Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Chara]

and this also... *insanely* bothers me. we can also pose a different theorem:
- if tanner gave up his puppy push when he realized nobody is listening to him and decided to try to sort elsewhere where it was viable, it'd be towny
- if tanner decided to keep being tunneled on puppy and not try to sort anyone else and then tomorrow farm up the towncred from pushing confscum the whole day, it'd be scummy

I don't agree with this at all, even kinda

the whole reason Prism was freaking out yesterday was because that was *the day*

that was the day Chara is still alive and lynching chara can result in gamewin

and you're making it seem like you were hyper tunneled. you weren't. this is a misrepresentation of your day 2 trajectory

you said it was a spicy hot take, 300 posts later you basically asked him to give you a reason to unvote him, and then later you kinda just stopped

selling the narrative that that is a "tunnel" you broke out of seems pretty distant from what actually happened

i kind of glazed over it the first time but yeah, i don't understand what you're arguing in the quoted portion. why would it be towny if you gave up your puppy push? it wouldn't be. why would it be scummy if you stayed tunneled on... scum that would win us the game if he were eliminated?

[Krazy]

"outside looking in" refers to how it feels like you're sort of playing a different game than the rest of us. i don't know what it means yet, maybe it means you're the only one with your head screwed on correctly, but it's referring to things like the Tanner and Tweet suspicion.

I guess, I wasn't even sure I disagreed. I'm coming off a six month break from forum mafia and in that time I played a lot of video mafia and learned that my go-to approach is actually kinda aloof, at least more aloof than I realized it was before

[Isis]

Spare Votecount 3.1

Hectic--------------------------

Chara---------------------------

Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

(1) Hectic

Morning Tweet----------------

Lavender ----------------------

(1) PookyTheMagicalBear,

Krazy--------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

Not sparing:

- (6) Chara, Morning Tweet, Lavender, Krazy, Tanner, Prism

Fight Votecount 3.1

Hectic--------------------------

Chara---------------------------

Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

(2) Hectic, Morning Tweet,

Morning Tweet----------------

Lavender ----------------------

Krazy--------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

(1) Krazy

Not Fighting:

- (5) Chara, Prism, PookyTheMagicalBear, Lavender, Tanner

Hectic wanted to solve and pass the puzzle and get Nice Cream. Since Hectic could float, he was one of the actors better positioned to possibly win the prize. He could pass hundreds of red and dark spaces just by floating past.
There was a problem though. Whenever Hectic got at least half of the way there or so, he would get excited about what a good boy he was, and would wag his huge tail, slapping the ground and touching two dozen or so tiles - one of which was always a dark space that reset his progress, teleporting him back to start where he started again.
"Oh, look at how much Hectic wants it." PookyTheMagicalBear said to himself sympathetically.
The bear looked into the props that came with his costume to try to find a gift for Hectic that would help. He smiled when he found one, and also took a bit of ribbon to go with it.
"Hold still." After another teleported reset, PookyTheMagicalBear reached up to Hectic's tail and wrapped a ribbon around it, and secured a holiday bell to his tail.
"I hope this works.."
The humongous creature didn't really notice the added weight. He crossed the puzzle again, and this time when he got halfway there and his excitement started to build, he heard a jingle behind himself as his tail started to move. It caused him to excitedly turn in the air to find the sound, which pulled his tail further away and made it louder. Soon he was circling in an exciting chase for his own tail, but it was all horizontal and didn't touch any of the dangerous dark tiles.
"I'm not sure about the endgame here, but it is the longest time he's been out on the puzzle all at once," PookyTheMagicalBear optimistically explained to the other actors.

---

It takes five to make a decision. The deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-15 12:00:24)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you found the purple :3

[Prism]

god i can't wait til we're divorced and i steal the really good lamp

[Prism]

I'm basically onboard with Morning's plan, but I do really want to reread Pooky first.

My nerves are pretty shot for the day though, I neither Killed It nor Failed It, and am instead in an Unfortunate Unknown Medium, and I need to take time and relax and not do something that's going to stress me out.

[Prism]

i kind of glazed over it the first time but yeah, i don't understand what you're arguing in the quoted portion. why would it be towny if you gave up your puppy push? it wouldn't be. why would it be scummy if you stayed tunneled on... scum that would win us the game if he were eliminated?

