Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[duppin]

that was bullshitting since I did care about dave and asked the mod to prod them
i cant have anything to work with if someone is MIA, also duppin is just venting instead of convincing plus because they lost

There was no bullshitting. You clearly implied on the last page that dave would vote with you even though he has not said so.

[shellyc]

i didnt imply anything???? that dave would vote with me
they both TR me and will vote with me

[shellyc]

i didnt imply it I just directly said it

both of them are going to vote with me unless dave suddenly changes his mind but with him being inactive idrt its likely

[shellyc]

I believe shelly is town as well actually. I have not played with her and most of the scumreads on her seems to be a bit biased on meta but the reads themselves seem to be a bit lackluster to me.
I think someone said it was suspicious of her to do pre flip reads but I disagree with this a lot actually - it is bad if she starts playing around pre flips, but expressing her thoughts on a potential flip is something I find to be a bit more towny albeit easy to fake as scum as well as it helps you set up your read progression in case you get a mislynch through. But the counter argument to that in this case is in my opinion that shelly has been all over the playerlist. I am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.

lmao

for all future scums: im a bad target to pocket

[duppin]

i didnt imply anything???? that dave would vote with me
they both TR me and will vote with me

Dave never said he was townreading you he also never said he would vote on me.
He said he thought your claim was more likely to be true in absence of hectics claim but then said he would evaluate hectics claim but hasnt done so yet

[shellyc]

i didnt imply anything???? that dave would vote with me
they both TR me and will vote with me

Dave never said he was townreading you he also never said he would vote on me.
He said he thought your claim was more likely to be true in absence of hectics claim but then said he would evaluate hectics claim but hasnt done so yet

didnt he drop the wall after hectic claimed or did i just mess up everything

let me also bring back up the time where I reaction tested by saying that confidence had something related to my role
HECTIC and DUPPIN started rolefishing by prompting me to answer and asking me about the role

[duppin]

I believe shelly is town as well actually. I have not played with her and most of the scumreads on her seems to be a bit biased on meta but the reads themselves seem to be a bit lackluster to me.
I think someone said it was suspicious of her to do pre flip reads but I disagree with this a lot actually - it is bad if she starts playing around pre flips, but expressing her thoughts on a potential flip is something I find to be a bit more towny albeit easy to fake as scum as well as it helps you set up your read progression in case you get a mislynch through. But the counter argument to that in this case is in my opinion that shelly has been all over the playerlist. I am pretty sure she has called out everyone for something at this point and has engaged with everyone. I have no idea if this is out of her scumrange or not but to me her play jsut comes across as coming from a town perspective.

lmao

for all future scums: im a bad target to pocket

Yes I thought you were town day 1 and I evne thought you were town yesterday as I just mentioned on the last page; I thought noraas behaviour towards you was scummy but I thought it could be due to noraa not wanting attention, now after having finished another game with noraa as scum and actually looking up the doggos game as well I am perfectly aware that she is just really awkward at bussing.
By the way I thought you would not ISO "confirmed scum"

[duppin]

i didnt imply anything???? that dave would vote with me
they both TR me and will vote with me

Dave never said he was townreading you he also never said he would vote on me.
He said he thought your claim was more likely to be true in absence of hectics claim but then said he would evaluate hectics claim but hasnt done so yet

didnt he drop the wall after hectic claimed or did i just mess up everything

Yes you messed up everything including your claim

let me also bring back up the time where I reaction tested by saying that confidence had something related to my role
HECTIC and DUPPIN started rolefishing by prompting me to answer and asking me about the role

Yes it makes so much sense for two scum partners to question a vague ass "reaction test". I love to call it a reaction test when I play poorly as well.

[shellyc]

hectic and duppin are so obvscum it hurts
they rolefished together
they pushed the narrative that mini/jackson are not t/t together
duppin pressured hectic early for a few posts but then randomly shitpushed saudade for no reason
duppin and hectic mostly broadly TR each other for not much reason

[shellyc]

By the way I thought you would not ISO "confirmed scum"

was just interested in how much you'd try and pocket me early game, for the postgame

[duppin]

hectic and duppin are so obvscum it hurts
they rolefished together

lol

they pushed the narrative that mini/jackson are not t/t together

Yes we definitely pushed this. I remember pushing this hard by saying this was a one off comment that everyone should ignore but I just wanted it for post game credit and I have never mentioned it since. Damn I really pushed that.

duppin pressured hectic early for a few posts but then randomly shitpushed saudade for no reason

I tried to push a policy wagon on hectic true, but it stopped since everyone else was opposed to it. It could be scum distancing, but the more likely conclusion is probably that it would be unlikely.
Also "randomly shitpushed Saudade for no reason" is a nice way to twist things.

duppin and hectic mostly broadly TR each other for not much reason

No I think our reads on each other have been rather elaborate actually. Also I was not really townreading hectic going into yesterday because he hadn't done anything since day 1, which I thought was weird given how he approached day 1.

