Mini Theme 2165: MafiaSunny (Complete!)

[duppin]

actually also one more thing, noraas defense of skies last day was a bit odd to me at least and she kind of did the same in the game i linked, defended towns under fire for what i at least consider to be not very good reasoning.

i dont want to conf bias myself too much, but i will say after her latest posts today i dont find her to be town anymore, so i think gamma/noraa should be the solve for tomorrow assuming you would lim haschel over me of course

[VP Baltar]

I kind of hate duppin and gamma backing each other up on a gut level.

I'll look at that game duppin, and probably reread big chunks of this game while I wait for Ythan to weigh in.

Haschel, it's kind of weird you don't want to yeet the confirmed scum from your perspective.

[Noraa]

that makes sense, but like, I also think you hit a key vein of why they might overlook that as well: if the sole reason they decided to do it was to avoid giving a solid indication of who might be right/wrong, and/or if they thought they could sway the person who they would have otherwise killed. I would bet dollars to donuts (I don't understand why that's a phrase tbh) that you would have been the kill if one happened, VPB. Who stands to gain in the scenarios I suggested? Noraa. This is where the effort has an actual scum logic to it. I imagine Noraa tried to put everything she had into one Hail Mary push to make everyone doubt themselves on her. And it worked on me, for a time. I was entertaining thoughts that were honestly rather blasphemous that I'd rather not say them without cause.

Ok hold up.
1) this is all a wash bc there's too many possibilities
but
2) Vp had a huge SR on me throughout the entire game until yesterday. If I was scum, knowing that I overthink everything, I would've just killed him bc I was worried he would go back to SRing me. The thing is Vp keeps saying that no-kill means more possible mislims but I disagree cuz unless the scums r absolute idiot heads, they would've killed either vp or ythan since those two are conftown and towns not gonna lim them today no matter what. The mislim possibilities are the exact same actually but considering that VP sussed me for the majority of the game, scum!me would want him dead to prevent that from happening. I mean yes he continues to TR me but if I was scum, last night I definitely would've overthought and, not knowing what would happen today, kill him.
Then again this is self meta in a situation im not in so its not necessarily correct and it could also be subconsciously tweaked after gamma and duppins constant attacks against me.

The fact Noraa doesn't know that is a huge townslip

no no its really not, especially not when both me and gamma have already pointed it out earlier in the day. on the contrary it seems to indicate that she either hasnt read the post aimed at her, that she forgot or that she is faking it. it simply isn't alignment indicative and i know you claimed earlier that you didn't, but i simply can't see how this is not a newb pass. I refuse to believe you would have called it a townslip if Gamma had said it.

also i can obviously only link to her finished scum games, but i really believe you ought to take a look at her doggos game.
i believe this might be her first game so her play is definitely a bit more newb like but after i read it i found it concerning and i actually think all of her latest posts are making me lean more towards her being scum.

this is her iso in that game, she is scum with shelly:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12084642

notice how her read on shelly progresses throughout the game, when shelly is pushed on she tries to townclear her by dismissing/trying to discredit the pusher. I feel she did the exact same here, she seemed to suggest haschel became more townie after i voted on him and that she was scared that both scum had voted on haschel etc, when i have been making it very clear all day that i would always vote for haschel and that she should be able to understand that from my point of view he is always scum (which is also why i dont think it is town at all for haschel to vote on anyone but me especially not when the team could easily be me and noraa since our slots have not pushed on each other at all and i pushed for a skies wagon over noraa yesterday, our interactions today shouldnt really affect his read that much given its mylo, so i think thats a scumtell).
she also does the whole "i am so confused" thing quite a lot. feel free to compare that iso with her town games

now id like to say this does not necessarily mean she is scum, but i think there is quite a big possibility that she.
So solve me and Haschel instead please.

Ok duppin can you stop going around and telling people im scum cuz my behavior is something like in doggos?
1) no matter wtf my role pm says, I am still me and if there are no similarities between scum!me and town!me, there'd be a big problem
2) that was my very first game of mafia ever. can you not? Obviously I pulled the newb card hard there and spammed the fuck cuz scum!me is hyperactive throughout the entire game. When im more confused, indecisive, lost, and less present its always town!me. You need to stop SRing me everywhere for my first game. Not cool.

[duppin]

1) i agree yes and as i also said earlier in the day i also think you've had some small town tells - but your reaction to the whole haschel thing and the way you treated his slot is just very similar to what you have done as scum. I also think I have been very clear about me not being convinced you are scum but my earlier town lean on you today has dropped back to a well lets just call it a null read leaning slight towards scum
2) i even pointed it out myself that it was your first game, but that does not change the fact that there are some similarities to this game that i find scummy

[Noraa]

You being so protective of gamma isnt exactly making me TR u rn.

[Noraa]

you will find similarities in every game if you try hard enough. You are just using my playstyle against me.
ur logic is "when she's scum she defends somebody. rn she's defending somebody therefore she's scum"
wtf

[Noraa]

Ur sticking to gamma and gamma is scum. Ur either pocketed scum or gammas scum buddy. Im leaning scum buddy again cuz of ur constant sheeping and agreeing. Too much partner equity between u and gamma.

[duppin]

im not really being protective of anyone, i just want to lim haschel

also i am not sure you know what sheeping means?

[duppin]

also that clearly wasnt my logic, but i dont need to explain any of this to you really. i just need ythan and vp to actually evaluate me and haschel

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel, it's kind of weird you don't want to yeet the confirmed scum from your perspective.

I do; I just acknowledge that it's a coinflip for the rest of you. From my perspective Duppin is 100% scum and Gamma is probably 85%, but from everyone else's then Duppin is 50%, I am 50%, and Gamma is still 85%.

