Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[Cabd]

VOTE: Bell

Woke up because my subconscious wanted this before I drift back off. Something is wrong here.

Dream crumb lol

I just point this out because there was a part of me that was a bit suspicious of the dream explanation, which I know is silly. But scum have claimed dreams before and people tend to think those are little indicators that someone is town, and I was like is Cabd just planting this in his iso to look town. It's partially silly because nobody is going to follow him on a dream, so if Cabd scum really wants to get Bell lynched he's going to have to do something more than a dream.

Anyway with this and the post where he says he woke up and still felt good about the vote make this feel like it was something real, and my silly thoughts were silly.

The stronger argument to me is that Town-Cabd once dragged me along in our hydra to fake a daycop guilty in a game, based on a dream. I didn't know the basis at the time or I might have dug my heels in.

From his posts, it looked like he expected me to be able to save him if he went there this time and it blew up.

You wouldn't have gone along anyways?

[Syryana]

- have i once again wrongly inflicted misery on Scheherazade?

i was very proud of this and the intended audience did not give it the recognition i wanted

I laughed.

[Tammy]

I did not laugh

He voted me

He gets no laugh

[petapan]

thank you for validating me

[Cabd]

thank you for validating me

Repayment by means of engagement on my reads and you stated disagreement with placements on them?

[fferyllt]

VOTE: Bell

Woke up because my subconscious wanted this before I drift back off. Something is wrong here.

Dream crumb lol

I just point this out because there was a part of me that was a bit suspicious of the dream explanation, which I know is silly. But scum have claimed dreams before and people tend to think those are little indicators that someone is town, and I was like is Cabd just planting this in his iso to look town. It's partially silly because nobody is going to follow him on a dream, so if Cabd scum really wants to get Bell lynched he's going to have to do something more than a dream.

Anyway with this and the post where he says he woke up and still felt good about the vote make this feel like it was something real, and my silly thoughts were silly.

The stronger argument to me is that Town-Cabd once dragged me along in our hydra to fake a daycop guilty in a game, based on a dream. I didn't know the basis at the time or I might have dug my heels in.

From his posts, it looked like he expected me to be able to save him if he went there this time and it blew up.

You wouldn't have gone along anyways?

I dunno! Maybe? You were mod-confirmed town to me by virtue of our role PM, and I owed you for moving our vote of scum in errrantparabola's game. I thought you were using something from your meta binder. But the overriding factor was errantparabola's game.

[petapan]

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

Me too!

dammit we crossposted and then my browser went out and I lost my post.

It wasn't anything great, but it is apropos to this post so I'll just rewrite it as a reply.

I've got some free time today so I'll actually be able to read this game mostly undistracted and not while also trying to work. Before my actual read, I've got working town reads on midwaybear, ffery, cabd, sryry. I don't even know why on midwaybear though; I just remember liking this posts.

I was looking at the playerlist last night and I realized that I don't actually have active suspicions on anyone*. Some pings here and there which has me wondering if it's setup related or if scum are in the people that I just haven't seen posting much? I don't know; hopefully a reread fixes that.

Although! If you're vote on me was serious, it's wrong, but I think you'll realize that once I have some thoughts on the game after actually reading it. I hope. I hope I have thoughts.

well the process was raelizing i don't actually remember anything about how you play, which made me realize i didn't remember anything you've done this game, which led me to read back on you and realize i don't townread you and i'm not sure why anyone does. i didn't have any serious intentions of attempting to wagon you (i was going giving you and diamondsentinel the "first game off a hiatus" d1 pass regardless of my read), but felt the need to express that read in a visible fashion

[petapan]

thank you for validating me

Repayment by means of engagement on my reads and you stated disagreement with placements on them?

i'll get back to you but kinda want to see what bell says in his catchup

[Tayl0r Swift]

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

Me too!

dammit we crossposted and then my browser went out and I lost my post.

It wasn't anything great, but it is apropos to this post so I'll just rewrite it as a reply.

I've got some free time today so I'll actually be able to read this game mostly undistracted and not while also trying to work. Before my actual read, I've got working town reads on midwaybear, ffery, cabd, sryry. I don't even know why on midwaybear though; I just remember liking this posts.

