mystery box of silver 10: neighborhood (this is done)

[Titus]

Plusjoy townfirmed shelly.
MM is a mason.

Time for more VCA tomorrow. I won't be here as much either.

[mastina]

It's most likely a troll option. I don't see it coming into play. We obviously don't expect you to use it. All three of us share a neighborizer ability and are cleared not members of the Army to each other. mastina was really adamant about you being trustworthy, so here we are.

^Can confirm, Titus and Nero both thought that if we targeted you, you might think we're scum and I had to push that, no, you wouldn't, and that, yes, we should synchronize up our two groups via this neighborhood.

[mastina]

There's 5 group scum. Everyone else is explicitly town aligned but not town.

Worth mentioning; we also know that the scum group this game is, indeed, the King Doris Donatello army. They're down Gamma, so there's four of them left alive.

Butyeah, remember when superbowl9 said that you received a PM that had a name in it, with a link to a PT that has your roles?

Remember my responses to this?

whats your role name in the pm?

GOLIATH GOUTHWITS HEALTH INTERNS

Story checks out.

whats your role name in the pm?

Is that for me?? Nod told me I was a GOLIATH [something, something, something] and I said I won't be outing the rest of it for <reasons>. Role description though was in the mod's opening post inside the PT. In other words, I wasn't told my alignment or my abilities in my role PM. Just the name and a link to the PT.

Again: story checks out.

The reason I knew your story checked out is because our role PMs work the same way.

I received a role PM titled, "Welcome to the Henry P. Jurgenssen Society!". Said PM had no words, just a link to our PT, where things were explained.

We figured Gamma was scum on D1 because he wanted to be neighborized, when neighborize is one of our powers (we figured he had TMI from the scum).
Also, because we know about one of the key investigatives in the game (haven't read the game thread yet so dunno if that's been fullclaimed), we can indeed verify it as a role in the game and its presence is why I thought that April's investigation claim was a scumclaim. (That, coupled with April hard-defending Gamma, flipped scum, and Morning Mage, who is hard-spewed as scum, too. So basically, April's at the "three strikes, yer out!" point of hard-defending two scum and claiming an investigative unlikely to be in the game, which Titus said in our PT even faked a guilty on her. Faked a guilty, claimed an investigative unlikely to be in the game, hard-defended two scum, = April is scum here.

[mastina]

NorweiganboyEE is conftown.

^This, and I feel like it's a town ability.

Overnight, Titus and I did some work on our readslists--part of that readslist work was me evaluating my work on Norwegian and realizing that he was actually obvtown.

But the scum wouldn't have known that, overnight, the push for Norwegian would've died. They had no way of knowing that I, a strong active vocal town player, would reverse my read and hard-defend the slot.

If scum were forced to reveal a player as town, they would probably choose someone who was already widely seen as obvtown.

But Norwegian was widely seen as scum.

And town wouldn't have known Norwegian would be defended D2, town would think Norwegian was a likely lynch candidate D2--making the public reveal probably a town investigative.

Town investigative publicly revealing a player as town + the town investigative we know about + our faction's ability to create trackers = April's investigative claim is even MORE suspect, because we already have three confirmed town investigatives and April's a claimed fourth, who we happen to know is fakeclaiming at that.

[mastina]

1- Let's first agree "You are confirmed not to be Army" is NOT the same as "You are confirmed to be TOWN=ALIGNED". That's for starters.

I mean, technically speaking, we're not town-aligned and if we did get 7 points, the town as well as the scum and as well as you would all lose--none of us want that though because who the fuck would want that?

BUT.

If all members of King Doris Donatello's army are eliminated and we don't get four points, the game doesn't continue--we lose.

So if we got 7 points, in that sense, we would be anti-town, but

in all other circumstances

, we are NOT classified as threats to the town.

We come back as members of the Henry P Jurgenssen society to an alignment cop.

We may not be, strictly speaking, town aligned, but we are NOT threats to the town and our win condition is extremely town-friendly: we can create this neighborhood, get information through contracts (maybe), our N2 ability is a doc save of sorts, we can hand out trackers (Menalque was our N1 tracker hand-out, obviously), we have information that if shared with the town is incredibly town-friendly, we needed to guess scum D1, we need to be together on the lynch of scum and not on the lynch of town, and we need to get nightkilled by the scum, among others.