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

[Noraa]

also that clearly wasnt my logic, but i dont need to explain any of this to you really. i just need ythan and vp to actually evaluate me and haschel

Ythan, VP. Evaluate {gamma, Noraa} today bc 1) its easier to evaluate and its clear who is scum
and 2) we get a whole night of peace and quiet to calm down and think about haschel and duppin

Haschel's partner equity with Reck, after I rethought is actually quite high. Gamma and duppin partner equity is also really high. I can't tell. If its really just haschel and gamma, I'm stressing over nothing but either way, its clear gamma is the common factor. Can we just make a decision now. I think its clear why gamma is the best lim today and duppins whole case and defending of gamma is just not rubbing me right even tho yesterday I had just accepted haschel/gamma. Idk just, lets just go with the safer lim. Theres nothing else to say here honestly. I think everyone just needs a thread lock to sit down and think hard about duppin and haschel.

[Noraa]

all this wishy washy nonsense is not at all helping me solve {haschel, duppin}

[Noraa]

As much as normally I want the days extended to have more thinking time, I don't think we have a need for that rn. It's very clear gamma is scum and I think for the most part, town agrees on that. Haschel and duppin on the other hand, no one really agrees completely and those that think gamma/haschel acknowledge gamma/duppin might be right and vice versa.

[duppin]

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

that's very misleading. i can only use games she has finished for obvious reasons, the other scum game she has she replaced into a scumread slot around d2 or d3 (cant remember) which changes the dynamics a bit obviously, but she still did something similar towards her partner (her preds vote was on her partner, she unvoted for no real reason and then later had a null leaning town read on the slot for no real logical reason either).

she has also finished a towngame and you are free to read up on that as well to see what i pointed all

but the fact that you come out with this statement does actually make me feel it makes noraa slightly more town, not in the sense that associations mean anything as of right now but more so because i just feel like it could be an attempt at wanting put more shade on me in case we end up limming Gamma today and he flips scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Haschel, it's kind of weird you don't want to yeet the confirmed scum from your perspective.

I do; I just acknowledge that it's a coinflip for the rest of you. From my perspective Duppin is 100% scum and Gamma is probably 85%, but from everyone else's then Duppin is 50%, I am 50%, and Gamma is still 85%.

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

These percentages are complete bunk lol

[Noraa]

Haschel, it's kind of weird you don't want to yeet the confirmed scum from your perspective.

I do; I just acknowledge that it's a coinflip for the rest of you. From my perspective Duppin is 100% scum and Gamma is probably 85%, but from everyone else's then Duppin is 50%, I am 50%, and Gamma is still 85%.

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

These percentages are complete bunk lol

the 50-50 for haschel/duppin is a bit ... wonky but its understandable considering he's not gonna want to admit his percentage is higher. I'd say its more like duppin is 75% and haschel is 25% in {duppin, haschel}. In {noraa, gamma} it's 90% noraa and 10% gamma. then again we're talking about me and im 1000% sure gamma is scum so thats definitely biased on my end :/

[Gamma Emerald]

Huh, I think you misinterpreted what the percentages were indicating

[Noraa]

Either way I urge a confscum lim today.
If duppin is town, then he is also urging a confscum lim today.
This is the best case scenario where no matter what we choose, we catch scum.
Worse case scenario is that gamma is scum and haschel isnt.

[Noraa]

Ythan VP y'all been quiet since us four got into a tussle. thoughts?

[duppin]

Haschel last day you called Noraa scum, your behaviour today seems to suggest you have changed your mind, so could you explain your read progression?

[Noraa]

Haschel last day you called Noraa scum, your behaviour today seems to suggest you have changed your mind, so could you explain your read progression?

I noticed this as well but I figured if I wanted to read into it I could see it as scum trying to sway me by giving me a town pass or just a townie thats determined I am not scum.

[VP Baltar]

Ythan VP y'all been quiet since us four got into a tussle. thoughts?

I'll vote when I vote. I really don't need to hear more from any of you. Just need to think. It's going to be a risk wherever I vote.

You're welcome to push whoever you want to push, but people repeating the same points doesn't really have any effect on my thinking. Original lines of inquiry remain welcome.

[Noraa]

Ythan VP y'all been quiet since us four got into a tussle. thoughts?

I'll vote when I vote. I really don't need to hear more from any of you. Just need to think. It's going to be a risk wherever I vote.

You're welcome to push whoever you want to push, but people repeating the same points doesn't really have any effect on my thinking. Original lines of inquiry remain welcome.

;( sorry im just tunneling at this point cuz im too sure but yeah thats not helpful to anyone. I shall instead ask game advancing questions

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel last day you called Noraa scum, your behaviour today seems to suggest you have changed your mind, so could you explain your read progression?

Yesterday it looked obvious that Noraa was partners with Brightskies. This was provably false so I reevaluated, and her play today has been town.

[Noraa]

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

that's very misleading. i can only use games she has finished for obvious reasons, the other scum game she has she replaced into a scumread slot around d2 or d3 (cant remember) which changes the dynamics a bit obviously, but she still did something similar towards her partner (her preds vote was on her partner, she unvoted for no real reason and then later had a null leaning town read on the slot for no real logical reason either).

she has also finished a towngame and you are free to read up on that as well to see what i pointed all

but the fact that you come out with this statement does actually make me feel it makes noraa slightly more town, not in the sense that associations mean anything as of right now but more so because i just feel like it could be an attempt at wanting put more shade on me in case we end up limming Gamma today and he flips scum

ur statement conflicts itself. U say im throwing shade on u for having a bad argument and that means I am more scummy(im assuming thats what u meant not more towny)