I was looking at the playerlist last night and I realized that I don't actually have active suspicions on anyone*. Some pings here and there which has me wondering if it's setup related or if scum are in the people that I just haven't seen posting much? I don't know; hopefully a reread fixes that.

Although! If you're vote on me was serious, it's wrong, but I think you'll realize that once I have some thoughts on the game after actually reading it. I hope. I hope I have thoughts.

well the process was raelizing i don't actually remember anything about how you play, which made me realize i didn't remember anything you've done this game, which led me to read back on you and realize i don't townread you and i'm not sure why anyone does. i didn't have any serious intentions of attempting to wagon you (i was going giving you and diamondsentinel the "first game off a hiatus" d1 pass regardless of my read), but felt the need to express that read in a visible fashion

werent you recently saying no one scumreads diamond? now youre saying you scumread diamond but are giving him a pass?

[Tammy]

Pick back up at 21 later

So far my reads haven't actually changed. Still have midwaybear, ffery, syry and cabd as varying town reads. If I could do tiers without my brain literally melting down into syrup for my waffles I'd maybe have cabd the lowest but even typing that out doesn't feel right. I do remember why I was town reading midwaybear though! And I agree with my past self that it's a bit tonal, but the engagement and the tonal response to the suspicion or votes he's got is far above the FGO "wasn't me" vibe he gave.

Taylor Swift half feels like she's playing this game with fortune cookies. Crack open a cookie, post whatever it says inside as a response to something.

Like cakez, alisae, taylor, and bell less than I remember liking them in the moment.

Like Diamond Sentinel more actually. Not an actual town read, just like them more.

Cabd - I think I understood your Andrius comment. This doesn't really mean anything but just patting myself on the back if I was able to understand something a bit coded.

[petapan]

werent you recently saying no one scumreads diamond? now youre saying you scumread diamond but are giving him a pass?

if you were paying attention i called him town

[Tammy]

well the process was raelizing i don't actually remember anything about how you play, which made me realize i didn't remember anything you've done this game, which led me to read back on you and realize i don't townread you and i'm not sure why anyone does. i didn't have any serious intentions of attempting to wagon you (i was going giving you and diamondsentinel the "first game off a hiatus" d1 pass regardless of my read), but felt the need to express that read in a visible fashion

I actually expected you to scum read or not town read my early game. I'm not much of an early game solver; I used to try to be but it really didn't fit me, so I settled back into floating through the early game in a more observational way because it's more me. I imagine the reason the people are town reading me has more to do with my scum game and its deficiencies than I'm objectively town right now. (It's sad, but I was out of my scum range on like page 5, for reasons even the people here who know me might not know.) That doesn't matter though because hopefully my town mojo is not completely lost and it'll be cool soon enough.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Have you guys ever been to a party where people are just talking and having a great time and you can't understand what they're saying or get a word in edgewise so you just smile awkwardly and end up drinking way too much because the only person who will talk to you is the bartender? I've been to lots of parties like that but I'm an alcoholic so I enjoy them tremendously.


Now let me tell you about this great game I played in during 2003, about a decade before most of you came to this site,

It was a 12 player mini with 3 mafia and 1 SK and we did not miss a single elim (4/4) not a single town player was lynched - we were done in 7 pages.

You can tell by my efficiency this game that I am actually incredibly good at scum-hunting: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=228

[petapan]

then why aren't you voting scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why don't you just confess this will go a lot easier

[petapan]

i confess that i am town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Gimme the name of a scumbuddy at least

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Gimme the name of a scumbuddy at least

[Nahdia]

I'm not sure if you really believed in Tammy being self conscious, but now I see my man Diamond also making similar accusations so idk

you think I... didn't believe it?

I latched onto the initial post I pointed out (the one which replied was just a joke) because that's 100% out of my own scum playbook. The kind of post I basically would never make as town but am pretty sure I have in fact made as scum. That doesn't mean it's the same for Tammy, but in my own self-reflection I find I make that kind of post because when I'm worried about how to make a town post, the obvious (too-obvious, therefore has to be presented as a joke) solution is to literally copy the post of a town player. So I started looking for more evidence of that kind of self-consciousness and found the things I pointed out from there.

mmm this isn't a good look

VOTE: fferyllt

this isn't a good look

VOTE: Nahdia

Nahdia did you pick up on this copying of your post? Did it evoke the same concern that scum was copying the post of a town player to look town?

it's less less the act of copying the post and more the "am i doing it right?" the lampshading is what pinged me about it.

