Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[shellyc]

PAGETOP

[duppin]

for what it is worth i think it is perfectly fine to lim today, but i would personally prefer not to simply due to me being very concerned about some of my reads so reducing the pool would obviously help with that

[PlusJOYED]

i shot my shot and i missed I'm so sorry mundi. A game happened before where I had the chance to hammer scum (my first game on site) but after I expressed intent town backed off and I ended up being elimed as town.
to be fair your iso was pretty scummy
hmmm maybe a no lim would be best today considering its lylo
I think shelly is town still. Shelly woulda hard pushed me as scum daystart for my hammer on mundi
I also do think scum would try to push an elim against me here, suprised that hasn't happened.
So rn shelly, hectic are my townpool.
I could definitely see dave as scum and that's my main guess rn.
we may have a 4th pr, but its unlikely there are tfn, rolestopper, and gunsmith. I would think since theres a maf doc maybe another weak role? But that would mean like 3 investigatives. I just don't think mechanically it makes sense to have a maf doc and only 1 weak role and no town killing. If maf can't die at night its a very limited use.
I do think if we have a pr that's able to confirm or deconfirm anyone as town/scum (like a weak role) its worth massclaiming. Otherwise no
bugspray kill makes sense too, since bugs was soft confirmed
so rn im at:
town: shelly, hectic
im town
that leaves uno, dave, and duppin. Of those my first guess would be davez/duppin.

town

[shellyc]

[quote="In post 3502, PlusJOYED"A game happened before where I had the chance to hammer scum (my first game on site) but after I expressed intent town backed off and I ended up being elimed as town.[/quote]
newbie 2023 moment when I hammered ducky = best moment on site still
one of my skills as scum is miseliminating plus

[shellyc]

i shot my shot and i missed I'm so sorry mundi. A game happened before where I had the chance to hammer scum (my first game on site) but after I expressed intent town backed off and I ended up being elimed as town.
to be fair your iso was pretty scummy
hmmm maybe a no lim would be best today considering its lylo
I think shelly is town still. Shelly woulda hard pushed me as scum daystart for my hammer on mundi
I also do think scum would try to push an elim against me here, suprised that hasn't happened.
So rn shelly, hectic are my townpool.
I could definitely see dave as scum and that's my main guess rn.
we may have a 4th pr, but its unlikely there are tfn, rolestopper, and gunsmith. I would think since theres a maf doc maybe another weak role? But that would mean like 3 investigatives. I just don't think mechanically it makes sense to have a maf doc and only 1 weak role and no town killing. If maf can't die at night its a very limited use.
I do think if we have a pr that's able to confirm or deconfirm anyone as town/scum (like a weak role) its worth massclaiming. Otherwise no
bugspray kill makes sense too, since bugs was soft confirmed
so rn im at:
town: shelly, hectic
im town
that leaves uno, dave, and duppin. Of those my first guess would be davez/duppin.

town

yay you're at the same solve as me, I agree with all of this plus is so town

[shellyc]

see here, here, here for me miselimming plus in almost all my scumgames

[PlusJOYED]

shelly, given what we know about the setups power so far (weak tfn, rolestopper, gunsmith, and maf doctor) do you think there is another town pr?
I ask because I'm waiting for a claim but I unsure if we'll get one + how likely scum will fakeclaim here

[Hectic]

We either no launch, or massclaim if we're launching. You always massclaim before a launch that could potentially end the game.

Optimal play here would be no launch, you should always no launch on even numbers, even if you have no PRs - I feel pretty strongly about this as a standard practice thing. Even though it might mean I probably just get killed, I don't mind because I'm sick right now (got covid again), so I'll be on low power mode.

I like duppin's suspicion of me based on pointing our bugspray's clear. In reality, I am aware of how incredibly launchbaity town!bugspray is, and I wanted to make sure it wouldn't happen in this game, because even despite that Norwee post, I could see it happen based on what bugspray posted (no offense, love you).

I still want to say UNOwen isn't scum for the way he voted with Noraa on bugspray on day(?), and his self-meta evidencing he usually tries to stay away from his partners, voting on opposite wagons if anything.

