGHT you to win this game :[

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's so beautiful Hectic I love it