Micro 972: E7 [Game Over!]

[joqiza]

I just googled "cat and dog show" and I'm not sure it's actually a real phrase but I just mean a performance lol. It's something one of my coaches used to say.

[Almost50]

Page 1:

- Joq could be scum with Nona (scum voting partner in RVS tell)
- Billy could be scum with Penguin (same as above)
- Lost is NOT scum with Penguin (game too small for asecond vote on partner on page 1)
- Dong is TOWN. (As per the scum PMs they have DAYCHAT, so mistaking the mod for a player is out of question)
- Billy switching off PP and unto Nona is questionable (another associative tell he may be scum with Penguin)
- 22 is weird, but nit "scummy" kind of weird.
- 23 is even weirder. I'd lean town on Joq, except the reasoning would be an insult to him.

Page 2:

- Penguin joining Billy on Nona is alarming. Gun-to-my head it's BP+PP for the scum team at this point.
- Joq unvoting Nona is either a town move or a partner move. In other words, Joq can only be scum if Nona is.

Page 3:

- 53 VERY bad post/response, considering Lost is likely Town. (I -of course didn't have a TR on him back then, hence the vote)

Page 4:

- 86 was definitely a joke (and not game-related). Just want to make that clear enough by now.

Page 5:

- 122 Last line is too LAMIST it's almost a scum claim (but it requires you to actually know BP to know what I'm talking about)

Page 6:

NOTHING

Page 7:

- 163 I stand by this still. By now I am ruling out Lost as scum completely.
- 165 makes me think Joq is very likely town, but it's STILL about Nona, so I will disregard
- 173 OK. I'll go on a limb and say Joq is Town here. Too much effort for scum!him. If I'm wrong, WELL DONE.

Page 8:

- 189 Another semi-scum-claim by Billy. (Again, you don't need to take my word for it, as I do have experience with him

as his scum partner

). HOWEVER, it also makes it unlikelt he is scum with Nona.
- At this point, the only viable scum pairs in my view are Nona/Billy Pilgrim, Nona/PenguinPower & Billy Pilgrim/PenguinPower (and still; gun-to-my-head I'd say it's BP+PP. If not, then it's BP+Nona)

Page 9:

NOTHING changed.

I also "think" I got BOTH our PRs pegged by now (I -of course- made no mention of it at the time9s) I did, so clearing someone at some point has NOTHING to do with them saying something I would consider a crumb or a hint)

VOTE: Penguin

IF I am correct, PP should be the Roleblocker here. (Unless it's him + Nona, in which case either could be the RB). This based on both level of activity and content in their posts comparison between PP & BP

@Joq: Happy now?? I aim to please!

[joqiza]

That's more like it.

[Almost50]

FTR, I didn't feel the need to request a PT, but I did PM the mod whom I thought were the PRs. I guess I'll find out post-game how many of my FOUR guesses were spot on (2 specific PR reads + 2 specific SR reads)

[joqiza]

UNVOTE:

[joqiza]

The observation about Dong is actually really solid. I originally read 18 as a joke, but looking at it again, it's entirely possible he actually thought Sirius was a player. Which, as Almost pointed out, makes him much less likely to be mafia.

[joqiza]

So the bad news is that you've hardclaimed VT.

The good news is that I feel decent about this. The Dong observation particularly. I'm not quite there on Lost, I don't think he's been scummy per se but his questions seem pretty basic and I don't really seem why him chilling on E-1 for a few pages is clearing. If you can get me there that would be great. Genuinely open to hearing your point of view.

I agree that a me/you/Dong/Lost townbloc puts Penguin/Nona/BP in the PoE, but I don't actually follow the SRs that far on either Penguin or BP. With Penguin, I sort of like his straightforward posting style, "Fair," and his statement about the nitpick. Just basic tonal stuff which seemed non-showy and he communicated himself clearly. With BP, it sounds like I need a better understanding of whatever meta you may have on him.

Also, how are you reading for scum PR? Just proclivity to bussing?

I actually appreciate this so thanks.

[Billy Pilgrim]

The observation about Dong is actually really solid. I originally read 18 as a joke, but looking at it again, it's entirely possible he actually thought Sirius was a player. Which, as Almost pointed out, makes him much less likely to be mafia.

You took that seriously?

[Lost]

i got town vibes from joqiza and pp's interaction earlier.

This is both a fence-sit and going with the flow. At least 3 people had stated a TR on joq by this time, and at least one stated a TR on PP

i don't see how its a fence-sit, and while i do see your point about it being a consensus read, that doesn't necessarily mean they're lazyscum. you could argue it that way, but it could also be them actually having that read and not feeling the need to explain it. i don't see any strong scum mindset here.

do you mean that an outside observer could not get as much info from the conversation despite that they can read every word of it as well?

oh i see. you mean unless lost has the same thoughts as penguin's regarding joqiza's thoughts early on he shouldn't have the same read.

These two posts accomplish nothing. The first is a question and the second is a reiteration of the answer Nona got for that question. Now what do we get from that? What does NONA get from it?? NOTHING.

i agree that this line of questioning is unhelpful, but i would argue 108 is pretty town given the slightly more condescending-ish tone she uses in 102. tonal read here

i like nona

hi nona what do you think about billy

could use some more analysis. i like his questions though, and his approach to joqiza on post 65 was nice.

