Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I will be around for about 3 hours. also will be around prior to deadline.

I prefer Hectic but willing to consolidate on any1 other than Tanner/Alisae/Tweetie.

[Alisae]

i actually think i wanna hurt krazy over lavender mostly because im having 2nd thoughts about lavender now :/

[Krazy]

ok do we need to talk? can you walk me through what you liked about the tanner posts and why you're not thinking about hectic?

[Krazy]

where is everyone?

[Alisae]

everyone is not an account created on this website

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't think he points out the deadline rules if he's scum
I think his "panic" posts feel genuine
His stream of consciousness posting feels very real to me and I don't think they are easy for him to fake.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Alisae/Krazy who are you willing to vote for today?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'll do a spreadsheet or something to try to organize it

[Krazy]

hello prism i am also here and dying (both on the inside and outside) with you

and if that does happen i will personally blame myself for not remembering to point this out yesterday

lavender if you're town please vote taylor

WHOEVER VOTES TAYLOR WILL BE LOCKTOWN FROM HERE ON OUT BY ME

okay maybe I've played with duckling too much but a big push toward theatricality toward end of the day, particularly in a manner that could theoretically spew his slot town, is something I feel I am much more likely to see from scum in some ways? Like prism's reactions certainly feel natural to me and I can see town being alarmed, but I feel like tanner as scum would be very pumped to see this playing out and certainly would "milk" it for all it's worth. I guess I just don't really see what is hard to fake from this group?

As for the rambling beginning of the day...

at the time of me writing this, it is about 7:30pm. some 2 hours since the flips were posted. i've cracked a beer open, i'm having popcorn, and i'm dead inside. i'll be posting this as soon as day three dawns. if i don't live to see the sunrise, i will instead post this in the dead thread of whatever afterlife awaits me.

then i kinda realized that scum is in a (probably) not good position here, and scum!puppy would have to like, start setting things up for the future days?

because in our last game, he was similarly in a not very good position, and i caught on to the misexecutes he was setting up (that i then got killed over and nobody listened to me and they executed my townread in lylo but i'm not saly i'm not salty at all)

and here he's just... not doing that?

i am not a clown.

i am the entire circus.

I guess I'd need to review more on why you're obvtown or see yourself as such, but I don't in general think [tanner] pushing obvtown [puppy] makes them town.

this quote makes me want to gouge my own eyes out.

this not me taking a jab at krazy, his reads, nor his alignment. this is me being a salt mine.

WHOEVER VOTES TAYLOR WILL BE LOCKTOWN FROM HERE ON OUT BY ME

at first, i regretted making this post, since lavender hammered right after, and i thought i would have to break a promise. this post was made out of desperation, and i thought her hammering does not make her town, because she might've been scum scraping any sorta towncred she can by beating puppy to the hammer.

however... puppy flipped chara.

puppy had a clear-cut wincon of "don't show up". whether he accidentally played against that wincon by not realizing it, or was purposefully posting to stall to troll us, i don't know. in a theoretical puppy/lavender world, the best course of action is to tell lavender *not to post*. it doesn't actually matter if the town figures out puppy is stalling, because by the time we do figure that out (likely very little time left on the clock), it's very very unlikely 6 people show up to shift the wagon onto him, and at any town!fight, he's dead anyway.

we were expecting lavender not to show up at all. but she did. so i think the options are:
(1) scum!lavender, either unknowingly (not reading the thread nor the scum PT before making her presence known) or knowingly (???) played against wincon by showing up
(2) scum!lavender planned this exact sequence of events out with scum!puppy in hopes that someone locktown her for it rather than trying to go for the win outright
(3) lavender is town.

i would like some feedback on this, but i do genuinely think this makes town!lavender much much *much* more likely now.

ok the beer is starting to have its effects, i'm not sure if i had anything left to say in the opening post anyway
i think i'm gonna try to stop thinking about this game until day three

does anyone still think i might be scum in this game???? does anyone dare call my puppy push tmi??????? speak now or forever hold your peace because i *will* argue about why i should basically be an IC here

(i'm keeping this line even if i die, fuck it, i'll argue with the dead thread i don't give a fuck)

ok cool see ya in two days
cheers

edit some 2 hours later:

i lied. i'm thinking about this game. morning tweet is probably town for the similar reason as lavender. even if scum!tweet wasn't aware of the "scum chooses the action" thing, i'm assuming she would've at least checked the rules out when she saw my post, and i'm assuming she wouldn't purposefully ~not try to win immediately~ because she dislikes playing scum right? and now would have to play like 3 more days? ok cool

edit2:

it's like 1:30am. i'm thinking about this game again. hectic has changed his avatar into a depressed sonic drinking. man i fucking feel that. i've been ctrl+fing "launchy" in his iso. man that hurts. man that fucking hurts. i am in pain. we have wronged this man. unless hectic is like, 3rd scum who was calling out both his buddies since day one???? no. hectic. buddy. listen. we are a townblocc now.

ALSO THE NEXT PERSON TO SAY THE WORDS "WE SHOULD SPARE" IS GETTING DEATHTUNNELED NO MERCY

fucking hell

fuck the triangle we're going oldschool
maybe 1499 wasn't a *complete* disaster
let's try this again.