[Nahdia]

frankly you getting so hung up on this is also, as they say, a bad look.

[Tammy]

Not about me.

I'm not going to stop trying to figure out your alignment and if your arguments that sound wrong are in fact wrong because you say it's a bad look.

Did it not occur to you that as I was rereadng the game, and seeing people copying other people's posts, one that was a direct copy of your own, that I questioned how much you believe the argument you made in the first place? We do still play mafia by asking people questions to see if they believe their arguments or if they're selective scum hunting, right? I realize site meta has changed. Has it changed that much?

[Bell]

Page 35 to 52. I'm skimming from here!

You don't have to read all of it but you should probably read yours since there are questions mixed in there.

LMK if you want to discuss any posts.*

Tayl0r Swift

Spoiler:

#1094: Pinged.
#1098: Okay.
#1099: Okay?
#1111: You sound like there's a terrorist with a gun to your head forcing you to play in 12 games just out of frame or something.
#1113: I don't!
#1125: Sure.
#1135: Wut? We went to a Halloween pumpkin tour thing. It was very pretty. My grandpa said his favorite part was the pumpkin 'Dinasnores.' which is my new favorite made up word.
#1214: What about the last few pages wasn't fun? I had fun.

Cabd

Spoiler:

#850: Push.
#984: Did you roll scum this game?
#996: Remind me next time to make sure you always go first with these.
#1019: Remind me next time to make sure you always go first with these.
#1021: *gasp* I AM NOT TRIGGERED. also, also, Tammy it would be desperate for approval if he went second. because that way he could alter them. (time travel, FF even copped to this before going first!)
#1027: Eh. Depends on how they do it.
#1028: Forced.
#1030: Oh, I guess that means you aren't scum then~
#1033: Why did you decide to adjust the positions of her current reads rather than giving your own?
#1034: 60 seconds.
#1045: 5 minutes.
#1186: Winner either way, am I right?
#1218: Prompt.
#1219: Okay, but couldn't you just examine the merits rather than having your own original read.
#1225: No.

fferyllt

Spoiler:

*Mostly aimed at you and Syrana. Even though Syrana hasn't done anything but look pretty yet. (On page 40 at the time of this writing).
#856: Going forward.
#1010: Enjoy the moment.
#1023:

Highly townie.

#1032: No! Why did you go first?! 8 reads. Midway in the middle. Why is syrana so high. Besides being tonally exactly the same down to the orange jacket. Well, actually that's not true this game. He's tonally similar to how he was at the end of that game. But friendly tell. Which ones surprised you?
#1038: Ground run. FF/Cabd out.
#1064: Defense. FF/Cabd out X2.
#1095: Clearly a villager that bakes bread in their spare time.
#1152: Why did you ignore it? Nope! Not really. It was an RVS poke.
#1182: I like this post. Look at all the wheels she's spinning.
#1230: Right? ...right? The fitting size and shape thing is a lot harder than it needs to be though.
#1231: Rest well.

midwaybear

Spoiler:

#876: Why?
#893:
#1000: That is one wavy wavelength.
#1005: This post is carefully NAI.
#1014: You guess? @Gamma town read he did go a little extra! Humor at end. Nice touch if scum.
#1223: I wonder what this could be a reference to!
#1240: Details

SirCakez

Spoiler:

#881: Do you know them well enough to state this with confidence or is this a one game thing?
#896: Nuance Shove. This must be why they call you sir.
#898: Explanation given post-wagon formation. This is a more subtle push at Cabd's authority maybe? Gunna file this thought away under the Cake Agenda.
#909: And here I thought my translation services wouldn't be needed for Pooky. He's saying how you give away town reads is too easy, not that you give too many. He does tend to mix his metaphors around a little it looks like. Cabd is using meta references so that only certain players get it. In this case you didn't actually need the metaphor to get it though. This is I think my first time playing with Cabd as a not hydra and while I got this one, I get a little annoyed when I don't. Maybe Tammy has a point.
#920: I guess this must be why they call you Cakez.
#930: Have you never heard of a pet peeve before?
#942: Legitimacy: Gamma edition?
#943: Maybe.
#1144: Sigh, here we go again. Well, here we go. Have you ever played a large theme or how many large themed games have you played? Have you ever done this gambit as scum. Have you ever seen scum do this gambit. Have you ever thought to yourself "boy it would sure be neat if I faked not knowing whether there was day chat or not as scum!" Have you ever thought about the poor townsfolk that have to WIFOM themselves to death when you do dis? Oh well. Re Bulge: Not same.
#1151: Hey, thematically appropriate! Very townie.
#1243: O D D B A L L

