Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[Bell]

Bell - if you meta’d ds, what were your conclusions?

Can I answer this after DS answers me? Though my initial conclusions were that they were town.

[petapan]

yeah my Taylor SR was way stronger
I'd take voting with a weaker SR on a stronger SR

and not much else has really pinged me from Bell iirc

but you read the taylor part of his catchup and felt it was fine enough to ask him to vote with you? i don't follow

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, when does the dethy uncover the jigsaw puzzle and let the public see their progress?

All we'll ever give the day phase is guilty or inno results. Nothing more.

fair enough. That's enough to give me some solace.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Gamma, I don't feel like being Pro-Town right now. What are your 3 most certain reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

Probably bell, peta, and DS, out of the actual reads

[Alisae]

Would it be accurate to describe Nahdia as lynchbait given the current gamestate?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes, but it's not really a strong sense there rn

[petapan]

not anymore? but certainly prior to today. but things are weird right now

[Gamma Emerald]

So I just generally think Tay's interactions and treatment of mwb have been that of knowing he is scum, but here's the key points I noticed upon checking again.

why is midway so high up on your readlist?

This reads like she knows mwb is scum and thus is surprised to see someone TRing him strongly. It's based on the idea that scum are more likely to catch on to things their buddies do as scummy because of insider knowledge of their alignment.

I kinda dig the RP it adds vibes

Not really. It just gives Pooky something to hide behind while he’s definitely capable of more. A successful town has everyone engaged and focused, so I think Pooky should just stop if he is town.

ah yes the engaged and focus townie police are here to make sure everyone is focused and on-task. excellent. its page 11 now, definitely time to start super tryharding, because the more you try the better you play.

This isn't as strong as the last point, but this interaction feels extremely forced. Was she trying to mock mwb or agree with him? I think whatever the case, she had trouble trying to find a good way to respond to her buddy and posted something that sends a very mixed message of her intent.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah sure? Idk
I'm not seeing any of her posts as townie, but I'm just somewhat cautious because well you know.

I don't want to confbias, but thinking about the fact Tay flipped traitor, this does make sense as a post by scum not wanting to damn their traitor to the gallows (is gallows also taboo now?) immediately

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly I'm not sure what is so off about Bell. I just voted him originally because I didn't like some of his positions and not because he was "off".

Midway can you honestly read what Bell's said this game and say he reads like the same Avenger we knew in FGO? That's what we mean when we say he's off.

Pedit: Bulge in the dethy Fakegod explicitly states there are 4 cops of questionable sanity and that the traitor is a rolecop and the word traitor (it's capitalized) links to the wiki page for the same. When asked if the wiki rules for normal traitor apply to this person I was told I don't know that.

The words at the end of this post fry my brain. What does "I was told I don't know that" communicate? can one of the living members of the dethy help me parse what this meant?

Well I was very surprised when Avenger turned out to be Bell because that was not how I expected him to talk like based on other games. Just seems like a good excuse to call him scum similar to some putting burden on peta but more.

Can you expand on this/make it a little clearer what you're saying?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Probably bell, peta, and DS, out of the actual reads

Are these all strong Town/Scumreads or strong general reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

Strong reads in general. Bell and Peta are townreads, DS is a scumread.

[fferyllt]

The words at the end of this post fry my brain. What does "I was told I don't know that" communicate? can one of the living members of the dethy help me parse what this meant?

Fakegod explicitly told Syr that we don't know what kind of traitor is in the dethy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool.

BTW just gonna set up a little scavenger hunt. Anyone is welcome to try and find the thing I think is reasonably scummy from myself, but whoever finds the right thing will get special attention. Could be good or bad attention. Multiple guesses are allowed but don't abuse them.

[DiamondSentinel]

my ordered to-read list rn is:

1. DS
   
2. Bulge
   
3. Cakez
   
4. Bell
   
5. Gamma
   
6. peta
   
7. midwaybear

here's a synopsis of DS's ISO:

Spoiler: this is long i boil it down below

• Unaware of mech info given from mod. Null.
  