{tanner} - bruh my role pm is green
{tweet, lavender} - town because of deadline thing. more conclusive for tweet than for lavender. but eh.
{prism} - i refuse to believe this slot is scum. if this slot is scum i am going to cry so many tears post game.
{hectic} - this is my townblocc now. prism don't @ me.
{pooky} - i am vibing town!pooky. i just am.
{chara} - i have a feeling i haven't read anything about this slot in like years. did prism say chara is town? idk.
.
.
.
{krazy} - anyone other than prism give me * o n e * good reason why this slot isn't getting nuked into oblivion today

i don't actually know at this very moment why i *so strongly* feel like we *really* need to nuke this but i do
like my two Pure Gutfeels(tm) on day two were nuke krazy and nuke puppy

i haven't figured out the implications yet what chara!puppy means wrt day one bussing though
what was the wagon
why would chara bus but regular mafia not
ok that is one reason why i might not call to instanuke krazy here
hmmm redtea was gone though
h m m
H M M

ok it's 2am now and a friend is calling me i gotta go
i'll think about this in the morning

edit after daystart:

no nightkill? doesn't that mean that town gets an extra execution in genocide? that's... odd. very odd. i'll think about it. at some point. maybe.

first, I don't really think people are more townie when they self-narrate how long they are spending on their posts or when they are doing their posts. I actually think this is very often scummy. Town just do posts, and while they can observe how long it takes to do something, they don't really play it up. This is so self-referential to me it's a bit distracting.

Secondly the readslist bothers me since I think Pooky is also town so the first slot where I can see where he's coming from is Hectic. Beyond that the way he works around my slot seems very scummy, he's not really articulating a case on me--in fact, he makes good points for why it doesn't make sense for my slot to be scum off VCA but then ignores it, which is something I've seen from him *multiple* times around my slot.

Like maybe the reason this post is so rambly and long is because he needs to formulate some reason to justify a push on me because he needs to feel like he's pushing somewhere even if it's unnatural or contradicts his own thought process?

You and Hectic have both said this seems natural and hard to fake but this feels unnatural and easy to fake. What am I not seeing here?

[Krazy]

huh the site just ate a short post I made to ali

hmmm

anyway, ali can you work with me more here lol

[Krazy]

Alisae/Krazy who are you willing to vote for today?

he just said his pool is lavender/krazy, so you need to decide if you agree with that pool or want to go outside it. Do you want Hectic at this point or not?

I'm kinda at Tanner-->Hectic, not really sure what I'd be willing to compromise on after that

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm saying we need to widen our pools to get a consensus at this point because if we're each only willing to push 2 people, we won't really get a majority?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

just think of the 2 people you absolutely refuse to vote for other than yourself and the other 5 will all be viable for you?

[Krazy]

I mean, maybe. But this is also the point to really be clear about what you do want. Do you want Hectic? If you're going to compromise after that, it needs to be clear right

I'm like, aware no one seems super interested in Tanner but I can keep batting down all the weak reasons keep presenting for him being town, and at this point Hectic's last few posts seemed slimy enough I'm open minded about not deathtunneling him. But I don't think we should all randomly expand Lavender into our pools just because she's a low volume poster when she's basically done as much to obvtown herself this game as you are probably ever going to get from Lavender in any game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I want Hectic but I'm scared.

I really want to just make sure we get to 5 votes on somebody.

[Krazy]

Well stop quibbling about the spare no one wants and be clear to alisae and nacho that hectic is the way lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so who are you willing to elim today? Pick 2 people you would absolutely bet the game on that they are town and everyone else is expendable. We need a consensus elim or else scum gains tons of EV

[Krazy]

I have no idea why Nacho and Alisae both have me in their pool or low in their pool and since I'm not staying up all night waiting for whenever Nacho comes back I'm going to remind people of the points that people have already solved my slot this game multiple times.

The catboi nightkill does not come from a last scum under fire:

if redtea/suji/krazy is the non-chara why would they shoot the person who had them as solid town and stated multiple times during D1 that they were town?

This fit Redtea's town meta:

I followed along in SIN and this is a similar but more confident redtea. This makes sense given the townwin that resulted and the paranoia that crept into their thinking at the end over the more straightforward obvscum.

this is the redtea post, their proactivity in reads+how readily they went to bat for me-not for its own sake either, but to press someone else-lines up really well with the confidence boost that likely came with that game

they also have reason to be terrified/nervous of a catscum but they're showing no fear at all. Super town imo

Hectic also is right here on some of the reasons I do not no kill:

Krazy is probably town because he's exceptionally adept with mechanics. Chara can attest to this. He came into a Boon game while I was hydraing with Billy Pilgrim and powersolved it by compiling all the mech together and forming an optimal strat. I very much doubt he makes the error of accidentally giving town an extra elim here.

There's the question of him nokilling for WIFOM, but that's a pretty all around losing play, like a last resort "why not" play if you really think you don't have a chance, but it then doesn't fit his mindset yesterday, where he was efforting a fair bit, and put a lot of effort into a Tanner case.

