Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[Gamma Emerald]

my take is either scum are trying to rile up the conftowns to get them to look elsewhere or towns are making a mistake

who is riling us up?

DS rn, maybe others

[midwaybear]

Diamond is doubling down on all of this which seems like a scum strategy. However, as many have noted, it also seems very likely that this is the way he plays as town.

[Alisae]

Gamma - I... wish I had more. I haven't gained much on them, but this is really my last true gut read. Something doesn't sit right with me about them. I doubt that trying to come up with justification from the thread would work because my unconscious mind is not great.

I actually think this is the most important thing in those reads tbh

[DiamondSentinel]

Nahdia, you know how mafia players pretend like they know whats going on in the game completely but they actually don't?

people like me!

@Diamond

- what reads do you even have?

Big Dethy Room in the Sky - Locktown. Not allowed to touch those (as much as I'd love to, pertaining to Jake. Speaking of which, where's Jake? I just realized I've not been filled with seething annoyance for too long)
Bell - Null!Scum. Had a couple things here and there that I do not care much for.
Cabd - Scum. My gut has only gotten worse since the whole fiasco on day 1. Although there was something about a mason above? With a dethy, I don't believe that the set-up would have both a dethy and masons. Still, can someone explain later?
midwaybear - Null!town. I'm apprehensive about how readily he's agreeing with me, but I can't point to anything more worrisome.
Cakez - Null. Not a null in a "I can't read him", but a null in "it can go either way". Some stuff I really like, but his interactions with the dethy and a couple others. have been.... interesting.
S_S - Surprisingly null!town. one of my stronger towns, but I'm not putting anyone in actual town because that tier is reserved for haha funny dethy-land.
Alisae - Null. Don't like your fixation on me, but I can't scumread you for that. You're doing your job. Some stuff has rubbed me the wrong way, but hey, that applies to most.
peta - null (slight town leanings, but not null!town). Constant dry humor doesn't off-put me here, so that's good, but other than that, I've seen some things that make me scratch my head. Specifically that their iso is almost entirely questions with a couple of observations. Not much that they've personally postulated. Nothing worrisome, but I keep them on my mind.
Pooky - /shrug. Don't remember them posting aside from snarking and the D1 cringeRP.
Bulge - /shrug. This is what sparked this.
Gamma - I... wish I had more. I haven't gained much on them, but this is really my last

true

gut read. Something doesn't sit right with me about them. I doubt that trying to come up with justification from the thread would work because my unconscious mind is not great.
Nahdia - Still think they're scum.

this may be one of the worst readslists I've ever seen. literally NULL ON EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR A SR ON CONFTOWN

Cabd and SS are also masons

Yeah that was what I was talking about.

I don't believe that. I do not believe for a second that there is one pair of masons with the dethy, much less two.

I also don't believe that you guys are all four scum because that's stupid. What I

do

believe is that this is a super "fun" inside joke (or this game is secretly bastard).

what??? your solution to this is either the world's dumbest mafia inside joke or FG (one of the most tenured and respected mods on MS) is breaking site rules????

I explained why I have a lot of null-reads on the town part, and then I have 2 strong scum-reads.

As for my solution to it, the FG breaking site rules was dumb, but I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke. There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

[Cabd]

The thing is, he's aware of the mason claim but scumreads me despite it. Okay, I can buy that.

But if that's the case he needs to be scumreading S_S as well.

[DiamondSentinel]

The thing is, he's aware of the mason claim but scumreads me despite it. Okay, I can buy that.

But if that's the case he needs to be scumreading S_S as well.

I don't

need

to do anything.

[SirCakez]

Holy shit Cakez scumpool in 2377 was Me, Nahdia, and Bulge
that is so scummy wtf????

why? you three were looking terrible at that point.

@Alisae response?

I'm holding you accountable for being terribly wrong

Can you talk to me about Nahdia and Bulge town because I am really not seeing it

[midwaybear]

I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke.

Why can't they just be lying? I do not think it is a joke at this point even if it may have been likely before.

[Alisae]

As for my solution to it, the FG breaking site rules was dumb, but I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke. There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

We don't know what scum's power is so you can't judge how balanced it is

[SirCakez]

Diamond is doubling down on all of this which seems like a scum strategy. However, as many have noted, it also seems very likely that this is the way he plays as town.

he does, speaking from past experience
which is why I'm hesitant to just call it scum

[Something_Smart]

I don't

need

to do anything.

If you want to be self-consistent you do

[Alisae]

Holy shit Cakez scumpool in 2377 was Me, Nahdia, and Bulge
that is so scummy wtf????

why? you three were looking terrible at that point.