[duppin]

By the way I thought you would not ISO "confirmed scum"

was just interested in how much you'd try and pocket me early game, for the postgame

There isn't even anything pockety about that post unless youre trying to imply that every townread is someone trying to pocket.

[shellyc]

im just gonna shut up so plus doesnt have 10 pages of spam to read an hour or so when he wakes up

[duppin]

Alright so how about we first go over noraas non sense read and stance towards shelly:

69-73: claims the probability of shelly rolling scum again is low
143: reacts to shellys push on her. Does not really take a stance on her push.
167: questions shelly standing up for mini. Says she might have found "two scums" this round (has not called shelly scum before this and does not vote on either player)
179: tries to push the idea of shelly/mini again when a TR is given on shelly.
210: responds to shellys meta read on her - says she has no finished town games
213: calls shellys reasoning bad
215: says what shelly just said looks bad
- While she never states that she is scumreading shelly at this point, she definitely seems to be suggesting the slot is suspicious

then people begin to question shelly and Jester/hectic pushes shelly as scum:

513: out of nowhere noraa decides to comment on shelly of all players with a really weird comment: "

Oh also one other thing before I go to bed. I wanna put a word in my my ex scum partner. Shelly plays a good scum game imo and if she's doing anything really scummy here(I haven't caught up yet so im not quite too sure if this applies), I would assume she's just playing a weird asf town game. Idk but that's my view on that after being her scum partner once and shallow meta diving her a bit afterwards

"
752: says shelly plays strange and that she does not understand her line of thinking ever. Says that shelly will be on her null list for a long time because she has a hard time figuring her out
966: i just remembered noraa mixes me and bugspray up here. More interesting is that she at this points claims shelly hasnt done anything alignment indicative so far.
approx from #966-#1017: some weird interactions between them, resulting in talk about signature and whatnot
- so what happened here is that while she initially seem to have scumread shelly the immediately backs down as soon as players begin to push on her

then shelly starts to push on Jackson insead:

1042: noraa calls out shellys push on jackson because she think it is suspicious for shelly to start a new wagon now that a wagon on Saudade is piling up. She pushes for a shelly/saudade scum team.
1047: Now she suddenly has a scumread on shelly but not on saudade. We know Saudade was town, we know she tried to push the idea that shelly was scum because of trying to "save" the wagon on Saudade.
We also know that she doesnt think shelly has done "anything alignment indicative" until this, so it makes no sense for her to push shelly as scum while not putting Saudade there as the read would have to be based on Saudade being scum.
1068: she says she believe the scum team from most scummy to least scummy is from redados > shelly > norwee/bugspray
- Okay so now she seems to be scumreading shelly again for very weird and illogical reasoning

but then this happens:

1161: she questions mundivore's vote on shelly and seems to be trying to defend shelly against a Mundivore's meta read on her.
1259, 1261, 1263, 1264, 1266, 1271: noraa goes out of her way to argue against the notion that her and shelly could ever be scum, she even tries to put a very slight townlean on redados for saying that they could not be together because she think its "townie" to believe that (?) (I also think this is very interesting is because she seems to be trying to entertain the idea that redados is more town but for that to make sense the natural vote for her would be on shelly, so for no apparent reason she throws this away pretty much immediately adn just goes back to "red so scummy")
1309: she pushes the idea that shelly and redados are the scum team and that they are the two most sus players
1340: norwee then votes on shelly; but then noraa questions it? she says she doesnt know and that shelly gives off scummy vibes no matter her alignment and she doesnt know what to think of her, while also in the very same post saying a post of her is something she did as scum in another game

and a bonus:
1483: shelly has called noraa scum all game long, but then her puts her at the bottom of her lim order. She never explained why and even when noraa asked about she responded to everything else noraa said but this reason being there was no logical or good explanation for this.