• Votes Jake for having a lot of empty posts (i think)?
  
• Objects to pooky's RPing and implies it's scum motivated in 256
  
• Scumreads
  Taylor
  for buddying
  
• Claims he has some ability to read me... I mean, we played together plenty back in the day, but this feels a bit presumptuous?
  DS, can you elaborate a bit on you feeling like you have good insight into my alignment in general? How do you approach reading me in particular?
  
  
• Bemoans lots of fluffy content/rvs and not being able to get solid reads.
  
• Outs a bunch of reads in 309. a trend im noticing is DS does a lot of bemoaning people who aren't making juicy content so he cant read them. he did it with jake and pooky, he does it here with syryana.
  
• doubling down on the townread of fferyllt despite the meta being wrong is interesting. the reason given is very surface-level. not that that always means fake, just easy if it is fake.
  
• more reads in 720. "highposting" from midway pings his radar (notable, midway was nulltown 14 hours earlier in 309). saying they dont like bell and like the wagon even less feels a little bit both-sidesy. like options are being left open. apparently wary of peta as well.
  
• one thing i'll say in DS' favor at this point is that he's very forthcoming with his thoughts on the game.
  
• asking Something_Smart to post more fits in with that trend i noticed
  
• lists their preferred votes as Jake and then peta, cabd, and maybe Syr. talks about wanting to pressure people more than actually execute them. adds tammy to the pile of people worthy of execution. worth noting Syr was nulltown earlier, but now something bothers him.
  
• in 928 they ONCE AGAIN bemoan there not being enough content in certain slots (Syr and Tammy)
  
• blah blah blah okay

okay so main takeaways:
for someone who spends so much time bemoaning the lack of readable content various slots are giving, i think it's actually a point in his favor that DS is frequently giving his own thoughts on the game and its players.
that said, so many of his reads are marred with "but im not sure because people aren't giving enough content to read". and in fact, that often seems to be the

basis

of some of his reads. this is underlined by him saying Jake is the only read he's certain of.
there's a part of me that feels like his misremembering fferyllt and using meta on her that didnt exist is... something.

i'd really like DS to answer this question which is a response to post 275.

DS, can you elaborate a bit on you feeling like you have good insight into my alignment? How do you approach reading me in particular?

Ultimately my reads are perpetually feels based. I think that the "logic" that so often permeates this site is a facade to hide behind and try to make this game seem like it's any more than just a dartboard until someone gets flustered.

As such, I just look at people until I get a gut read on them and then I push them. You are one such person I can get a decent gut read for and feel confident about.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t particularly like all the vote’s raining down on Taylor.

But then again I’m the paranoid one in our dethy

lol
tbh if I wanted to spin off of this, Jake is naive (newer player), Syr is sane (at least between him and ffer), and ffer is insane (the level of in-joke code she has been speaking this game is why)

Voting at this point would be very unnatural for anyone to do. That's a weird unvote to me.

Why would voting be unnatural? mwb seems to have been consistently shading the Taylor wagon

Tammy sorry if you've gone more in-depth somewhere already, but im wondering about your bell placement. from what I remember reading youve spent far more time elaborating on why bell is not town than why he is not full informed scum and I'm not sure I understand what's stopping you from scumbinning him. how set are you on the double traitor theory, or were you just wanting to put your thoughts out?

I literally just thought about a double traitor theory this morning when I was trying to figure out what the fork he’s doing here. (Although there was some talk in the neighborhood about possible setups Nd multiple deaths, but we decided against those.

Yesterday I wondered if the scum team knew of the existence of a traitor and thought that it possible everyone was searching for something. I was thinking about the setup because we have 17 players which would typically mean 4 scum but three scum plus one traitor doesn’t feel right, so this morning I thought maybe two?

I just don’t understand what bell is doing here if he’s town or scum.