Non-committal. (Hint: If Nona is Scum Pilgrim could very well be their partner)

P.S. Yes, I know I said I kind of TR Pilgrim, but that's an independent read and ignoring associatives because we didn't flip Nona yet.

pretty fair point here, although i still struggle to see how it's non-committal. if youre referring to how she barely explains her reads, then i'm inclined to think its her playstyle

penguin i sus over what i think is a lack of content despite having over two dozen posts. the only concrete stuff i had on him was his read on you.

regarding your case i agree that it might be unlikely they are a team. i don't think scum would interact with his partner this way.

A couple of people questioned the TRs on PP, so the read conveniently changed here. Also agrees to whatever joq had said (A50+PP isn't a valid team).

also pretty fair point here, especially the 180 on penguin

[joqiza]

@BP

18, or Almost's comment about it? I just said I originally read Dong's comment as a joke, but now think it might be serious.

[Lost]

sorry i meant id like to hear more reads/analysis from billy before i think on his alignment

because all ive seen so far is questions and interactions with others which is nai

questions and interactions are very often alignment indicative

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 played scum with me once when we didn't have daytalk. Him classifying LAMIST for me as a scum tell is like complete bullshit since to some degree its my playstyle. Remember that large normal where I claimed VT early on to get cleared? And I lolhammered someone once in a hydra with Hectic and so now I double check vote counts before putting a vote down.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@BP

18, or Almost's comment about it? I just said I originally read Dong's comment as a joke, but now think it might be serious.

Almost's comment about it.

[Lost]

nona has like a couple of completed games and is still holding a townie post title

What does "townie post title" mean here, btw?

its the thing on the left below the username. townie means <100 posts in mafia games if im not wrong

[Almost50]

I'm not quite there on Lost, I don't think he's been scummy per se but his questions seem pretty basic and I don't really seem why him chilling on E-1 for a few pages is clearing. If you can get me there that would be great. Genuinely open to hearing your point of view.

I don't really know how to explain it, but it boils down to experience. Most scum (especially the new generation) do not feel "at ease" being put @E-1, so they either become overly hostile, overly defensive, or turn to trolling. Well composed scum at this situation is rare, and especially so among the new generation (players who started playing 2018 or later)

[joqiza]

@BP

18, or Almost's comment about it? I just said I originally read Dong's comment as a joke, but now think it might be serious.

Almost's comment about it.

Did you not? What indicates that wasn't a serious read?

[joqiza]

Btw, I think Lost in 233 is basically capturing my thoughts on Nona right now. Nothing she's said to me has struck me as particularly town, and I noticed her weird reversal on Penguin as well. But for the most part I consider her a coin flip, albeit one that's becoming increasingly likely to flip scum as other people towntell.

[Lost]

UNVOTE:

still catching up

[Almost50]

With Penguin, I sort of like his straightforward posting style,

You don't know Scum!PP.

PP ia a player who "appears" not to be doing anything at all (as either alignment) but is very much a "criminal mastermind" when he needs to be. Give me some time and I'll link you a couple of his scum games. (remind me if I forget after I'm done catching up here)

[Almost50]

Also, how are you reading for scum PR? Just proclivity to bussing?

As I said, activity+substance. PP's posting is designed to make him survive longer than "his partner". Billy is being active and tackling many, making him more likely to be either wagoned or investigated. Nona (assuming she is scum with PP) is also inviting the Cop investigation to her over PP.

[joqiza]

I don't know if I locktown Lost as confidently as you do, but I agree that his reaction on E-1 is probably the "correct" response. The test isn't difficult enough for me to clear him off that alone, but I'll keep your view in mind.

I'll metadive people this evening when I'm off work. Clearly it's an element at play and I need to make the assessment for myself. Imma get sweaty for y'all.

Liking the energy in this thread a lot more now. It's not so much that I care about winning or losing so much as I want a dynamic game. My frustration boils over some times so sorry if I offend anyone.

[Lost]

Side note, I like the way dong answered my concerns about it, but ... im concerned because that's what I do as scum. I tend to interrogate the scumreads and like see if parts of it are valid. So im a bit confused how if you think im misrepresenting a sort of playstyle you have that makes me town.

I realize that I didn't vote there after the last votecount and this hasn't really given me a reason to townbin you.

VOTE: Dong

Also, I looked at that game with Umlaut, but didn't see what you were referring to. Can you point me to your back and forth? I'll admit I didn't read the whole game, I was more looking for your early posts because here you seemed to rocket the game out of RVS and I picked up in your town games that you tend to suspect people that do that.

hi billy i read this 4 times and my brain fell out of my ears

can you clarify:
"i tend to interrogate the scumreads and see the parts that are valid" - is this what you refer to when you say "im concerned because that's what i do as scum", and if so, where was this point brought up in your interaction with dong? if it isn't, then what are you actually referring to

what does not voting dong have to do with not townbinning nona(are you referring to nona?)

and...who is the whole last para directed to? dong?

[Lost]

i read 226 and my brain crawled back into my skull through my nostrils

i m happi

[Almost50]

Scum!PP 1
Scum!PP 2
Scum!PP 3

P.S. Sorry I can't provide a Micro as I hardly ever play those myself. This is maybe my 3rd or 4th over 5 years on MafiaScum.

[Lost]

A50 played scum with me once when we didn't have daytalk. Him classifying LAMIST for me as a scum tell is like complete bullshit since to some degree its my playstyle. Remember that large normal where I claimed VT early on to get cleared? And I lolhammered someone once in a hydra with Hectic and so now I double check vote counts before putting a vote down.

i don't think claiming vt is particularly lamist. also still don't get why you didn't vote dong when you said you wanted to. you could have just checked to see if he was e-1.