@Alisae response?

I'm holding you accountable for being terribly wrong

Can you talk to me about Nahdia and Bulge town because I am really not seeing it

how is nahdia's recent posting scum indicative?
how is bulge recent content scum indicative?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

the dethy are not conf-town by game design - the mod has no way to know that the traitor in the dethy would self-immolate like that on d1.

the other 2 mason pairs are essentially 1 person each since killing 1 lover also kills the other - it would count as 2 conf-town players in game design not 4.

[Tammy]

My impression of his posting is that he is just posting. A lot of it doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t seem to be even following a pattern or even the game.

how is this not town indicative in this case?

2012 me would have taken this as being town indicative

Been wrong about that kind of reasoning several Times

He might be town, this might very well make him town, it definitely makes him a player I do not trust or understand. Maybe he is actually twtbaw, but I’m setting him to the side for right now.

Petit: I liked your point on his gamma response.

[SirCakez]

Holy shit Cakez scumpool in 2377 was Me, Nahdia, and Bulge
that is so scummy wtf????

why? you three were looking terrible at that point.

@Alisae response?

I'm holding you accountable for being terribly wrong

Can you talk to me about Nahdia and Bulge town because I am really not seeing it

how is nahdia's recent posting scum indicative?
how is bulge recent content scum indicative?

Well for starters I'd argue that both only becoming active when all of the conftown came out is scum indicative in itself
Both have been essentially attacking and trying to discredit the other people in the not-conftown pool who suspect them when it should be pretty obvious to both of them why they are suspected
(i;e Bulge's whole "only conftown are interacting with me" thing even though that was not true as evidenced by my discussion with him)
I can point to more specific things hold on

[Alisae]

Holy shit Cakez scumpool in 2377 was Me, Nahdia, and Bulge
that is so scummy wtf????

why? you three were looking terrible at that point.

@Alisae response?

I'm holding you accountable for being terribly wrong

Can you talk to me about Nahdia and Bulge town because I am really not seeing it

how is nahdia's recent posting scum indicative?
how is bulge recent content scum indicative?

Well for starters I'd argue that both only becoming active when all of the conftown came out is scum indicative in itself
Both have been essentially attacking and trying to discredit the other people in the not-conftown pool who suspect them when it should be pretty obvious to both of them why they are suspected
(i;e Bulge's whole "only conftown are interacting with me" thing even though that was not true as evidenced by my discussion with him)
I can point to more specific things hold on

Do you think Diamond is town?

[fferyllt]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

[SirCakez]

was really hoping DS would give a better answer on my question about his meta on me. as it stands it was basically a dodge.

Nahdia isn't here rn, be my scheherazade~

hello hello.
bulge's content this game:

Spoiler:

• votes DS for his anger at RVS being a bit performative. i did take note of that as well!
  
• i kinda liked 1122 for some reason. it's bold.
  
• starts asking lots of mech questions to clarify the dethy traitor thing. personally i find mechspeccing to be where a scum thrives, but i cant deny the town perspective here. he's asking questions that scum would obviously already know the answer to.
  
• his early d2 is pretty defensive, though not necessarily in a bad way? it feels strange to me that bulge would be surprised to be in PoEs in a way that i almost wanna say is towny.
  
• gets much more into sorting territory by 2679. i like this post and the posts that follow. the continual followup on questions he's asked makes the sorting look genuine.
  
• i feel 2806 deep in my soul

bulge feels towny to me.

As I said earlier I didn't like this post because it felt like a really long performative way to say "I TR Bulge because he's active and trying to play"

-Bell and

Nahdia

made scummy catchups that I've talked about a lot

you have never talked about my catchups as far as I can see in your ISO.

This was just not true although I could accept Nahdia just missing my post about it

Spoiler:

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

but you specifically called me out as someone you can read well!!!!! why!? explain yourself!

Because my gut reads are pretty accurate, especially against you. See: Soccer Spirits. (And before you point it out, yes, I was scum, but it was multiball)

so... one game. from four years ago. in which you were scum.

4. Confusion at this odd town bloc for, what I’ve seen, nearly non-existent reasons. I’ve yet to see a solid reason why Cabd’s behavior is town motivated, and I also fail to see that for Tammy and Syr, yet a fair few of my more confident town reads (specifically you, although that’s dropping faster than I’d like) proclaim that they are acting consistently with a town mentality.

Earlier you said that you're not good at asking questions. Last night I took a look at Cyberpunk, which we were both in, and you seem fine at asking questions? I know that not everything's going to be the same; I'm not myself. But what I noticed in that game was how direct you were with people where my overall impression is that you're talking a bit about people but not talking directly to them in the same way.