I think what he's getting at that is that in another world where he sticks to his guns, he'd wind up being scumread for distancing.

Krazy posed the following ideas for sorting between a Day 2 distance and a Day 2 townpush on scum:

A) If X starts the day pushing Y-scum, but later backs off: X is scummy (D2 distance)
B) If X starts the day pushing Y-scum, and sticks to it and tries to build a wagon: X is towny (D2 legit push)

Krazy says Tanner fits into A.

Tanner is responding by proposing a new principle, which one might use to justify Tanner-scum iin a world in which he stuck to the Puppy push. This principle is:

1) In light of realizing a fight is a deadend (ie. will not happen), it is towny to look elsewhere for other appealing options.
(Conversely, it is scummy not to)

Applying 1) to Tanner's actual dayplay, we have:

A) If Tanner starts the day pushing Puppy-scum, but backs off when he realizes it is not viable and looks for somewhere people might agree: Tanner is towny (Day 2 legit push)
B) If Tanner starts the day pushing Puppy-scum, but continues even when he realizes it is not viable and does not look elsewhere: Tanner is scummy (Day 2 distancing)

The point being, here he's scummy for backing off when it wasn't happening. But someone might scumread him had he stuck to it, because it blatantly wasn't happening. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

[Prism]

There are all sorts of other gaps/possibilities here than the ones described, but I hope that helps clear up the points each is making at least.

[Prism]

It looks like you might reject that principle entirely, or think that Tanner didn't fit that mold (which requires

only

backing off when Puppywagon isn't viable-1. was it really not viable? 2. if it was, did he back off before it was known to be not viable?)

[Chara]

But someone might scumread him had he stuck to it, because it blatantly wasn't happening.

this was the part that hadn't clicked, thank you.

[Chara]

I'm basically onboard with Morning's plan, but I do really want to reread Pooky first.

My nerves are pretty shot for the day though, I neither Killed It nor Failed It, and am instead in an Unfortunate Unknown Medium, and I need to take time and relax and not do something that's going to stress me out.

take a break, you're so tense.
i'll take care of you. just-

wait, what's that? sorry, Isis is waving me over offstage. i'll be right back.

...

yeah, so, apparently my behaviour is "inappropriate" and "bordering on excessive, seriously, i'm trying to run a game here". no idea what that's about.

[Chara]

"outside looking in" refers to how it feels like you're sort of playing a different game than the rest of us. i don't know what it means yet, maybe it means you're the only one with your head screwed on correctly, but it's referring to things like the Tanner and Tweet suspicion.

I guess, I wasn't even sure I disagreed. I'm coming off a six month break from forum mafia and in that time I played a lot of video mafia and learned that my go-to approach is actually kinda aloof, at least more aloof than I realized it was before

i'm in a place where it's really hard to see Tanner as scum, even with the points you're making that i obviously see some merit in.
i'm looking back on Tanner's progression on Puppy, with the reminder that the wagon really wasn't going to happen (do you agree with this, in the first place?) and wondering why Tanner didn't push harder than he did. do you think he held back out of fear the wagon

would

get traction?

it's also interesting to see a scum Tanner who would openly defend Elements/beeboy on day 1, when the slot will iminently flip, and then the next Day change tactics to distancing from partner Puppy. i don't know, i don't remember when he got the heat for the day 1 scum defense, i only remember when i started wondering about it and it was after Tanner's Puppy suspicion.

i'm confusing myself with that timeline, if i'm being honest i townread Tanner for the way he responded to my read on him day 2 and for consistent scumhunting, not to mention well-placed emotional reactions to game events. he's been up and down for me but ultimately pretty up.

i really don't think you've made any mistakes in your play here if you

are

scum, and that's giving me pause in and of itself.

