Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Chara]

i'd probably be insulted if you genuinely think that "hilariously bad scum theatre" is how you'd catch me, but if this is genuine i just do not have the energy to begin fighting you on it after what we already went through.
figure yourself out.

[Chara]

that reads a lot harsher than intended, it's not meant to be.

[Prism]

If you're town, I deserve that and the negative comments, it's fine.

Do I enjoy putting you through the emotional wringer? No. Do I have an obligation to read and give my opinion on what's in front of me, without pausing to think how foolish/stupid/bad I'll feel if I'm wrong? Yes.

I will gladly accept responsibility for being wrong and for annoying you with my paranoia/waffling. My other comments about you are sincere, and have nothing to do with how well/terribly I've played this game. I'd rather keep them separate, and again revisit in the postgame.

[Prism]

I still have plenty of the day left to read, in any case.

[Chara]

i just find it hard to see how you're reading this as scum theatre and not Puppy buddying, which he continued to do with the Elements wagon.

[Chara]

we could kill everyone except you, me, Tanner, and Lav if u want (´･ω･`)

Scum's gotta be in Pooky/Chara/Hectic. definitely.

Why do you think Chara/Puppy/Element's master plan is to have both of them bus Elements early? That almost single-handedly causes them to lose. Maybe they thought the slot would recover but it rly didnt

what changed?

[Morning Tweet]

idk im appeasing Prism's paranoia of you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Hectic

I was re-reading your ISO today for like the 4th time today and it reminded of how much I like and appreciate you and I know you haven't been feeling so hot about playing mafia with us recently so here's an extended version of Snowy because I know you like that song and now you can listen to it without clicking to repeat it.

<3

[Prism]

Up through page 22 it is very, VERY clear, to me at least, that scum did not anticipate Elements getting flipped Day 1.

Spoiler: Posts

puppy:

39 actually kind of pinged me hard when he made it? Just this big pile of setup questions out in the open to start things off, that triggered my gut along with the early snap townread of Tanner in 48 for a post I didn't feel was particularly telling. Tone of 62 actually kind of funny/good, though? Light assessment. I don't really like 139 though. The comment of "good vibes" from pooky just is way weird and I don't care for him asserting he's town this way. Main suspicion just sheeping onto Chara's Elements vote in 155/161 besides that doesn't have much else. Response to Hectic's questioning in 213 reads a tad overdefensive? Really very buddy-buddy in 234. I definitely do not townread CLAP. In fact the ISO mostly recharged my early gut-level suspicion.

but i did read this! it's always fun to read gossip about yourself. fyi my elements vote is semi-serious now, it's more than sheeping chara (actually i think she made the point first and technically i voted first?) anyways, i think i have a decent reason for voting elements if you want to hear it (you want to hear it don't you squidward)

]
Sure, hit me.

Okay!

It started with Chara's observation in 160 that elements is talking about sparing, but isn't really looking for spares. Like, he still isn't, btw, he's just sort of moved on since everyone is over sparing. But where's the passion, does he look like he's trying to town hunt at all?

Ok that was old stuff but then there's my argument (?) With him around 196. He sort of decides that my asking about spares is scummy. Uh...? He doesn't posit why this is scummy, he just asserts that I'm "changing my tune" and after a respectable distance he parks his vote on me (and hasn't done anything with it?)

Maybe this is weak but it's only D1 and I'm fine with this read and would wagon him for it

FWIW Pooky I think your early game is more town with both flips even if it's still not great, Hectic was right about some of the pocketing/sparing garbage early.

I also think Hectic is town, too, even though I can't see it in these posts yet.

[Prism]

That or they were really betting on leveraging these early Puppy posts into a Puppyspare Day 2 which would be incredibly bizarre given how established genocide was by this point

[Prism]

sparing garbage early.

by ele

[Prism]

-puppy, and this one was less cute.

hectic can see the future

[Prism]

Hectic has really committed to Ele-push by 686. I think this slot is pretty town.....even though there are things I still hate.

Pooky's engagement with catboi still reads roughly, I knew that was coming but reading into it is so hard. 610 is still constantly assuming the worst-and is at times a bit deceptive (For example, while quoting catboi's 671 he cuts the actual criticism of catboi's out, which to be fair is snarky/dismissive rather than directly making cat's point, then acts like there's nothing there.) He also gets caught up in the weeds a bit too much in places like 684

Overall I think this slot is still town? Reading into the cat engagement gives me a headache though just because of how aggressive+predetermined the answers are on Pooky's end

[Prism]

By the EOD Day 2 I was also just pretty convinced that if Hectic was scum he was Chara given the spares, the buddying around Day 1, and the toothless spare vote on Morning. Now that he's confirmed not Chara, I'm left with not liking the objectivity of the initial Pooky post (V. natural as town though), the timing of the Ele-push (More suspect), the progression on me early Day 2 (still pretty trash imo), and working backwards from Suji-scum.