I was also going to comment on what seemed like a bit of a fixation with cabd, syry, ffery, and me, which were names that were given to you to talk about, and there you had your hands in a more variety of people. BUT I reread your iso this morning and my impression of what you were doing in that regard is not what you are actually doing, which just goes to show that I really need to get started on reading this game when I can focus on it and not while I'm trying to work. Anyway i want to leave this impression here to come back to if I still feel this way when I've reread.

BUT I wanted to ask you about this. When you say town bloc here are you just referring to the group of us town reading each other to varying degrees or do you think we're acting in some type of block?

I've changed a lot in 3 years personally. I'm not remotely the same person I was then (definitely for the better). But aside from that, I was also very familiar with those players. I know 3 people on this playerlist (well 4 if you count Nahdia but they aren't posting much).

I genuinely think that you guys are acting as a bloc of sorts mainly out of some very odd meta-buddying and I'm not a huge fan of that remotely.

in this post you point out you've changed a lot in three years. i'm still a bit baffled at 275 despite this exchange.

like, yall, to drive this point home,

this

is Soccer Spirits mafia. it is one of my first non-newbie games ever on the site: notice it starts like 3 weeks after my join date. THAT'S your basis for feeling like you can gut read me well!? for getting peeved that i wasnt posting more because you could were so certain to read me right?????????

and actually, while you were mafia in that game, you were red mafia. meaning you didn't know for sure it was multiball, though you did speculate there was 3p in the scumthread.

WAIT HOLD ON. YOU SCUMREAD ME THAT GAME.

your read on me THAT game was "nahdia is a noob that is posting a lot but it's all filler so i cant read them". and then you decided i was scum!

i was town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

your evidence for being able to gutread me well is a game where you never read me correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if im upset is because now i have to tease out whether in this instance you're either delusional and arrogant or just scum who made a throwaway line and then wasnt able to back it up.

your evidence for being able to gutread me well is a game where you never read me correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One where I never read you correctly

in the thread

i checked the scumthread too!!!

like, maybe you did townread me there.... in a game you were scum. but you never SAID so. so how is THIS your basis for feeling you have a good radar on me. am i being unreasonable here? i really dont think i am!!!

can one or more of the conftowns please tell me if this is something? or am i just wasting my time here?

am i being unreasonable here? i really dont think i am!!!

What exactly are you arguing?

ill quote the whole exchange and then try to summarize:

Spoiler: quotes snipped for relevancy/redundancy

Ooh a pagetop.

Anyways, I'm mostly just gonna go to the backline until Nahdia posts more. I can read them fairly well.

i'd really like DS to answer this question which is a response to post 275.

DS, can you elaborate a bit on you feeling like you have good insight into my alignment? How do you approach reading me in particular?

Ultimately my reads are perpetually feels based. I think that the "logic" that so often permeates this site is a facade to hide behind and try to make this game seem like it's any more than just a dartboard until someone gets flustered.

As such, I just look at people until I get a gut read on them and then I push them. You are one such person I can get a decent gut read for and feel confident about.

I was hoping for a little more than this. You called me out as someone you think you can definitely get a confidant read. That suggests you feel you have a pretty reliable meta on me. Why? What's that meta based on? You don't need to go into excruciating detail if you'd rather not list all of what you feel my tells are, but what are the general things that make me easier to get a gut read for you?

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

but you specifically called me out as someone you can read well!!!!! why!? explain yourself!

Because my gut reads are pretty accurate, especially against you. See: Soccer Spirits. (And before you point it out, yes, I was scum, but it was multiball)

so... one game. from four years ago. in which you were scum.

-snip-

in this post you point out you've changed a lot in three years. i'm still a bit baffled at 275 despite this exchange.

like, yall, to drive this point home,

this

is Soccer Spirits mafia. it is one of my first non-newbie games ever on the site: notice it starts like 3 weeks after my join date. THAT'S your basis for feeling like you can gut read me well!? for getting peeved that i wasnt posting more because you could were so certain to read me right?????????

and actually, while you were mafia in that game, you were red mafia. meaning you didn't know for sure it was multiball, though you did speculate there was 3p in the scumthread.

WAIT HOLD ON. YOU SCUMREAD ME THAT GAME.

your read on me THAT game was "nahdia is a noob that is posting a lot but it's all filler so i cant read them". and then you decided i was scum!

the overall point im driving here is that i think DS' original post, 275 is unsubstantiated filler. there is in fact no evidence DS has provided that he has any ability to read me well, so the idea that town!DS would make that post feels less likely to me.