These are all objectives that overlap with the town's wincon, these are all things that help the town, so helping the town will help us win, but we are, technically speaking, in spite of being incredibly town-friendly, not EXPLICITLY town-aligned.

That having been said

--I think you know me well enough, Almost50, to know that I'll treat just about any 3p as if I am town, and this is the perfect one for me to do just that. I am treating it as if I am a mason with Titus and Nero Cain, who can hand out tracks, and who can give out a N2 protection, and has information about the scum and one town role.

So while we might not explicitly be town-aligned in theory, in practice, for all intents and purposes, we are.

2- Why are you using the neighborizer to explain the Motion Detector result when you claim it's a group thing and cannot be tracked?

This is something Titus needed to ask schadd_ about as we did not know before-hand.

3- The points system is weird, but the game already reminds me much of Gistou, so I'll take that with a grain of salt

I mean, our point system is a much better iteration of the 3p system than the last MBOS Large, and I feel like it was handled well.

4- How did you get a point from "guessing" there's scum between Gamma/Norwee specifically? And did you get another point from the Gmma wagon?

We were required to compile a list by the end of D1 of two people that we guessed would have at least one scum in it. I submitted {Gamma, Norwegian}. Gamma was scum, so we got one point.

We don't get a point immediately from being together on the Gamma wagon--but if we are all together on every scum wagon and no more than one town wagon, we get two points from that.

5- So, you get a TOTAL of 2 points if you avoid TWO miseliminations and be on TWO scum eliminations? Just 2??

Just two, but again, we only need four to win, and we've got multiple ways to get to that given we got one from D1 and are on track to get said two points as well.

6- What "4" should be NK'd?

It's us three--we get four points if all three of us are nightkilled, and get points (but not as many) for two killed and one killed.

7- Did you hand out a Tracker ability already?? (Don't tell me to whom if you did)

The Mena flip should make it obvious enough not only that it was yes, but who as well.

8- I don't get the "We can auto protect someone not us and they get to determine the d3 lynch. Everyone else votes on a bp." Can you please clarify these two points?

Basically, we submit the name of one player N2.
That player gets to choose who dies D3.
Everyone else in N3 gets to choose one player to receive a 1x bulletproof.
Think kind-of like a weird variant on a Beloved Princess, but also a night-skipper. The handing out of bulletproofs means N3 is effectively skipped, to compensate for D3 being skipped, or so I'd assume that's the design intent.

9- Don't you fins it a bit odd the mod tells you te number of scum, and the exact role and modifier of Plusjoyed?

Not at all. This fits with us being a 3p in the same fashion as the 3p from the first game, except not removed from the gamethread and not as anti-town. (To reiterate, while I am playing this as if I am town-aligned, and our faction has many many pro-town facets to it, we are technically speaking, strictly speaking, not inherently town-aligned and thus us having information of this nature isn't to be unexpected.)

10- Is it ALSO mod-confirmed that "Everyone else is explicitly town aligned but not -necessarily- town." or is that your own conclusion?

It is confirmed by the mod, tho with some odd wording of sorts.

11- Why would there be a "group Lyncher" on sb specifically?

I'd assume to discourage us from working with you, encourage us to eliminate an explicitly pro-town 3p and try to keep us from being more town-inclined. To give us the option, if we were so inclined, to want to be more antitown, as it were.

I dunno about Titus or Nero, but I for one am more in favor of winning through protownness.

12- If you have the option to win while everyone else loses you are explicitly NOT Town, but you "can win with Town if you voluntarily leave with 4 pts". What guarantees you don't go for the full exclusive win?

Because,
1: That would be unfun.
2: That would be a dick move.
3: That would be harder to do.
4: That would be thoroughly unsatisfying.
5: It's in my nature to want to cooperate.
6: When I am 3p and not explicitly mutually exclusive from winning from town, I will try my damnedest to win with the town.
7: Even if I WERE mutually exclusive from winning with the town, as a 3p I still try to help the town ANYWAY, wincon be damned.

13- You don't want me to self-sacrifice for you, do you?

I mean, would help us, but isn't inherently needed.

[mastina]

Also, is your "guessing between Gamma/Norwee" the reason why Norwee was publicly confirmed not Army?

Nope, that was not us. Or if it was, the mod certainly didn't tell us that it was us--which seems unlikely.

[mastina]

Ugh. Really, MM as the mason. :/ I have a lot of work to do.

Ah.