---
So what this shows is that noraa kept calling shelly scum when it was easy to do, but every time it people began to push shelly she started to question the push and defend it. She never once voted on her scum read and even at one point when she was cornering herself into shelly being her top scum she decided to go back on the slight townlead she had just given to justify voting on red over shelly.
She kept going back and forth between scumreading shelly only to null read her because "she hasnt done anything alignment indicative" and so on when people actually pushed on her.

Ironically shelly did the exact same thing - the pushed on noraa all day long but then when it started mattering (closer to deadline, had to settle on wagons) she put her at the bottom of her lim order for no reason whatsoever.

What makes Noraa's behaviour towards shelly even more indicative of being a scum pair is noraa's meta.
I just finished a game with her where she was scum where I ironically referred to the doggos game where she was scum with shelly for a very specific reason; because in the doggos game, in the game we jsut finished (mafiasunny) and in this game she is doing the exact same thing to her partner in all of them: throws shade at them when it matters yet always finds a reason not to vote and always try to carefully question the push on them. She always tries to find a way to justify not voting on someone she is scumreading.

[duppin]

throws shade at them when it matters yet always finds a reason not to vote and always try to carefully question the push on them.

throws shade at them when it does not matter yet always finds a reason not to vote when it matters*

[PlusJOYED]

not gonna lie this 1v1 hasn't really swayed me. I'm waiting to hear from dave
shelly likes to bus. I'm having hard time that she would take a risk defending dave there, but i suppose its possible.
dave's been pretty inactive, my read on him is still pretty shakey. I think if he's scum it's because he's not able to convince me he's town. So I need to hear from him.

[PlusJOYED]

like, a shelly/dave team is possible but I think in that scenario shelly is carrying the scumteam. show me dave can walk on his own and is town.

[duppin]

Plus why do you believe I am more likely to be scum?

[duppin]

Also Plus as hectic mentioned yesterday it is factual that shelly has lied several times. Do you believe that is more likely to be a towntell?

[PlusJOYED]

cuz shelly tracked you and I've had a gutread against you most the game. And like I think Shelly is more likely to be town than you based on her play this game.
The issue with the Duppin/Hectic team is hectic has been obvtown most of the game for me, but his claim doesn't fit with shelly.
The issue with Shelly/dave is Shelly appears pretty town to me, but dave has been null.

[PlusJOYED]

As for NKA, Uno clears things up for me.
Dave living is NAI cuz he's elimable or scum
Hectic is scum or if town wouldn't get targeted
Uno was kind of with me and pretty town
Shelly is either scum or if killed as tracker would end duppin
I ended the day with a duppin vote, so me living would point towards shelly scum I think or if hectic thought he could convince me. I also think my death would lean in towards pushing uno to vote duppin so I could see either way

I have duppin, hectic, and shelly pretty sorted but not dave.

[PlusJOYED]

on god shelly if your scum this game I'm never trusting you in mafia again unless I am inclined to do so mechanically or we're scumbuddies
like if im vig or investigative I'll target you every time

[duppin]

cuz shelly tracked you and I've had a gutread against you most the game. And like I think Shelly is more likely to be town than you based on her play this game.
The issue with the Duppin/Hectic team is hectic has been obvtown most of the game for me, but his claim doesn't fit with shelly.
The issue with Shelly/dave is Shelly appears pretty town to me, but dave has been null.

but what is this "gut" read based on? and why have you still not tried to solve my slot?

[duppin]

plus you also realise that shelly actually slipped right? she knew dave would vote with her for no apparent reason.
if you are town you then consider this comment to be aimed towards post game: you need to up your town game in mylo and stop dismissing/clearing players for what is generally considered to be scumtells no matter how strong your "gut" read is. you need to evaluate it and if you reach the same conclusion then it is what it is, but giving it a pass/ignoring all the things indicates that you dont have an open mind and have already settled. If there hasn't been a counterclaim then this is how you get mislimmed as town

[duppin]

I also hope you understand that if you are town then I am blaming you for a) not trying to evaluate my slot. You are sticking to a gut read based on nothing, dismissing every being said and reading the game state with confirmation bias; you believe shelly is town and you are twisting everything like that no matter how scummy it is and b) giving players pass for a lot of things you yourself said were questionable and even more things you just refuse to acknowledge