Maybe I'm dumb but he's moved up a couple of spaces for me just based on this no-kill. I think Pooky and Lavender are most likely to no-kill here. Pooky for the memes and Lavender because she miscalculated or forgot to.

Alisae can attest to the additional fact that I do not like playing scum and would never intentionally make a game longer by no killing, nor would I give town an extra fight. I know there's an issue of "no one would make such an obvious tactical mistake so it could be anyone" but really, I don't like scum. Alisae I think knows I replaced out of ali vs pine because I ran out of steam. There are 0 worlds where I no-kill into an extra day, and Datisi arguing that I wouldn't do the math to work that out is one of the main reasons I think he's scum, because I don't really think town!datisi has that thought process about me

now I do feel a bit omgusy about datisi and I know people want to be like hard town on tanner because of the posts above, but given I also don't townread those posts I kinda don't want to just drop that.

That being said given Hectic already solved me for town having him randomly start shading me after two replacements come in and change the gamestate is pretty scummy too

I feel like I could do VCA on why I'm town too but I think if you think about the gamestate you find me town. Not sure what more specifically I need to do to towncase myself given my slot has already been more convincingly towncased by half the game at varying occasions, in addition to

I have a huge feeling that Krazy's push on Tanner today (and response to being pushed by Tanner) just isn't from scum. But i can't explain it very well

if you actually think about how I'm approaching this game, I think that like Tweet you also intuit I'm town

I think I can be on early tomorrow morning before deadline but I'm not staying up all night screwing with wagons. I think Hectic is the way. If you're just giving 0 explanation on why he's town and you're voting Lavender, who is a MUCH easier slot to solve as town this game, then I don't know what you're doing

[Krazy]

so who are you willing to elim today? Pick 2 people you would absolutely bet the game on that they are town and everyone else is expendable. We need a consensus elim or else scum gains tons of EV

Again, I don't really think this is a productive exercise. It's much more informative if you take some time to explain why you don't want to go certain places and why you do want to go other places.

If I were to play your game, I'd say Alisae's slot and Lavender. But I think that's not as helpful as you may think it would be. It's making me feel SUPER weird that it feels like you're only engaging me right now when I'm the only one who has joined you on Hectic so far. Do you think we should both push somewhere else? in which case just say that dude or try to make Hectic actually happen LOL

[Krazy]

To be clear, my problem with Hectic right now is that in addition to 3851 just feeling pretty scummy to me, this progression

Krazy is probably town because he's exceptionally adept with mechanics. Chara can attest to this. He came into a Boon game while I was hydraing with Billy Pilgrim and powersolved it by compiling all the mech together and forming an optimal strat. I very much doubt he makes the error of accidentally giving town an extra elim here.

There's the question of him nokilling for WIFOM, but that's a pretty all around losing play, like a last resort "why not" play if you really think you don't have a chance, but it then doesn't fit his mindset yesterday, where he was efforting a fair bit, and put a lot of effort into a Tanner case.

Maybe I'm dumb but he's moved up a couple of spaces for me just based on this no-kill. I think Pooky and Lavender are most likely to no-kill here. Pooky for the memes and Lavender because she miscalculated or forgot to.

I've been thinking about this Tanner push from Krazy, and I get this feeling that scum!Krazy would be a lot more okay with pushing this harsh/slightly mean angle than town!Krazy. As scum, it's all for the sake of the game and fabricated, so no hard feelings. As town, I feel like he's less likely to attack Tanner using this angle unless he's extremely confident, since he'd feel worse about it in case he's wrong. but I don't think the reasons for his push should equate to him being extremely confident? Tanner's start of day 3 wall was so towny, because it was stream of consciousness posting, and really hard to fake as scum, but Krazy continued pushing there regardless.

seems to exist more because two replacements came in and said I was low in their pool than anything else. It feels like Hectic doesn't really want to lead on me but instead position me as available and let other people push me first which is actually kinda more scummy than Tanner's ongoing push which could actually reflect some conviction

I mostly just really don't like 3851 given it makes 0 sense coming from our last game of scumsman together tho

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but Hectic is just not going to happen.

Tanner thinks Hectic is town
Nacho/Alisae both don't want Hectic
Tweetie thinks Hectic is town.
Hectic isn't going to hurt himself.

That's 5 people

We can't flip Hectic between the 2 of us and Lavender who might not even show up so what's the point? We need a consensus Elim to preserve the 2 Pub-Cops - we can't just let the scum stall this into no-decision.

[Tanner]

[Lavender]

Ahhhh I didn’t even notice deadline until you mentioned it
I guess I’ll keep my alarm, I didn’t really read, I go sleep sleep see you in the morning qwq

[Tanner]

- thanks both nacho and alisae for not ignoring me that was great
- sparing is extremely stupid right now
- 3908 is annoying me a lot but now is not the time

[Hectic]

Pretty heavy OMGUS you got there Krazy. I was at Pooky>Lavender>Krazy>Chara before, even after those nightkill posts, and it's now:

Pooky>Krazy>Lavender>Nacho