That leaves [Plus, Dave, duppin, shelly]. I agree with the general sentiment that Dave + Plus would be really weird and suicidal if it was the case. The world in which they take that quickhammer is one in which they're really afraid Mundi can turn the reason on themself around, and then they're in the firing line, which is an okayish theory.
Thing is, dave's vote almost

intentionally

looks scummy with the unannounced L-1 and lack of reasons. Like, you often see when scum quickhammer together, they still give a bunch of reasons just in case it would fail. But Dave didn't bother, probably because he wasn't expecting Plus to hammer it, so didn't realise how bad it would look or care to make it look a little better. Plus was aware it was a hammer when he voted, so there's no reason for scum!Dave to leave out the L-1 bit for example.

Plus, why did you hammer without caring for a claim from Mundi?

shelly, why did Dave's unannounced L-1 shock you so much, but Plus's hammer left you unphased?

[Hectic]

Dave who do you think is scum?

My current scumreads are Noraa and Mundivore.
Slight scumlean on you.

I had a scumread on Mundivore. Never got much opportunity to elaborate.

Is this all you have to comment on Dave? What are your scumreads now?

[PlusJOYED]

I had a very strong suspicion that mundi was scum after reading his iso. I thought it would be better to hammer there then give them a chance to change the wagon with their partner if the solve wasn't (mundi,dave) so it wouldn't result in a mislim.

[duppin]

We either no launch, or massclaim if we're launching. You always massclaim before a launch that could potentially end the game.

Optimal play here would be no launch, you should always no launch on even numbers, even if you have no PRs - I feel pretty strongly about this as a standard practice thing. Even though it might mean I probably just get killed, I don't mind because I'm sick right now (got covid again), so I'll be on low power mode.

I actually think it is a little more complex than that. I think if there is a universal townread or someone who is pretty much conf town or something like that then it is (generally) better to go for a lim, but when there isn't then I think it is better to skip. I do not believe there is anyone at this point with a strong presence or someone I trust enough to be capable of leading town which is why I said that this might mainly be for selfish reasons but I prefer not limming anyone simply because I want the pool to be reduced.

Now as the for town leader I will also say this: I feel that this was how you played day 1 especially earlier on hectic. It felt to me like you were trying to control town and as I thought your posts were really townie I thought it was fine to let you take that role but I feel you have dropped a bit off - you're not really trying to push in a direction but has more so just commented on stuff and asked questions but there is a lack of push I think which concerns me because it kind of goes against my initial day 1 read of your playstyle and makes me fear a deep wolf. This might not be totally fair but I just can't shake this feeling; if you are town I expect you to try to take a more leading role today

[duppin]

Also I hope you feel better as soon as possible and I obviously understand that it might affect your play

[Hectic]

Sometimes the UTR turns out to be a wolf though, which is why it's always optimal to no launch. I just had a large game in mylo where I convinced everyone to no launch because I wasn't sure about the person everyone thought was town, and lo and behold, they didn't die in the night and claimed a guilty on me (I was town). I got mislaunched but at least we stood a chance there rather than losing for sure in the mylo.

I've felt burnt out and less enthusiastic about mafia across the whole site, duppin, so don't associate changes in my motivation with being relevant with my alignment, because it really isn't.

I was thinking shelly and Plus for a bit there because of shelly's contrast in treating dave's L-1 vote and Plus's hammer, and her heavy defence of him here, but then I reminded myself of the shelly and Jacko interactions which are just never SvS £_£
Still want to hear reasoning from you though, shelly.

[Hectic]

Also I hope you feel better as soon as possible and I obviously understand that it might affect your play

Thanks

[duppin]

Sometimes the UTR turns out to be a wolf though, which is why it's always optimal to no launch. I just had a large game in mylo where I convinced everyone to no launch because I wasn't sure about the person everyone thought was town, and lo and behold, they didn't die in the night and claimed a guilty on me (I was town). I got mislaunched but at least we stood a chance there rather than losing for sure in the mylo.

