Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[shellyc]

While I think Titus and JV both played well, these are the posts that, IMO, won the game. These had me convinced JV was town as I took it as scum trying to PR hunt. I should have released this thought though after JV claimed and didn't get killed promptly. Damn.

didn’t mean for those interactions to be the final straw in lylo but

[Nero Cain]

someone, I think shelly?, said town was loaded and eh.....

maybe?

the 4 1/2 investigation roles seem about right. Glitch's role doesn't add a bunch of power though. I understand why Glitch would do what he could to survive but it directly lead to a much more powerful pr getting lynched. At first, I was "why is there no doc?" but I guess the whole point of the setup was that our watcher serves basically the same purpose and I guess a watcher/doc combo is too powerful.

MM's role makes this very swingy so like if he shoots more scum and they lose the scum is going to complain that the setup is unbalanced.

I don't think town was "stacked" but it might seem that way to me of the way things played out b/c town lost a good chunk of investigation power by d2. But also 10/6 ins't that far off from where I was thinking anyway 4 or 5 town prs seems low.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

GG mafia, especially JV.

[shellyc]

yeah JV carried us, that claim was really good

I could actually see Titus being shot by MM, wondering why that didnt happen

[Nero Cain]

if Pete doesn't qh d1 and 72 claims then he just gets shot? or maybe scum thinks there's a doc and doesn't shoot him?

[Nero Cain]

I kinda fee like MM should have tried to get lynched @ some point andused his venge.

[JacksonVirgo]

I kinda fee like MM should have tried to get lynched @ some point andused his venge.

What would be the benefit outside of just shooting who they'd plan to kill?

[Nero Cain]

he gets lynched wich means you have to shoot someone else and we get to see what happens.

[Titus]

Putting Venge on a Vigilante is stupid setup wise. A confirmed vig is conftown in normals and MM couldn't be SK. I have a few more thoughts on this setup but it was very much townsided.

[Micc]

These private threads have now been released:
Neighborhood Thread
Mafia Thread
Dead Thread

[Glitch]

Dead thread best post award goes to a50 lmao

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12156435

[Town looter]

Haha yep.

Turns out A50 is a bit of a twat, but a sharp player. Might read a few of his games.

[Town looter]

I have no words

What did you expect anyway? For me to magically get trusted and not get hammered later?

Did not expect you to self-hammer, especially when I was going to do some ISO'ing.

Also Titus, be on me. MM shoot within Ralph/Stan. Glitch choose who you want to neighbourize, I of course want myself in there but that might just be personal bias.

I think that's a default win for town.

If NEE flips town, Titus needs to take the shot. That way we get Titus flip, and one of our POE.

It's how we win (well, kind of, we will still have a somewhat difficult LYLO by my reckoning).

I'm looking at you MM

[Glitch]

Haha yep.

Turns out A50 is a bit of a twat, but a sharp player. Might read a few of his games.

He makes me pissed the fuck off a good bit but he's a badass scumhunter. Points for that lol

[Titus]

I still can't believe I lived after asking to be shot and the protown thing was to freaking shoot me.

The dead thread could be renamed the Why is Titus alive? thread. It was quite funny.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think I pushed against a Titus shot because I was gonna heal Titus. Maybe that stopped them uwu

[JacksonVirgo]

Thank you for everyone that played, I love every one of you (even you a50 uwu)

[mastina]

Hi I reviewed this game.

[Titus]

Hi mastina. Happy Cake Day.

Now, time for some honesty.

How did you think this was balanced?

Scum has only two PRs (even night watcher, loud vanilla cop) against 3 clearing roles (3 shot GS, n3 GS, Disloyal Roleblocker), an IC (the vig once claimed is unexecutable), a watcher (allows for follow the gunsmith/clears since scum have no way to bypass, PLUS it makes the even night watcher autoguilty), a motion detector plus neighborizer (has more multitasking than the scumteam and stops scum from lying about their actions). Plus the 3 shot GS was loud which meant the loud vanilla cop was CCed. Not even a rolecop to prioritize shooting the watcher.

Scum was really lucky all the PRs were outed/killed early because a loud rolecop can't investigate anywhere they want because they have to have a fakeclaim that justifies every visit. Even worse, it's only a vanilla cop.

Roll this setup 99/100 times town wins.

[Titus]

Oh I forgot to mention, town has more stopping power than scum.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Game Setup Analysis:
Town:
Watcher
Disloyal Roleblocker
3 Shot Loud Gunsmith
Vengeful Vigilante
Night 3 Gunsmith
Combined Neighborizer Motion Detector
VTX10

Mafia
Even Night Watcher
Loud Vanilla Cop
Goonx3

*Most of the town power roles have modifiers which make them less powerful.
*Scum vanilla cop is very helpful in determining who to night kill.
*Town to scum ratio is 16/5 which is balanced
*Vig has a good chance of hitting his own teammates.

I feel this is a balanced setup.

[Titus]

Most of the town power roles have modifiers which make them less powerful.
*Scum vanilla cop is very helpful in determining who to night kill.

Really? Is it the disloyal modifier that makes things less powerful by clearing whatever PR it visits? The venge is utility neutral since it should never enter play. The three shot being loud CCs a scum so that's not negative utility. The only nerf in the context of this setup was n3 gs and that's still not a nerf but just a gatekeeping.

Scum shouldn't have to depend on a vig shooting wrong. Balance is not made around 4 or 5 vig misses.

Second, a vanilla cop tells next to nothing. Great found a PR...are they the doctor? Or are they doc protected? Scum have zero way of knowing the utility of any given PR.

[Town looter]

With my inexperienced eye, I think the only thing that I would say is unbalanced is the Disloyal modifier on the roleblocker, but even then I am not sure.

Remember my PR will provide negative utility a lot of the time. Me turning it into positive utility was lucky.

If I had been run up to E-1, if Fwesnid had checked me or even if Glitch spotted me moving, I would have had to claim, and claiming Night 3 Gunsmith is not something that is likely to fly. Especially since you can add a bunch of Mod/Spec WIFOM around mafia Docs (you saw how Ydr was read, for example).

Similarly, Vengeful Vig hurt more than it helped, and was one of the many reasons we lost (no offence MM, I wouldn't have done any better).

I don't see Town winning this 99% of the time. I think it's slightly town-sided because of the disloyal modifier.

I do think it is very swingy based on skill though. All the PRs (except mine), and the scum NKs, can dictate a game if executed well.

[Nero Cain]

Sans the vig is this balanced? mostly @ Titus

[Titus]

Sans the vig is this balanced? mostly @ Titus

The vig actually gives scum a theoretical chance. Your role needed to be scum in exchange for my loud vanilla cop. Then it would be closer to balanced.

JV also would need to be a tracker, not watcher.