So this gave me a chilling thought. We've been trying to think about how the dethy and 2 masonries would be balanced against 3 scum and a traitor, I just considered the idea of 3 scum and 2 traitors. Is that too crazy? I don't think it matters much, just wanted to put it out there.

That was probably intentional.

i can actually see taylor doing that because she's a massive shitposting troll

i find it less likely she does it when she's an actual traitor

y'all need to shut up, I was obviously trying to get Tayl0r to clarify without letting her know what I was looking for.

Okay Tayl0r if it wasn't an accident why did you do it then?

a) its fun
b) to ideally create some mud to make scums lives harder

I'm taking this as a verification that Taylor knew her partners.

[DiamondSentinel]

Do you want to start with where you four (hi syr ghost) settled, and then the two mini masonry groups can chime in, then?

right now one of my strong townreads is voting the other so I'm a little out of sorts.

We think Bell is strange. The strangeness has calmed down a little but he doesn't feel very present/engaged. I don't see how he moves from here into bet the farm town.

We agree that DS's scumhunting has been super shallow and at times very shaped by players asking his opinions about other players. As a town playstyle it looks ineffective.

I'm liking Nahdia's recent content a little better.

I'm still pondering Tayl0r's play and how it was considered by other players. The 2012 cohort schtick was essentially flagging the three players in the dethy who were making waves/should be elimed quickly imo.

Cakez and petapan pushed back on the characterization that we were impossible to read/interact with. Not sure that makes sense as scum interacting with their potential traitor.

@DS as town have you been especially accurate as a player in terms of hunting? I mostly iso meta’d you so I don’ t know how well you did in terms of accuracy.

I am no more accurate at town than most players were at the time, which is to say, dubiously so. Some people my reads are guaranteed wrong so I would assume the opposite of my initial position (none of them are in this game). Others tend to vary. I rarely lock or even strong!town scum, but I semi-often ignore them or sideline the conversation about them.

[Bell]

Why do you sound so confident then? If it was for pressure I could understand. But you seem like you think you have Nahdia pegged when I'm not nearly so certain.

[Gamma Emerald]

Am I the only person alone in this game.

What are the odds this is a townslip vs. faked?

I did some counting and by my calculations taylor is at E-2

UNVOTE:

Want some more of that sweet sweet conversation

Has taylor been pushing for jakescum in the hood?

No, she mentioned it once but that's kind of it.
She also pushed ffery-traitor talking to you!scum at one point

But mostly she was just trolling and saying things like "I'm not scum if i were scum I wouldn't be lurking" etc.

Note to self: Taylor self-metaing is scummy af

it's hard being lonely

I trust this post way less than the one Bell made

[DiamondSentinel]

Why do you sound so confident then? If it was for pressure I could understand. But you seem like you think you have Nahdia pegged when I'm not nearly so certain.

If you aren't confident and headstrong, then what use is it to even say anything?

[Bell]

If you're looking for the truth, confidence and headstrongness aren't necessary components. They can help you get your way, but the accuracy is in doubt. This sounds like a playstyle issue though.

If you're wrong on Nahdia, who's scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

No, she mentioned it once but that's kind of it.
She also pushed ffery-traitor talking to you!scum at one point

But mostly she was just trolling and saying things like "I'm not scum if i were scum I wouldn't be lurking" etc.

She did call the 2012 cabal a bunch of shitbags for scumreading her two games in a row though! She also accused us of not trying to engage with and/or sort her. Oh, and the things we scumread her for are disrespectful.

Even more reason to write off the 2012 group as town, whoever remains as unconfirmed anyway

btw the fake crumbs by cabd on page 70 were brilliant in retrospect

[Cabd]

btw the fake crumbs by cabd on page 70 were brilliant in retrospect

Wheels within wheels.

Praise me more~

[Cabd]

btw the fake crumbs by cabd on page 70 were brilliant in retrospect

Wheels within wheels.

Praise me more~

it's even better because syr's IRL last name is literally "Miller"