It does but usually games like these are already lost at that point anyway, but yeah point is it can be a bit more complex but probably not worth talking about

I've felt burnt out and less enthusiastic about mafia across the whole site, duppin, so don't associate changes in my motivation with being relevant with my alignment, because it really isn't.

that could definitely be true and as I also said I do feel like it might be unfair for me because it could be me pushing you into a role you perhaps werent looking for

I was thinking shelly and Plus for a bit there because of shelly's contrast in treating dave's L-1 vote and Plus's hammer, and her heavy defence of him here, but then I reminded myself of the shelly and Jacko interactions which are just never SvS £_£
Still want to hear reasoning from you though, shelly.

I went over shelly and noraas interactions last night because bugs pushed shelly+noraa, however to me at least it does not really feel like partner behaviour but it is possible i just dont know how to read all the spam.

i have the slight benefit of knowing i am town though so from my point of view i know assuming its a 3 man scum team that 2 mafia voted on Mundivore but the problem is that pretty much all of the votes/behaviour around the votes look pretty bad so its difficult for me to read into it

[Hectic]

My first night impressions were that Plus was obviously scum for the lolhammer, and that it came with the benefit of linking himself with town!Dave if we did launch Plus the next day.

When I saw shelly defending I was seriously thinking it must be the solve, but now I've seen the Jacko/shelly interactions again, and shelly's heavy defence gives me pause.

[Hectic]

If you look through Plus's ISO, he doesn't actually explain why he scumread Mundi or give any independent reasons, he just thinks Mundi is strongly scum and says he thought there was an "agenda pushed there"

personally
my solve is looking like mundi/dave and their team is in shambles
mundi's day 2 iso upon reread also looks pretty bad, i think there was an

agenda pushed there

his day 1 play did kinda remind me of how he was when he was a tracker in that game.

What agenda, Plus?

[duppin]

Regarding plus I need to look this up but I did try to start a wagon on him day 1 and I recall noraa defending him several times by calling him mislimbait and saying his play was standard "plusiness" or something like that. I can't remember exactly how it went down so I might be misremembering it, so i'll try to find it

[duppin]

btw this is wifom and its meaningless but i still like to say it, there is no way i would ever kill bugs after they said i was lock town for them

[Hectic]

Sigh, I'm now in the mindset of "I have to force myself to solve and do some ISO reading or they're going to be sus of me because I'm not doing as much as I used to", which is quite unpleasant and makes this feel a lot more like an obligation rather than something that's fun. I'm not going to force myself, sorry, I'll just do what I feel like doing

[duppin]

okay so i found it, this was when i started a wagon on plus

im going to do this for now actually
VOTE: PlusJOYED

norwee and tayl0r immediately follow up with a vote each, noraa then posts this:

should we claim the masons right now? i get the feeling we got masons

what in the fuck. don't fucking out more prs.

VOTE: bugs
VOTE: bugs

I don't give two shits if we have masons but don't ask them to out wtf

and as tayl0r points out in 2170, it was a weird progression

I think it is possible noraa was deflecting. She did not acknowledge the wagon we started at all and instead immediately voted elsewhere for very questionable reasons

[Hectic]

I had a very strong suspicion that mundi was scum after reading his iso. I thought it would be better to hammer there then give them a chance to change the wagon with their partner if the solve wasn't (mundi,dave) so it wouldn't result in a mislim.

Literally the entire game was set on killing Mundi. UNOwen asked "does anyone disagree that Mundi should be tomorrow's elim?" or something along those lines the previous day even, and literally no one objected. There's no reason to believe or fear the vote was suddenly going to swing and people would change their minds, enough to cause you to end the day immediately like that. I'm struggling to believe it.

[Hectic]

Oo, that's good. Noraa not commenting on the Plus wagon at all and focusing on bugspray is really partner-indicative.

[duppin]

dave then catches up, but does not acknowledge the plus wagon either in 2177

Norwee what's the best wagon today besides plus?
I don't want a plus lim today. I haven't yet determined if I think he's LHF here or scum here.

this looks questionable as well in hindsight

[duppin]

i keep going back to the dave/plus being the last two and it really is the most simple solve i think but does feel a bit too easy, but this is definitely wher i am at