I dunno. Maybe this slot is still scum but at this point I think his method of getting reads this game has really, really just grated on me. His continued pushes on Elements rather than trying to setup elsewhere, and his interactions with Puppy, and his defenses of Tayl0r/Lav, both just point me to him probably being town. I'll still follow up on the Puppy progression by him, though.

[Prism]

Chara, a player very dependent on drawing support from their partners, getting a morale boost immediately on beeboy replace in and showing back up after disappearing for awhile+as catboi pointed out, giving IIoA in their previous thread forays. 727

Hm.

[Prism]

734 I've taken note of when reading through Chara's ISO.

I never realized this comes immediately after beeboy rep-in.

This game is over, I'm still reading but I'm voting. I'm pretty sure this is the end of the line.

HURT: Chara

[Prism]

All of Page 30/31 are Chara sorting redtea and pressing for more attention there. This is better than plausible as scum, it's absolutely brilliant. This is easily the best play as scum, and it's not even close.

It wants to drum up interest elsewhere to save Ele, but it also needs to avoid being tied too tightly to saving the other goon. (If they vote Hectic and Ele gets flipped, they're in a horrible position. If Hectic-Ele get consecutively flipped, they're also in a terrible position). redtea is a bad candidate in that me/cat are both currently townreading them, but a great candidate to avoid deeper scrutiny of motivations no matter who winds up flipping. Compare that to a direct LHF push like Lav/Taylor.

We'll see how its stance on LHF fights evolves as the stakes get higher.

[Prism]

765 on the same page have Puppy swapping to Hectic, fresh on the beeboy replace-in and the Chara push onto redtea.

I am now very sure that this game is over.

[Chara]

i suppose it wouldn't matter for me to point out that i'd only get that morale boost if my scumpartner was in the scumthread and having a discussion with me about the game, which requires a level of commitment to the thread beeboy never had. not to mention Puppy would have always been there.

i thought Tweet's reply to me was pretty good, i didn't expect her to outright say she was being appeasing. could be confbias, i'll never scumread her anyway.
i'm not convinced of Krazy town at all but if Tweet's so confident i guess it's fine, it's not like i have a case and our interaction wasn't that bad.
i feel more strongly now that Lavender is definitely not the last scum.

[Prism]

Is that true? You've played multiple games with beeboy and they're a stronger player.

[Chara]

All of Page 30/31 are Chara sorting redtea and pressing for more attention there. This is better than plausible as scum, it's absolutely brilliant. This is easily the best play as scum, and it's not even close.

It wants to drum up interest elsewhere to save Ele, but it also needs to avoid being tied too tightly to saving the other goon. (If they vote Hectic and Ele gets flipped, they're in a horrible position. If Hectic-Ele get consecutively flipped, they're also in a terrible position). redtea is a bad candidate in that me/cat are both currently townreading them, but a great candidate to avoid deeper scrutiny of motivations no matter who winds up flipping. Compare that to a direct LHF push like Lav/Taylor.

We'll see how its stance on LHF fights evolves as the stakes get higher.

this is kind of funny. picking who to push based on the thread environment, based on the ideal candidate to save my partner, isn't something i think of. if i'm scum i push redtea because it feels right and like the natural thing to do because of the slot's posts. i don't make decisions like this.

[Prism]

Will do more investigating to see how excited you'd be to see them but I think that alone is probably enough.

[Prism]

All of Page 30/31 are Chara sorting redtea and pressing for more attention there. This is better than plausible as scum, it's absolutely brilliant. This is easily the best play as scum, and it's not even close.

It wants to drum up interest elsewhere to save Ele, but it also needs to avoid being tied too tightly to saving the other goon. (If they vote Hectic and Ele gets flipped, they're in a horrible position. If Hectic-Ele get consecutively flipped, they're also in a terrible position). redtea is a bad candidate in that me/cat are both currently townreading them, but a great candidate to avoid deeper scrutiny of motivations no matter who winds up flipping. Compare that to a direct LHF push like Lav/Taylor.

We'll see how its stance on LHF fights evolves as the stakes get higher.

this is kind of funny. picking who to push based on the thread environment, based on the ideal candidate to save my partner, isn't something i think of. if i'm scum i push redtea because it feels right and like the natural thing to do because of the slot's posts. i don't make decisions like this.

The weird thing is that I completely believe you, from a scum perspective. You don't think of the game like me.

You might have come to it intuitively but it was absolutely brilliant.

[Chara]

Is that true? You've played multiple games with beeboy and they're a stronger player.

i like beeboy as a player, but i don't have any strong feelings about them. though that isn't really criteria for being a happy scumplayer with them, i met Farkran and Hopkirk for the first time in the scumthread and got along great with them.
but again, who it is doesn't really matter. unless you think beeboy was being a lot more active in the scumthread than here, i guess.

[Prism]

I don't think my argument depends on them posting in thread at all. You might have specifically cited being dependent on chatting with partners to boost morale, but a stronger player you're familiar with repping into what was previously a dead axolotl in the water is more than enough to spark some hope.