Something_Smart

Spoiler:

#959: Looking for handles?
#960: There's also the air you like to float in. Do you have any reads yet?
#963: Good to know. Thanks.
#965: Nope. Seen both.
#967: Very scummy.
#978: Oh, I see. You were criticizing SirCakez logic for what I was criticizing your logic for. MB.
#985: Empiricism or it didn't happen (enough)
#1172: That is not a chaos emerald in your head.
#1190: insert some sort of about to say something, but ends up walking away gif.
#1204: an IMO post.
#1239: Are you though? This seems about right? Do you thread avoid as scum? I didn't get that impression.
#1244: *clap*

Syryana

Spoiler:

*Mostly aimed at you and fferyllt even though fferyllt hasn't done anything yet as of page 40 (I'm not a hypocrite, YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE).
#988: Do you usually have strong scum reads by this point?
#1074: FWIW: as of this page, you're a weak town lean. mostly due to friendliness tell.
#1109: So nice! What a nice guy you are. RIP Eliza.
#1159: *Knocks over table* Hey, you did something! And it was even kind of townie!
#1176. Fair. Hmm to the rest of that.

Alisae

Spoiler:

#1092: Hi there.
#1114: The latter. Wandering chickens is my more typical MO. The larger the game the more I wander cause it's hard to follow 17 people.
Walk me through your sentinel scum read. why aren't you voting any of them?
#1128: The way people are using LHF I'm starting to wonder if I'm misunderstanding what the acronym means. I thought it meant looking to have fun, which presumably, we're all looking to have.

petapan

Spoiler:

#868: Lazy.
#870: The fuck you say
#882: The fuck you say
#892: You have conviction?
#969: Is the sketch of you sitting on a fence
#991: *gasp* you let Gamma think you were tunneling and now you used invisible parentheses so they'll never know the truth. Huh. Hmm.

0.02 TP for this. but

#994: Same, but it's day one so I don't even know why you're bothering to say this.
#1015: Sure.
#1052: He's a floater. In your eye. Why are you tuning it out instead of pursuing it?
#1053: I've noticed your notice. I do that as scum, here's 0.01 scum points. Don't spend it all in one place.
#1055: Empathy.
#1137: Standard follow up.
#1160: Pinged. Self narration.
#1167: This is a good approach.
#1170: Right turn.
#1177: Bleh.
1180: My problem is that you were literally spinning a narrative and giving the rest of us a scenario, like you were selling it.
#1181: Unexpected.
#1235: Should I buy this Peta?

Tammy

Spoiler:

851# Code Geass Mafia. 4 years ago. Opening play is fairly similar to this one. But their posts are much shorter, less focused. But 18 now 22. They brushed people off and poked their heads in either to change non-conducive discourse or give an opinion.
#867:Reasonable.
#910: Odd. you're attacking his hypocrisy instead of considering his point. Playstyle isn't one or the other. You can use your playstyle differently depending on whether you're scum or town so saying it's playstyle is more the beginning of a conversation than the end of one. Bounce off? mmm.
#954: That's one hell of an asterisk.
#1031: You described that well enough to get a laugh out of me. Thanks.
#1036: Empathy.
#1044: Concurrence.
#1061: Well, I'm wifoming over this post.
#1140: Is this an accurate summary: I think Cabd would believe that Syrana is town if FF told you she thought he was town. If this isn't some sort of test, are you scum?
#1154: Why were you beating yourself up in the first place?
#1197: Where is this emotion coming from?