So do I, then.

Morning Mage's twilight outburst I guess makes sense as being the third mason tho.

MM and PlusJoyed were both hard-scumreads of mine, tho, so this does require reevaluation on my end.

[mastina]

I would also much appreciate it if you didn't out MM in public until they decide to.

I was planning on saying Morning Mage's twilight outburst came from scum, but knowing where it

really

comes from, not that hard for me to "lie" (because knowing the info, it's not really a lie, now, is it?) and say that the outburst was actually incredibly town and thus justify a reversal of read there.

[mastina]

norwee is scum this game
i'll do a pbpa or whatever but it boils down to opportunistic wagon hopping and quite possibly the most awkward buddying-distancing combo to gamma i've ever seen

Btw.
Thoughts on GoldenParadox being the town role that revealed Norwegian?

[mastina]

So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

Btw this looks like TMI given we know there's PlusJOYED's investigative role.

[mastina]

does anyone else feel like an ascetic claim is really out of place here?

Nah, it goes well with Loyal/Disloyal and Motion orientated roles like MD/Tracker.

By the way April is in for a nasty surprise.

Almost50 knows what I'm referring to here, but I don't think it's something that should be made public yet.

The nasty surprise I am referring to is actually twofold.
The first, is that Menalque wasn't a Tracker originally--he was made one by us, because that's one of our abilities.
The second, is this:

So, which of you guys actually targeted me?? Put another way, if I had a WATCHER on me, whom would they have seen visiting me??

Our neighborize doesn't use a particular person to target. It cannot be tracked. It's submitted by all three of us.

We got this confirmed by the mod.

So what does that mean?

Titus did not visit last night.

Because Titus did not visit last night, unless another player claims to have visited last night,

April Ludgate's claimed "sensed motion" result is a lie

.
And therefore, April Ludgate is caught on not one front but TWO fronts, two ways his claim is flawed.

April saw the tracker flip and PlusJoyed's claim and thought his claim would slot right in, but he made two mistakes, not realizing Menalque was a VT and that the tracker flip was due to us making him one, and not realizing that Titus's action didn't count as a visit.

Thus.

Yes.

April is caught scum here.

[Almost50]

Town investigative publicly revealing a player as town + the town investigative we know about + our faction's ability to create trackers = April's investigative claim is even MORE suspect, because we already have three confirmed town investigatives and April's a claimed fourth, who we happen to know is fakeclaiming at that.

I beg to differ on this one. I think MD makes sense to get false guities on VT claims that you hand Tracker ability to. Also, NN id confirmed Town-aligned 3P, so your only valid point is April defending Gamma which is something I myself did.

[mastina]

Btw, another detail:
We are informed of the disloyal alignment cop's target.
So we knew the disloyal alignment cop targeted shellyc the moment D2 started.

[mastina]

So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

Btw this looks like TMI given we know there's PlusJOYED's investigative role.

does anyone else feel like an ascetic claim is really out of place here?

Nah, it goes well with Loyal/Disloyal and Motion orientated roles like MD/Tracker.

By the way April is in for a nasty surprise.

Almost50 knows what I'm referring to here, but I don't think it's something that should be made public yet.

The nasty surprise I am referring to is actually twofold.
The first, is that Menalque wasn't a Tracker originally--he was made one by us, because that's one of our abilities.
The second, is this:

So, which of you guys actually targeted me?? Put another way, if I had a WATCHER on me, whom would they have seen visiting me??

Our neighborize doesn't use a particular person to target. It cannot be tracked. It's submitted by all three of us.

We got this confirmed by the mod.

So what does that mean?

Titus did not visit last night.

Because Titus did not visit last night, unless another player claims to have visited last night,

April Ludgate's claimed "sensed motion" result is a lie

.
And therefore, April Ludgate is caught on not one front but TWO fronts, two ways his claim is flawed.

April saw the tracker flip and PlusJoyed's claim and thought his claim would slot right in, but he made two mistakes, not realizing Menalque was a VT and that the tracker flip was due to us making him one, and not realizing that Titus's action didn't count as a visit.

Thus.

Yes.

April is caught scum here.

Btw, another detail:
We are informed of the disloyal alignment cop's target.
So we knew the disloyal alignment cop targeted shellyc the moment D2 started.

Read these, Almost50. They're important for why I am so sure that April is fakeclaiming scum here.