[Krazy]

I mean it's true that puppy didn't have a lot of momentum at the start of the day, but I guess for Tweet to call Tanner town off the progression I'd like to see the part where it seems that Tanner either tried or seemed to really want Puppy to happen because I kinda don't see it

[Prism]

I'm express horror at the fact that a Chara-scum thinks they have to hit on/emotionally seduce me for 140 pages to win the game

I express horror at the idea someone might feel obligated to do this to win the game, but a bit of pride that it hasn't really worked for the most part

I will respect the dedication but also I hope you realize by now this definitely did NOT help your case and that you DIDN'T need to do this

[Krazy]

i'm looking back on Tanner's progression on Puppy, with the reminder that the wagon really wasn't going to happen (do you agree with this, in the first place?) and wondering why Tanner didn't push harder than he did. do you think he held back out of fear the wagon would get traction?

I kinda don't honestly, and I guess what I mean by that is that I don't really see how Tanner reached a point where he understood the reasoning or logic at a deeper level on why Puppy was town from the people defending him, like he said he thought puppy was scum but never really used that as a metric for solving the game or looking for associatives *aside* from saying he didn't think I was scum with puppy who he now wants to push anyway

like if that's his nighttime hottake why doesn't it feel like he does anything with it I guess?

like in a way his play toward puppy kinda reminds me of how I approached dannflor in titus vs pine. Like I pushed tanner for pushing puppy yesterday because I didn't really think he had a very townie case at the time, and so obviously I was wrong there but I kinda feel like that doesn't make tanner more town. Instead I feel like I was just catching Tanner for distancing Puppy because the distancing wasn't convincing and I hadn't processed that Puppy was also scum yet. In that game I got pushed a lot for accusing Dannflor because people didn't like my case but I eventually managed to get townread for it. Which is kinda what I'm saying--I feel like Tanner is playing this game in pretty much the exact manner I would be doing so if I was scum

[Krazy]

Can I seduce both of you not for anything having to do with the game but just because now that you're talking about it it sounds fun?

[Prism]

Yeah let's curb the PDA until postgame

I do not want the thought of someone feeling like they have to jokingly hit on/romance me in order to win the game on my conscience

P-Edit: alright alright, hit me with your best one liner

[Krazy]

i really don't think you've made any mistakes in your play here if you are scum, and that's giving me pause in and of itself.

this is really funny but it makes me feel like you play with people like boon too much

[Chara]

I'm express horror at the fact that a Chara-scum thinks they have to hit on/emotionally seduce me for 140 pages to win the game

I express horror at the idea someone might feel obligated to do this to win the game, but a bit of pride that it hasn't really worked for the most part

I will respect the dedication but also I hope you realize by now this definitely did NOT help your case and that you DIDN'T need to do this

all of this and yet you're too fearful to confront the truth, that this has nothing to do with the game, and that i would never compromise my integrity to even think of making half of these posts directed to you if i was scum here.

the

full

truth, that i've been nothing but sincere this whole time. that's where you should derive your horror.

[Krazy]

Well you're one of the most articulate, dedicated players left on this site and that avatar is super hot

I don't think that's a cheesy enough one-liner to be humorous but it is the truth

[Chara]

Yeah let's curb the PDA until postgame

I do not want the thought of someone feeling like they have to jokingly hit on/romance me in order to win the game on my conscience

P-Edit: alright alright, hit me with your best one liner

whoops, i already posted it.
i'll save the rest for postgame so you know i'm sincere.

[Krazy]

Ooh I'll try Chara next

Chara you're one of the chillest people I have ever met anywhere ever, offline or on. You are a beacon of calm in a world that is increasingly tumultuous and for that I love you

[Chara]

i really don't think you've made any mistakes in your play here if you are scum, and that's giving me pause in and of itself.

this is really funny but it makes me feel like you play with people like boon too much

in what way?

i meant that as a reason against you being scum, not one for, if that wasn't clear.

[Krazy]

btw that's all true even if somehow one of you is like a super deepwolf. If either of you do flip scum this game I would only say that I desperately wish more people on this site played scum like you

even though you're still probably both just town :3

[Krazy]

i really don't think you've made any mistakes in your play here if you are scum, and that's giving me pause in and of itself.

this is really funny but it makes me feel like you play with people like boon too much

in what way?

i meant that as a reason against you being scum, not one for, if that wasn't clear.

ah I was taking it the other way. If it was flipped then I would say playing with Boon gives the impression that people are only town when they're scummy LOL