PookyTheMagicalBear

Spoiler:

#862: The metaphors got mixed, who's the low hanging fruit? you?
#869: Bummer. I liked her.
#891: He seems bland rather than sweet. Do you mean in general or do you mean for him specifically? Priorities. I feel u.
#895: He might just be the

hero

monster we need this game.
#904: Oh, I guess not.
#914: Can't spell irony without an arrow to the knee. Why is Tammy 100% town for that post?
#918: Good q.
#929: It's a townie post, you should read it.
#948: Arrow #2.
#1112: I care. Why don't you?
#1162: Oh hey.
#1164: Hey, he looked at 6 (allegedly) games!
#1165: Mom, is that you?
#1167: He could probably guess.
#1174: Didn't he make an earlier post about tunneling players until they town told? He's not doing that.
#1196: ?
#1202: thought you might!

The Bulge

Spoiler:

#1120: Hey there. No pressure.
#1127: Push. Never know what you're going to get.
#1241: It was pretty funny wasn't it?

Jake The Wolfie

Spoiler:

852# Is this a thing?
#854 self fulfilling prophecy is self fulfilling
#1131: Can I lend you a shovel?
#1139: So gut? Why do you read Sentinel as scum? They seem quite townie to me.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

#894: This post makes sense if you replace tunnel with "first thing that could possibly be construed as townie"
#911: Mafia is more complex when we're not all anonymous and meeting each other for the first time. My default mentality is that I don't want to eliminate them day 1 and that's a problem when you're not supposed to play like or think like that.
#913: Legitimacy is make believe. But I think it requires more than just the person making the argument to think it's legit to be legit. You seem to be stopping yourself from being drawn into discussions on non-game related things which is good.
#922: Ditto.
#931: Not really.
#940: Sure, but is it scummy?
#943:I thought it was a literature thing and this was just a gross misapplication of the cliche.
#961: RFTWR. Nahdia's posts pings a little. They seem to be fence sitting and room watching.
#979: I don't see it.
#1013: Moldy bread tell.
#1078: I'm not. You're hard to read.
#1080. Yeah, i literally meant I forgot how accurate you were.
#1213: They activated their townie aura that makes town and scum run for the hills. When you look again though.I just feel like I watched a cartoon. (time travel to 3 minutes later, oh I just opened the spoiler and: Same.
#1221:Nahdia -> Tswifty.
#1223: Tayswifty could be town Too tho. Therefore
#1227: She did? Where?

DiamondSentinel

Spoiler:

#853, what kind of scum tell is that? Lol.
#859 Why is that a universal scum read? In regards to #789, at first I thought he was joking, but actually there's no trace of humor there. In regards to Cabd's dream post what about it makes you think its townie? it's certainly an odd angle of attack but it doesn't seem inherently townie.
#861: I've never seen scum use it that way before. Or at least, thought about it differently.
#871: You've meta'd Cabd for this game specifically or was this incidental?
#875: Imagine alt slipping within your first two posts and getting booted from that game.
#924: This must be what Pooky felt like when he was talking to me.
#928: A little too honest. Also, maybe not the best idea to give out your playbook. Townie perspective, but outside the game so mmm. Half-point.
#932: I feel attacked.
#981: ...
#1116: True dis, so what?
#1260: Hmph very well! You can be town I guess. Shut up peta.

Nahdia

Spoiler:

#993: Well that's a miss.
#1002: What is?
#1012: Makes sense.
#1018: Depends on the scum.
#1126: Empathy. I mean no, I don't feel bad at all! Trej: Taylor.
#1155: Thanks Nahdia. I hope you sort yourself out too.
#1158: I'm not confident I can read Cabd at all. FF I think I can.
#1171: Would binge several seasons.
#1179: Snappy for TV
#1189: Snappy for TVX2. You're unique.
#1205: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!
#1209: I too think this. But it's pretty irrational.
#1211: Not sure if serious. Are you serious?

[Nahdia]

Not about me.

I'm not going to stop trying to figure out your alignment and if your arguments that sound wrong are in fact wrong because you say it's a bad look.

Did it not occur to you that as I was rereadng the game, and seeing people copying other people's posts, one that was a direct copy of your own, that I questioned how much you believe the argument you made in the first place? We do still play mafia by asking people questions to see if they believe their arguments or if they're selective scum hunting, right? I realize site meta has changed. Has it changed that much?

we still do that. but you're searching for contradictions where there aren't any.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Taylor Swift half feels like she's playing this game with fortune cookies. Crack open a cookie, post whatever it says inside as a response to something.

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

As I see it, Yes.

[Tammy]

scum catchup post

@ bell