This whole thing (while DS was being about it) read like a huge overreaction

[Cabd]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

Where a kid can be a kid?

[SirCakez]

Holy shit Cakez scumpool in 2377 was Me, Nahdia, and Bulge
that is so scummy wtf????

why? you three were looking terrible at that point.

@Alisae response?

I'm holding you accountable for being terribly wrong

Can you talk to me about Nahdia and Bulge town because I am really not seeing it

how is nahdia's recent posting scum indicative?
how is bulge recent content scum indicative?

Well for starters I'd argue that both only becoming active when all of the conftown came out is scum indicative in itself
Both have been essentially attacking and trying to discredit the other people in the not-conftown pool who suspect them when it should be pretty obvious to both of them why they are suspected
(i;e Bulge's whole "only conftown are interacting with me" thing even though that was not true as evidenced by my discussion with him)
I can point to more specific things hold on

Do you think Diamond is town?

I lean that way more than others in the POE pool at the moment, so yes. I think he has major foot-in-mouth syndrome and it comes off scummily.

[Tammy]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

This is literally the thought that was going through my mind right now lol

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

obviously I have doubts about everyone I mentioned, and then some. If my intention was to throw shade, what good would it do to not make any conclusions? When you're looking at my process, are you looking in iso?

peta's first post of d2, 2 pages into the phase. this post, oddly enough, bears striking similarities to Bell's latest reads which.... I don't know what to make of that

are you trying to claim there's a problem with me having a start of day list trying to close out the game via PoE when we had 3 conftown and several strong townreads

also this doesnt really read to me as "questioning me" so much as defending yourself in the form of a question

i mean that's kind of the point of throwing shade, though, isn't it, you don't attack people too strong but this is a position where it's beneficial to scum to start instilling doubts about as many people as possible because options fr votes are severely limited. in concert with the rest of your post where you accuse people of throwing shade at you without engaging you or w/e, of course i'm gonna take that as critical toward me. and you drop the conclusion of "idk what to say about this post rn but like when are we yeeting bell?" which is a fairly fuckin gross statement given i see basically no rationale for it

trying to argue a different between "questioning" you and "defending myself in the form of a question" is just nitpicking.

do you really think I'm in any position right now to be instilling doubts?? i havent done shit of consequence this game, and I don't have any strong leads. why is my scum catchup tactic to come in and shoot a bunch of spitballs at everyone voting me? your logic doesnt make sense, and even less so if you claim to be reading my process. nobody except conftown has engaged me this phase. plenty of you, however, have expressed interest in voting me. it's the difference between trying to solve a gamestate and trying to push a gamestate. no wagon has formed on me because it would be a shit wagon. but a lot of people want everyone to know they'd be okay with it if it came to it! what's that called again when you try to covertly suggest that someone is scummy without pushing it uhhhhh

as for the bell thing, i have reasons for scumreading him outside of that singular post of his which I haven't gotten to yet. this is also something I thought was quite clear.

*at everyone PoEing me

no wagon has formed on me because it would be a shit wagon.

lmao nah

it would have been when i had 30 fucking posts

these are the kind of Bulge posts I dislike
he's doing this whole "I am being scumread/POEd for my low activity woe is me this is not fair" act and it's not logical at all.

[SirCakez]

I think I am also a little confbiased on these though? Which is why I'd love input from people who TR the two

[DiamondSentinel]

I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke.

Why can't they just be lying? I do not think it is a joke at this point even if it may have been likely before.

Lying, joking. What difference is there at this point.

As for my solution to it, the FG breaking site rules was dumb, but I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke. There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

We don't know what scum's power is so you can't judge how balanced it is

Fine. Let's get into set-up spec. FakeGod does not design set-ups around night actions. (See: Fakegod V. Antihero, mainly, but a couple others. The former is my main experience with him). For a game with 8 out of 17 players to be conf!town, scum would have to have

very

significant power and/or multiple nightkills. The former goes against FG's design philosophy, and do I doubt that he's switched it up now. Plus, the theme is pretty clearly leading towards investigative/low night abilities. As for the latter, the scum team got one kill last night. Sure, it might be an X-shot night-kill and they saved it or our "doctor pair" blocked it, but I doubt this doctor is a thing (although I do somewhat suspect we have a doctor. I'm just waiting for a real claim).

Anyways

, I doubt that we're dealing with that high of a power level in this game. It's not in FakeGod's nature to design that.

[Cabd]

Holy fuck.

It's like a funhouse mirror.