[Almost50]

norwee is scum this game
i'll do a pbpa or whatever but it boils down to opportunistic wagon hopping and quite possibly the most awkward buddying-distancing combo to gamma i've ever seen

Btw.
Thoughts on GoldenParadox being the town role that revealed Norwegian?

That wouldn't surprise me, and would probably limit the bussing -of Gamma- to just Chemist & DS

I would also like to point out that jjh is mechanically much more likely to be Town here. His Ascetic prevents you from neighborizing him or handing him a tracker, and April getting ni result on him is also an "uncertain guilty" which is an element in this series if I understand the signups thread declaration correctly. (Hard clears vs uncertain guilties). If I go by thyat I can also accept Norwee to be "hard cleared", although I am not exactly sure "everything" applies to this very game.

[Almost50]

So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

Btw this looks like TMI given we know there's PlusJOYED's investigative role.

You're conf-biased so hard. Plus isn't even a Cop! The way he claimed suggests a Fruit Vendor of sorts (I have yet to catch up on the new content from last night). Also this is how FL acts all the time as eithr alignment. Doesn't clear him (as he could be a GF) but doesn't implicate him in anyway.

[Almost50]

#60 (by mastina, above) is interesting!! When I asked the mod he said something along the lines of "A factional ability would be carried out by a specific player (ex: Scum factional NK)". This contradicts the confirmation you got from the mod. Now I need to know which is it? I can't ask him about YOUR action, so I said something like :Hypothetically speaking if OUR faction had a factional ability, would it be detected by a Tracker/Watcher/Voyeur/Motion Detector?". I even added "How would the Watcher see it? One player visiting the target or all 3 of us?", and I got the response mentioned above,

[mastina]

#60 (by mastina, above) is interesting!! When I asked the mod he said something along the lines of "A factional ability would be carried out by a specific player (ex: Scum factional NK)". This contradicts the confirmation you got from the mod. Now I need to know which is it? I can't ask him about YOUR action, so I said something like :Hypothetically speaking if OUR faction had a factional ability, would it be detected by a Tracker/Watcher/Voyeur/Motion Detector?". I even added "How would the Watcher see it? One player visiting the target or all 3 of us?", and I got the response mentioned above,

We were told that it wouldn't show up to anything Action Investigative--including motion detector.

Titus asked, "Does our hood trigger the motion detector.", and schadd_ answered with the above, that it wouldn't show up to anything action-investigative, which includes motion detector. That there wouldn't ever be evidence to anyone else that it happened except for the existence of the hood itself.

That's as close to an exact quote as I dare mention.

So schadd_ told us explicitly that the neighborize does not show up to an Action Investigative, including not showing up to a Motion Detector.

[Titus]

So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

Btw this looks like TMI given we know there's PlusJOYED's investigative role.

You're conf-biased so hard. Plus isn't even a Cop! The way he claimed suggests a Fruit Vendor of sorts (I have yet to catch up on the new content from last night). Also this is how FL acts all the time as eithr alignment. Doesn't clear him (as he could be a GF) but doesn't implicate him in anyway.

Plus is a Cop inventor.

We know this.

[Titus]

That wouldn't surprise me, and would probably limit the bussing -of Gamma- to just Chemist & DS

Don't forget Pickaxe Pete.

[Titus]

mastina, you had better be right on April. Otherwise, Math will make this game worse than it is.

[Almost50]

The best way I see to resolve April is to have a Tracker tracking him tonight. If you give Tracker to one of yourselves or ourselves that should be it. That's 6 candidates for you to choose from.

[Titus]

The best way I see to resolve April is to have a Tracker tracking him tonight. If you give Tracker to one of yourselves or ourselves that should be it. That's 6 candidates for you to choose from.

We want to give a tracker to someone who actually might do the nightkill. April won't.

[Almost50]

But we will see if he moves at all. If he is faking he is more likely a Goon here (why would a Scum PR take the risk??), so he doesn't go anywhere and claims to have a result and he's caught with his pants down.

ALSO, seriously I want that D3 ability so bad if we don't eliminate shelly today. shelly is confirmed Scum to me, regardless of how anynne else is reading her (and I reckon the shading is still done by her own faction members for distancing. If she ever flips at any point it's PLUS who gets all the blame and the true Scum will appear innocent)

[Titus]

Plus is confirmed town.

Wanting a d3 ability is not a reason to TR April.